Need help: M151a2 CAF Europe 74-22375

[Gaspare]

OK OK, I know the camo pattern is absolutely wrong ,
that's why I am searching original pics and infos on my baby !
( I have already downloaded the restoration pics of this forum to fix this )

[maple_leaf_eh]

Gaspare:

Welcome aboard! The sticker is something from the Air Force, but the name and numbers are not necessarily correct. My brother was an airforce technician on CF18 fighters when they were new, and they called themselves Hornet Handlers. I don't know what ground vehicles the Air Force had, or even if they had Standard Military Pattern field vehicles.

What serial numbers are on the data plates?

[chris vickery]

Perhaps someone's artistic creation?

[Scott Bentley]

Hi,

Definitely a Canadian M151A2 judging by some of the mods.

The CFR you have actually looks legit. I recall from the DND Database, that there were a bunch of CFRs at the end that were not the usual 74-09*** series.

Sadly, I don't have access to the Database right now as I have moved offices yet again. Once I do, i'll pull up the Unit info.

In the mean time, post up the Serial Number from the Dataplate on the dash. That can be used to check the validity of the CFR and then more importantly, lead to the Unit history.

Scotty

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Perhaps someone's artistic creation?

Although the Stickers look quite legit, the stencils are a bit strange....

[Gaspare]

Thank you for the comments,

I'll check the data plates and I will tell you more.

in the while i have a couple more question :

First, I stolen this pic from the net, can you help me to locate where to look for this kind of label in the car?

Second: long time ago i have seen some pics from (if I remember well) a Canadian Museum showing a CDN M151a2 (between many others) on display with what was defined as "a canadian ingenuity winch" made with two cylinders applied to the rear wheels and a rope.

Anyone can help me to locate the museum and tell me if it was an official standard CDN device/transformation (also drawings and instruction would be fantastic informations).

I thank all you in advance for your invaluable help.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Thank you for the comments,

I'll check the data plates and I will tell you more.

in the while i have a couple more question :

First, I stolen this pic from the net, can you help me to locate where to look for this kind of label in the car?

Second: long time ago i have seen some pics from (if I remember well) a Canadian Museum showing a CDN M151a2 (between many others) on display with what was defined as "a canadian ingenuity winch" made with two cylinders applied to the rear wheels and a rope.

Anyone can help me to locate the museum and tell me if it was an official standard CDN device/transformation (also drawings and instruction would be fantastic informations).

I thank all you in advance for your invaluable help.

All of the Canadian M151A2's were build by American General with bodies produced in house. They also all had Emissions Controlled Engine/Fuel Systems. The body tag in the photo you attached won't be found on your A2. Those were unique to Ford/Willys/Kaiser built M151/M151A1 and early Ford A2s. There was an AMG applied foil body tag behind the fuel lines along the transmission tunnel next to the drivers ankle. I have never found one on any of the tubs that passed through my hands. The only time i've seen them is on a replacement body where there was no Serial Number Dataplate. Regardless, the numbers on the foil tag aren't actually the same as the Mfg Serial/VIN Number on the Dash Dataplate, but rather some internal control number for AMG. Although the "Muttguru" in England can tell you lots of info with a Budd or Freuhauf Body Tag, i'm not sure he can do the same with the AMG number. At best, the production date, as the Canadian Forces did not use Hood Numbers like the US on the M151A2. So, when it comes to an AMG M151A2, the Serial Number on the Dash Dataplate is crucial to determine correct history. If the original is gone (and most were removed and destroyed), then the only hope is that the CFR is painted on the body somewhere or a Tac Sign is visible.

The "Unstuckers" are a legitimate tool for the 1/4 ton "Jeeps". They can be found for sale from time to time around here.

[rob love]

From another thread on the M151A2s it was revealed that there are a block of numbers that start with 22350 to 22519, so your CFR falls into that block.

Your M151A2 looks very nice. Is it a reweld or uncut?

