Leopard 1 Driver Training Cabs in Canada

[Ed Storey]

My records show ECC 116102 Leopard C1 modified to accept Drivers Training Cab - in 1995, Canada held 37.

[Robin Craig]

Ed,

Interesting that it is such a high number. I am, for my sins active on a FB group that believe it is a smaller number, all ex armoured corps types. Their anecdotal numbers peg at around 8 or less.

Their suggestion was that the number of greenhouses matched the number of turrets on the indoor miniature range as the hulls that gave up their turrets were the ones converted with the greenhouses.

This is interesting.

[Ed Storey]

To be honest so was I, although the list shows CFB Gagetown alone having 13.

[James P]

Something seems WAY off with the numbers, I never saw 13 cabs in Gagetown in the Armour School. Six seems to be the number stuck in my head, a regular gun tank would see the turret removed and used as a turret in the Indoor Miniature Range and the hull get cabbed. As for holding 37 cabs in the supply system , wow, that is a crazy number as Canada just plain did not buy all that many tanks to justify that number of trainer cabs. But that said the CF procurement system is a sick joke so who knows..........

[Grant Bowker]

Did the modification to accept the training cab in any way limit the use of the tank in the normal role with the turret? If the (modified) base tank hull was equally usable with either training cab or turret, it is possible that in a burst of enthusiasm it was decided to modify several times as many hulls as there were training cabs so that it would only be necessary to ship the driver training cab and not the entire tank to train in different locations.
This suggestion is made without any actual knowledge of the driver training adaptation of the Leopard to offer a possible explanation of what otherwise sounds illogical.

[Ed Storey]

I must admit to be baffled (more than normal) by the numbers. It is a known fact that Canada bought 127 Leopard 1A3s (C1) in 1978 yet the 1992 holding list only shows 114 with 77 being MBTs. So this leaves 13 accounted for yet by 1996 it is reported that the 114 C1s will be upgraded to C2.

Could there have been 13 parts and spares vehicles?

Leopard Holdings – 22 October, 1992

ECC 116101 Leopard C1 77

ECC 116102 Leopard C1 modified to accept Drivers Training Cab 37

Total Leopard C1 114

Here is a 1981 photo of a C1 with the Driver Training Cab.

S38-7 Leopard Driver Training Tank.jpg

[Robin Craig]

I suspect that the tanks and turrets and greenhouses have been cycled through a number of tanks during their life as a way to even out maintenance and wear.

If there was a way to account for the CFR of the tanks involved and see what maintenance / conversions was done then we would have our evidence.

To me that seems the only plausible way to explain the numbers.

What say others?

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

It is a known fact that Canada bought 127 Leopard 1A3s (C1) in 1978...

Ed, first off, great photo. Second, I don't know how to say this, but Canada did not purchase 127 Leopard C1's in 1978. What Canada purchased were 114 gun tanks (the C1), eight Leopard ARV's and six Leopard AVLB's, for a total of 128 Leopard AFV's.

Of these, 77 C1's, five ARV's and four AVLB's were kept in Germany, for a total of 86. 37 C1's, three ARV's and two AVLB's, for a total of 42, were sent to Canada. Deliveries began in August 1978 and were completed during July 1979.

These figures fit perfectly with your 1992 figures. The 37 C1's in Canada were the ones modified to take the cab. The 77 C1's in Germany were not. The 14 (not 13) unaccounted for vehicles were the ARV's and AVLB's.

Cheers,
Dan.

[James P]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

Did the modification to accept the training cab in any way limit the use of the tank in the normal role with the turret? If the (modified) base tank hull was equally usable with either training cab or turret, it is possible that in a burst of enthusiasm it was decided to modify several times as many hulls as there were training cabs so that it would only be necessary to ship the driver training cab and not the entire tank to train in different locations.
This suggestion is made without any actual knowledge of the driver training adaptation of the Leopard to offer a possible explanation of what otherwise sounds illogical.

Sorry for not really understanding your question but swapping out a turret for a cab is not going to call for "modifying" the hull and just made for a lot of work for old Bluebell. Pretty much a plug and play swap. I could be wrong but up to the mid 1990s the only folks with a cabbed tank(s) was/where the Armour School at Gagetown, post mid 90s maybe they (CF) moved a cab tank around but I doubt it. Mileages where always something that was watched and accounted for, the D&M tanks would obviously have more then the Gunnery Sqn tanks that lived a more pampered life.