How To: Restore a Morris or keep fit

[Mike K]

Off to the abrasive blaster in the 6x4 trailer for a chassis cleanup. The 4 wheels are finally apart after a lot of sweat and tears and two blown up Aldi angle grinders The wheels are getting a blast as well .

[Alex van de Wetering]

Mike,

Excellent to see you are working on the Morris! Please keep the pictures coming!

By the way....where did your Morris website go?

regards,
Alex

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Mike,

Excellent to see you are working on the Morris! Please keep the pictures coming!

By the way....where did your Morris website go?

regards,
Alex

Alex

There are bits of the web site surviving .

http://www.reocities.com/vk3cz/index.html

[Mike K]

At the sandblaster today, I noticed the local RSL have their 25 pounder gun in for a refurbish - a sandblast and a paint . The gun is looking a little tatty in its faded and not so waterproof light stone finish . I'm not sure of its providence but I see it has no muzzle brake . I will take some pics if anyone needs info.

During one of my early VMVC trips we visited a CMF unit, they had a 25 pounder parked in the yard and the soldiers there noted that our club's 25 ( towed behind a F15A) was in better shape than theirs

[Mike K]

Been stripping down the rear axle . The large hub bearings are in excellent shape thank goodness. This is a solid piece of engineering. One oddity I've never seen before is: the brake shoes are a aluminium casting . The drums could do with a skim and the linings are worn thin . The hand brake mechanism on the CS8 is quite involved and I believe it will be effective .

The original copper brake pipes , I have mentioned they used only single flared ends . This is a weird idea but it must have been OK at the time.

[pauldavies]

Hi Mike and best of luck with the resto, just got my C8 road worthy and legal yesterday. Still having problems with the air/fuel mixture which I believe will lead me to another carbi as the carbi fitted seems to have a problem getting the idle and fuel mix as it should be.
Paul

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by pauldavies

Hi Mike and best of luck with the resto, just got my C8 road worthy and legal yesterday. Still having problems with the air/fuel mixture which I believe will lead me to another carbi as the carbi fitted seems to have a problem getting the idle and fuel mix as it should be.
Paul

The C8 is a unique truck in Aust. and your hard work has paid off.

Are you running the original Solex updraft carby ? I have heard that modern petrol can cause issues with older fuel systems .

[pauldavies]

Yes Mike original solex, can't get the air/fuel mix screw to do anything. I have noticed there is a lot of fuel welling at the bottom of the carbi in the choke tube?
Richard Farrant gave me some info which I tried but still no response from the air/fuel mix screw, basically nothing changes when the screw is turned either way?
Paul

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by pauldavies

Yes Mike original solex, can't get the air/fuel mix screw to do anything. I have noticed there is a lot of fuel welling at the bottom of the carbi in the choke tube?
Richard Farrant gave me some info which I tried but still no response from the air/fuel mix screw, basically nothing changes when the screw is turned either way?
Paul

I have some info on the carby , I will have a look and see what I can find out. Is the screw you are adjusting for the idle mixture only ? Or does the screw affect the fuel ratio over the whole RPM range ?

These carbies were a special design for the military , the manual refers to them as "dustproof". Maybe your fuel pump pressure is too high - have you checked it ? The pump pressure is critical. The CS8 uses a Autovac petrol sucking vacuum can on the dash, its a gravity flow down to the carby . If the fuel pressure on the needle seat is too high ( too much pump pressure in your case ) you will experience problems.

[Lynn Eades]

Paul, have you pulled the idle screw out and made sure the drillings are clear.
There will be a drilling across to the throttle plate and one vertically (I have no specific knowledge about this type of carb)
Really you probably need to go through the whole carb, checking the float level, any air correction jets, fuel pressure from the pump compared to specs etc.

[pauldavies]

Thanks guys and much food for thought, the air/fuel mixture screw and the idle screw I have been trying to get some sense out of and I have stripped the carbi a few times and found blocked jets and worn gaskets. I did install electric fuel pumps on and that may be the problem, I don't have the holding tank but the manual fuel pump I can fit to try the theory. Will let you know.
Paul

[Mike K]

The Morris Commercial 1940 book ' repair aids for service vehicles' says:

The FWD C8 should have carby: S.92/164 fitted AKA Solex 40 RFVDL ( strangler vertical dustproof with Governor)

choke 29
main jet 150-57
aux jet 065
jet assembly 12-300


mph in top gear 44
governor 2500 rpm

Get hold of a flat edge and check the flat surfaces of the carby for warpage , this can cause air leaks .