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

All of the Canadian M151A2's were build by American General with bodies produced in house. They also all had Emissions Controlled Engine/Fuel Systems. The body tag in the photo you attached won't be found on your A2. Those were unique to Ford/Willys/Kaiser built M151/M151A1 and early Ford A2s. There was an AMG applied foil body tag behind the fuel lines along the transmission tunnel next to the drivers ankle. I have never found one on any of the tubs that passed through my hands. The only time i've seen them is on a replacement body where there was no Serial Number Dataplate. Regardless, the numbers on the foil tag aren't actually the same as the Mfg Serial/VIN Number on the Dash Dataplate, but rather some internal control number for AMG. Although the "Muttguru" in England can tell you lots of info with a Budd or Freuhauf Body Tag, i'm not sure he can do the same with the AMG number. At best, the production date, as the Canadian Forces did not use Hood Numbers like the US on the M151A2. So, when it comes to an AMG M151A2, the Serial Number on the Dash Dataplate is crucial to determine correct history. If the original is gone (and most were removed and destroyed), then the only hope is that the CFR is painted on the body somewhere or a Tac Sign is visible.

The "Unstuckers" are a legitimate tool for the 1/4 ton "Jeeps". They can be found for sale from time to time around here.

that's why i didn't find it anywhere on my one, .
about the"Unstuckers", do you mean the UN stickers? (may be obvious but i am Italian and my english may be limited.... )

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Gaspare:

Welcome aboard! The sticker is something from the Air Force, but the name and numbers are not necessarily correct. My brother was an airforce technician on CF18 fighters when they were new, and they called themselves Hornet Handlers. I don't know what ground vehicles the Air Force had, or even if they had Standard Military Pattern field vehicles.

What serial numbers are on the data plates?

i am sure that the numbers on my M151 are correct (i found them in one more place in the car and it is a non repainted area, pics on forum will follow soon), does your brother recall if they used some M151?
Would any pics of them be available ?
Thank you for reanswering me,
Gaspare.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

i am sure that the numbers on my M151 are correct (i found them in one more place in the car and it is a non repainted area, pics on forum will follow soon), does your brother recall if they used some M151?
Would any pics of them be available ?
Thank you for reanswering me,
Gaspare.

From my brother:

Sorry, but I do not remember any CF-18 squadrons operating M151 jeeps. Air types tended to drive civilian pattern Ford (of West Germany) sedans or mini-vans. Aircraft-specific support vehicles (tugs, tankers, etc.) tended to be from obscure North American manufacturers.

My second posting to West Germany was shortly after the Canadian Army bought a boat-load of Iltis .. to replace their old M38s and M151 jeeps.
A Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker means almost nothing. At best, it proves that a Hornet Handler visited the home base of that M151. Travelling air-types had a habit of "zaping" equipment belong to other squadrons. In extreme cases, Hornet Handlers would hold (other) squadron mascots hostage. The ransom was usually something as embarrassing as wearing a hockey jersey.

Does that answer your question?

> When you were fixing 18s in Germany, did any of the sqns have M151 jeeps? A collector in Italy has an ex-CF M151 with a Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

From my brother:

Sorry, but I do not remember any CF-18 squadrons operating M151 jeeps. Air types tended to drive civilian pattern Ford (of West Germany) sedans or mini-vans. Aircraft-specific support vehicles (tugs, tankers, etc.) tended to be from obscure North American manufacturers.

My second posting to West Germany was shortly after the Canadian Army bought a boat-load of Iltis .. to replace their old M38s and M151 jeeps.
A Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker means almost nothing. At best, it proves that a Hornet Handler visited the home base of that M151. Travelling air-types had a habit of "zaping" equipment belong to other squadrons. In extreme cases, Hornet Handlers would hold (other) squadron mascots hostage. The ransom was usually something as embarrassing as wearing a hockey jersey.

Does that answer your question?

> When you were fixing 18s in Germany, did any of the sqns have M151 jeeps? A collector in Italy has an ex-CF M151 with a Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker.

Thank you Terry and thanks a lot to your brother too, Scot made research about my m151 and found the story of the 74-22375 which was belonging to other units, so it make sense to the sticker, but still not to the stencil painted CAF HORNET on the front bumper and inside the engine hood, unless they had time to zap them too.