11 Set stuff

[cletrac (RIP)]

I asked him but he had it wrapped before he read my email.
I contacted him again to see if he has any pics of one in a truck. Being a museum I thought it would be worth a try.
Mike, you should have found that link a couple of weeks ago LOL

[Ron Pier]

I'm smarting all the more, since I bid over £700 and still didn't win it (stupid amount) and then found I could have bought it for 40 Quid!! Ron

[Mike K]

Ben Nock is well known and I have done a deal with him , we did a swap , I got a German Torn E set from him.

Maybe he could tell us the buyers contact details ?

[things_green]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Would a ebonite panel of that size, have enough structural strength ? With all of those holes for the meters and the terminal posts and the rest , a ebonite panel would be rather fragile and prone to cracking . Mike

interesting thread, superb job on your recreation David.

I have a portable charging switchboard Mike, very heavily cutaway for the rheostats & meters.
I don't know if its ebonite, plastic, paxoline or something else?
no sign of cracking since '40, or is that '41.
the facia measures 14 1/2" x 15 1/2".

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by things_green

interesting thread, superb job on your recreation David.

I have a portable charging switchboard Mike, very heavily cutaway for the rheostats & meters.
I don't know if its ebonite, plastic, paxoline or something else?
no sign of cracking since '40, or is that '41.
the facia measures 14 1/2' x 15 1/2".

Brent

hi, that item of yours looks to be in mint cond. It may have been stored and never used .Did you restore it ?

Don't know what it is for ???????????

[things_green]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Brent

hi, that item of yours looks to be in mint cond. It may have been stored and never used .Did you restore it ?

Don't know what it is for ???????????

'portable' charging switchboard. For charging 3 batteries at once...use the rheostats to tune the voltages. I have a 4Kv Coventry Climax genset I'm hoping to use it with. someday ;-)

It was pretty careworn when it arrived.....
I sourced to correct volt meter from my spares (after looking around the planet for 12 months ~doh~). Still requires a 3rd cut-out relay.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by things_green

'portable' charging switchboard. For charging 3 batteries at once...use the rheostats to tune the voltages. I have a 4Kv Coventry Climax genset I'm hoping to use it with. someday ;-)

It was pretty careworn when it arrived.....
I sourced to correct volt meter from my spares (after looking around the planet for 12 months ~doh~). Still requires a 3rd cut-out relay.

Hi Brent,

The front panel will be made of one of the "Tufnol" varieties, and is basically Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper or Fabric. The resin is phenol/formaldehyde and is a thermosetting plastic that is cured by heating with the material in a press. (Basically it's Bakelite with paper or fabric reinforcement and is a good insulator and very strong (in the thickness used for that panel).)

That charging switchboard is meant for a 550 Watt generating set, so your 4KVA one may well cause the magic smoke to escape. They operate by using one of the rheostats to control the generator field current and hence the output voltage produced, and the other three to set the charging current for each of the output circuits - so you can charge different types of batteries simultaneously provided each circuit has the same total voltage rating and all the batteries in a circuit have the same amp hour capacity.

You could ignore the voltage control rheostat and use it with a suitably chunky variable DC supply, say 18 volts at up to 30 amps for charging 12V signals (or other) batteries.

Do you know which accumulator cut-out you are missing? I picked up a couple at a radio rally recently, and while they are fairly heavy, surface mail should not be too expensive, even to the other side of the planet.

Chris.

[things_green]

Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz

Hi Brent,

Do you know which accumulator cut-out you are missing? I picked up a couple at a radio rally recently, and while they are fairly heavy, surface mail should not be too expensive, even to the other side of the planet.

Chris.

Firstly a thankyou to the Moderators for letting this intrusion to 'No11 Sets' get in the way.

Hi Chris, as always the breadth of your knowledge is astounding.

As I haven't found any docs in the Gnome Archive I'm guessing the missing do-dad is an overcurrent relay/cutoff?

seems logical that its the same as the other two. Z.A.2413.
I am planning on multiple feeds from the Climax genny.... just enough to astound the punters at shows.

cheers.
Brent

back to No. 11 Sets.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by things_green

I'm guessing the missing do-dad is an overcurrent relay/cutoff?

seems logical that its the same as the other two. Z.A.2413.

Hmmm... the two I have also say CAT. No. Z.A.2413 on them, but it's possible that's only the cover because the base of the unit has CUT OUT AUTO No. 6
on the edge of the base next to the cable entry, and CAT No. Z.B.2478 on the opposite end.

I don't think they're an overcurrent relay, more likely the reverse, where they will disconnect the battery from the supply once the charging current falls to a low enough level.

The two tubes lining up with the holes in the cover appear to be for an operator's lamp.

I managed to get the back off one unit, and there's a flat coil (possibly a heating element to protect against frost) inside.

Anyway, they weigh around 590g (or 1lb 4.5 oz for this Imperialist), and I can probably mail you one (or both) if they're suitable and you can't get one locally.

Chris.

[things_green]

Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz

Hmmm... the two I have also say CAT. No. Z.A.2413 on them, but it's possible that's only the cover because the base of the unit has CUT OUT AUTO No. 6
on the edge of the base next to the cable entry, and CAT No. Z.B.2478 on the opposite end.
Chris.

I removed the centre cut-out today Chris, sounds similar but, unfortunately, no cigar....same element in the base with a mica cover but marked ;
"CUT OUT AUTO No. 7"
"CAT No. ZA 2412"
same for the bottom unit.