[Lynn Eades]

Paul, about all I know of a Morris Commercial is that they have 4 wheels. However I imagine a mechanical fuel pump and the delivery pressure from one of these is probably about 2 to 3 psi. if your electric pump is delivering any more it can push the needle off the seat and may be giving you a higher than normal float level. This will likely mess up the idle circuit. You might need to fit a fuel pressure regulator? I would put a gauge on it first.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Paul, about all I know of a Morris Commercial is that they have 4 wheels. However I imagine a mechanical fuel pump and the delivery pressure from one of these is probably about 2 to 3 psi. if your electric pump is delivering any more it can push the needle off the seat and may be giving you a higher than normal float level. This will likely mess up the idle circuit. You might need to fit a fuel pressure regulator? I would put a gauge on it first.

Just to add to what Lynn has written

Some of the older Solex carbies are extremely sensitive to fuel inlet pressure- this I think stems from the days when many cars had the petrol tank mounted in the cowl and the fuel gravity fed down. I found this out after I spent a long time fiddling about with a Series 1 Land Rover Solex carby . In the end the problem ( running rich ) was not in the carby , but in the SU electric fuel pump . The pump spec was 1 to 1.5 psi but it was actually around 3 psi and this oversight caused me much grief along with frustration.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Just to add to what Lynn has written

Some of the older Solex carbies are extremely sensitive to fuel inlet pressure- this I think stems from the days when many cars had the petrol tank mounted in the cowl and the fuel gravity fed down. I found this out after I spent a long time fiddling about with a Series 1 Land Rover Solex carby . In the end the problem ( running rich ) was not in the carby , but in the SU electric fuel pump . The pump spec was 1 to 1.5 psi but it was actually around 3 psi and this oversight caused me much grief along with frustration.

Mike,
There were two types of SU pump, high pressure and low pressure. For example a Morris Minor had the pump on the bulkhead and was a low pressure, whereas the Mini had the pump at the back near the tank and was a high pressure as it had to push the fuel further. I guess the delivery pressure at the carb equalled out between the two types. If using a SU pump it pays to check what application it was designed for.

regards, Richard

[pauldavies]

Mike I am sorry my problem has taken over your thread, but the news is good as yourself, Lynn and Richard have given me the answer to my problem. My C8 has the regulation carbi Solex 35/40 FVS and pressure has been my problem, I reinstalled the manual fuel pump, isolated the 12v pumps which are lifters close to the fuel source so work on about 4 psi and fired up the engine. The fuel/air mix screw was effective and I adjusted the idle, job done. I removed the manual fuel pump after to give it a service prior to final installation, I will go for a run tomorrow just to be sure all is good. I have left the 12v fuel pumps and the in line filters installed as I may use them for priming later down the line and don't seem to worry the system, I have the same 12v pumps on my Austin Champ so the later Solex carbi must be ok with the extra pressure. Many thanks to you all for the sound advise. Look forward to more pictures of your restoration Mike as it progresses.
Paul

[Mike K]

Paul

Good news. But don't break the speed limit in your C8 during the test drive

Us MCC owners have to stick together, we are few and far between in this far flung outpost

The old leather pinion seal on the CS8 rear axle is worn out and the 2" yoke had a deep groove worn in it . I decided to machine the yoke down to 50mm . I can buy a new 50mm pinion seal with a 70mm OD, this is close enough in size to the 2 3/4" original OD of the old seal .

I also had a win on EPAY and scored 4 new tie rod ends and some new front spring bolts and bushes for a cheap price, these are DUFOR brand made in NSW .The CS8 surprisingly has rather small diameter sized front spring pins, same dimensions as the Morris J2 van actually . The tie rod ends also fit a "Hillman Wizard" whatever that is ! and other vehicles from mid 1930's to early 50's including a MG .

[pauldavies]

Hi Mike and I am sure to hit 30mph tomorrow even though there are no hills near home in Point Vernon, you did well on the net gathering stores and even stuff from the early 30's from the wizard and as for the J2 well not the most pleasing looking thing that grew 4 wheels. By the looks of it you are like me and tend to machine things to what you need, I have a neighbour who lets me use his mini machine shop when needed but I had to pass his test a few years ago, he inspected some bushes I made which came up to his standard so I passed. Long time since I worked on machines but like riding a bike.
Will keep an eye on the leather seals as I have a nuisance leak on one of my back wheels, I am also wondering if my C8 is on the Aussie Army list that you are formulating? Chassis # 2283C8GS033 as I am hopeless on this kind of thing, I have my champ Aussie Army record someone sent me a few years ago as he had access to the ledger. Lots of luck with the C8 resto and again many thanks for the help.
Paul

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by pauldavies

Lots of luck with the C8 resto and again many thanks for the help.
Paul

It's actually a CS8 I am restoring the "S" indicates a six cyl. engine . It is a 4X2 .