I guess its quite possible the top unit was in fact a No. 6, but its speculation and fervent hope
An upgrade unit perhaps?

and yes....the tubes, which I assumed (that mother again) was some sort of vent, is wired!

cheers,
Brent

[cletrac (RIP)]

I thought I should add this connector info to the 11 set thread. The 4 prong plug is the same as the telephone set D uses.
The connectors are simple enough: No.9 plug for the headset, No.10 plug for the microphone, and what I assume is a WW2 vintage banana plug for the morse key (sharing the earth connection with the headset and microphone).
edit: the numbers on the cardboard are the wire lengths.

[Bruce MacMillan]

Originally Posted by cletrac

what I assume is a WW2 vintage banana plug for the morse key (sharing the earth connection with the headset and microphone).

If the cable assy is made in the UK there's a good chance this plug is called a "wander" plug. It looks like a banana plug but has different pin diameter. A banana plug will not fit in the mating socket.

The MCR1 SOE receiver uses these and it frustrated me to no end trying to find some. Finally got lucky at a radio rally.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by things_green

I removed the centre cut-out today Chris, sounds similar but, unfortunately, no cigar....same element in the base with a mica cover but marked ;
"CUT OUT AUTO No. 7"
"CAT No. ZA 2412"
same for the bottom unit.

I guess its quite possible the top unit was in fact a No. 6, but its speculation and fervent hope
An upgrade unit perhaps?

and yes....the tubes, which I assumed (that mother again) was some sort of vent, is wired!

cheers,
Brent

They will be for different charging voltages and currents, I suspect. I have no idea how they work but suspect it's the equivalent of the old vehicle "control box" for regulating the dynamo charging the battery to prevent overcharge.

There's an aircraft one on ebay for 25 GBP or so (which is a silly price) as I think I paid 1 GBP for these. That one (with A.M. stores code) is 24V.

We need a section ZB VAOS from WW2 or thereabouts!

Chris.
(I thought the tubes were vents, too!)

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's some close-ups of the banana plug. It has KEY in white lettering stamped into it and on the opposite side it has No11 stamped into it but not painted. The pin will be the same diameter as the regular Morse key plug.

[Chris Suslowicz]

OK, now I know what to look for I'll keep my eyes peeled for those at the next couple of rallies. (Vintage Communications Fair and the Luton Rally, both in May.)

I've turned up a couple of Plugs No.406 if you need one of those, and have spare No.9 and No.10 plugs as well. The No.11 seems to be a rather harder target.

Chris.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I got this key off ebay for the brass plate and plug and finger rest. The listing said it's a Navy plug.
That got me thinking, what did the radio trucks have to hold the key in place? That brass plate must slide into some slots.

[Mike K]

Some of the wireless sets had the key fitted into a sliding slot mounted in the set itself eg , the WS 109 and 101 and FS6

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by cletrac

That got me thinking, what did the radio trucks have to hold the key in place? That brass plate must slide into some slots.

Web straps and buckles on the key that secured it to the operator's thigh, forearm or anything else.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Web straps and buckles on the key that secured it to the operator's thigh, forearm or anything else.

That leaves ones imagination in overdrive

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

That leaves ones imagination in overdrive

If I was trying to stoke your wild side I'd have said leather straps. You'll have to let your imagination go wild with web straps however...

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's a blow up of that pic inside an 8cwt. There's no room in front of the set for the morse key and on top of the set would be too high.
I looked further and found this other pic that I'd forgotten about. That key must have something there to hold it down. The bakelite base would be black like the knob.

[things_green]

Excellent coverage here;

http://www.royalsignals.org.uk/key-p...yandplugv1.pdf

There is mention of a British, Ausy and the New Zealand copy of the 'key slide'..

The NZ unit is a locally produced "Key WT 5 amp No2" .
The associated Slide was designed for the ZC1 Mk I & MkII in the vehicle mounted role.

here is mine;

[cletrac (RIP)]

I watched that film clip again and here it is! Problem solved. It's mounted on the sliding shelf below the set.

[Ron Pier]

Not sure if it's the correct key? But my guy has the "Kinky" version. Ron

[Mike K]

Ron

your operator , the guy that is permanently stiff, has a 19 set key on his thigh .

Those ubiquitous No.2 keys are not the most comfortable keys to use, I always found them unbalanced and awkward , I could never get above 10WPM

[Ron Pier]

Thanks Mike. Let me know if you have a surplus correct key available to sell me.

Regards Ron

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's the pages from WFTW that Brent refered to.
The 11 set key was high enough voltage that it used the insulated knob and finger protector.The key has machine screws going up from the bottom to hold stuff together so it needs that cork type gasket between the bakelite and the slider piece for insulation. The other part of the slider bolts down and the key assembly slides into it freely.
I still need the bolt down part of the slider to complete my setup if anyone has one to spare.
Chris, does your pamphlet with the wire lengths say anything relevant to this setup?
The last page is a No 2 key used with the leg straps. It looks like just the leg strap versions had that cover on them.

[cletrac (RIP)]

This is the leg strap version that would have been used with the 11 set.ebay
I bought one and he has one left. He says they're for a 19 set but he's dead wrong on that one. This would be the No 6 assembly with a No 2 key inside.
edit: I added this page from WFTW since it has this same assembly shown. It looks like it was the only kinky option available when they made the 11 sets. This one is dated 1937 but it doesn't have the finger protector. I wonder what other sets needed the finger protector?

[Ron Pier]

And I've bought the remaining key, which is on it's way from Texas. The listing says it's missing the plug! Thanks for the heads up Dave. Ron

[Mike K]

I have never seen that earlier prewar style of key that straps to the thigh...

If you look at the VAOS parts list for the WS11 (Aust) it should have a ZA or ZAA number for the key .

I recall when Aussie disposals had the 19 set thigh keys NOS . I purchased their whole stock , the keys were various brands and manufactured in different countries, some were made in the USA . When I got rid of my 19 sets , I didn't keep the keys .