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by pauldavies

Will keep an eye on the leather seals as I have a nuisance leak on one of my back wheels,

Hi Paul,
Glad to hear the fuel problem is hopefully sorted out now.
Regarding a rear hub seal, I think you will find that it is a felt ring. I found some of these some years ago for a C8 and they were still available from British Leyland in the 1970's-80's under the Unipart in-house spares label. I think they were used on the LD and some of the FG models from Austin and Morris.

regards, Richard

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Hi Paul,
Glad to hear the fuel problem is hopefully sorted out now.
Regarding a rear hub seal, I think you will find that it is a felt ring. I found some of these some years ago for a C8 and they were still available from British Leyland in the 1970's-80's under the Unipart in-house spares label. I think they were used on the LD and some of the FG models from Austin and Morris.

regards, Richard

The CS8 has a felt ring behind the inner hub bearing , its a pretty crude seal but it must have been effective to some degree. The felt sits in a steel circular holder that RESTS AGAINST the bearing. You can see the felt ring behind the bearing, in the pic I attached with the can of WD40 .

[pauldavies]

Hi guy's and went for a run in the C8 today, a bit on the sluggish side so some adjustment to the fuel/air mix needed also the radiator worked well till I got it back in the shed and switched off then it boiled over. I only filled till touching the plate at the bottom of the filler, I still have reservations where the rubber sealing ring actually seals against?
Paul

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by pauldavies

Hi guy's and went for a run in the C8 today, a bit on the sluggish side so some adjustment to the fuel/air mix needed also the radiator worked well till I got it back in the shed and switched off then it boiled over. I only filled till touching the plate at the bottom of the filler, I still have reservations where the rubber sealing ring actually seals against?
Paul

Hi Paul,
The rubber ring seals against the flange face of the spring loaded tube. I found on my Bedford that the spring was not free on the tube and after cleaning it all up it now works fine. I would also check that the block and radiator are clean as that could cause you problems. Another tip is to let it idle for a while before stopping the engine, in order to get the temperature down.

regards, Richard

[Mike K]

hi Paul

The C8 was probably a sluggish performer even when it left the factory

The book I mentioned would be a good aid for you. I have scanned the book but I have mislaid it somehow. It is on a CD or a stick . I will have another look, if I find it I can send you a copy. The book , published by MCC themselves, covers all of the miltary models , maintenance instructions and specifications . I do have the photocopy of the book itself , if all else fails I can send you the hard copy but you would have to return it .

Also your earlier query re the serial nr . Not sure - as it is a GS version , it isn't among the C8's listed in the AWM books which were all portees.

[T Creighton]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

The CS8 has a felt ring behind the inner hub bearing , its a pretty crude seal but it must have been effective to some degree. The felt sits in a steel circular holder that RESTS AGAINST the bearing. You can see the felt ring behind the bearing, in the pic I attached with the can of WD40 .

Hi Mike, Do you think it is possible to replace that felt ring with a conventional seal? I don't want to risk oil on my expensive new woven brake linings.
Cheers., Terry

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by T Creighton

Hi Mike, Do you think it is possible to replace that felt ring with a conventional seal? I don't want to risk oil on my expensive new woven brake linings.
Cheers., Terry

I have been wondering if a modern hub seal can be fitted to the rear axle hubs on the CS8 . After looking at how the hub is designed - in the case of the CS8, I feel it would be a difficult conversion . I am not certain about how the 4x4 hub is set up but it appears to be similar to the CS8 rear hub, maybe you and Paul can come up with a solution .

[pauldavies]

Thanks Mike and Richard it would seem I need to learn how to drive a rare vehicle such as the C8, I have the Morris Manual (as shown)but all information is gold and yes if all else fails Mike send it up and I will return it. I will have to do a bit of thinking regarding the seal as I suppose there must be modern day alternatives it's just how to fit them in. There is a company in Sydney who will supply just about anything seals & bearings wise, will have to look into it.
Many thanks to all.Shame about the AWM listing but I hope the Morris Register can come up with something, they are having a Morris meet in Maryborough QLD next year which I will be attending.

[Mike K]

Somebody has similar thoughts re the felt seals

http://users.boardnation.com/~mcc/in...y;threadid=233

[Mike K]

At the sandblaster again today , dropping off the various castings like spring hangers and other bits. He has done the wheels I dropped off last week.

The RSL 25 pounder has been blasted, it is now in a glossy green . Looking over it, all the bits are dated 1941 . Would this be UK manufacture ? I forgot to take pics but I drive past the RSL regularly where it will be permanently displayed .

[T Creighton]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I have been wondering if a modern hub seal can be fitted to the rear axle hubs on the CS8 . After looking at how the hub is designed - in the case of the CS8, I feel it would be a difficult conversion . I am not certain about how the 4x4 hub is set up but it appears to be similar to the CS8 rear hub, maybe you and Paul can come up with a solution .

It looks like a 3 1/2 x 4 7/16 x 3/8 conventional seal could fit instead of the felt seal and it's retainer ring, but the seal lip would only just bear on the journal of the distance piece.
Machining the flange on the distance piece could allow the seal to move out a bit but then it may be not far enough inside the hub bore.
It would be a gamble to alter a distance piece to find it did not work.
If I could find some new felt rings I would stick to that system.
Terry.