2011 at the Hammond Barn

Bob Carriere · #1 03-02-11, 00:32

Canvas Winter garages are doing well....no urgency to clean them up.... the wind kept the light fluffy snow from pilling up on the roof and rather drifted it around the shelters. The worst might be your little green shelter that seems to hold snow more than the others.

Road to the barn is all cleaned up..... two hours of fun and merryment....

Back to the salt mines tomorrow.

Bob

Ken Hughes · #2 04-02-11, 10:58

Allways interested in what you guys get up to in your barn,keep up the good work.

RHClarke · #3 06-02-11, 22:20

The boys spent most of the morning working on cleaning off shelters, snow removal and other bits of administration. The weather was going to warm up, so we decided to help with the melting process. Grant took to cleaning the barn roof and Bob and I cleaned off some shelters. Clive's shelter was really laden with snow as it sits in a sheltered area and collects more snow that the others.

Later on in the morning, we hauled out the 45 HUP to troubleshoot the ignition. The first task was to set up the timing marks using the "Waterman" technique. After finding Top Dead Center, a wire was attached to the two inspection plate screws at the top of the bell housing. A quick mark with a chisel and a dab of yellow paint later, we were done with that task.

Next was to start the old girl. But, she wouldn't start for love or money. Plugs were checked. Wiring checked. Points checked. Firing sequence checked. We replaced the coil temporarily, but no luck. Finally, the condenser was pulled and replaced and the truck tried to start. After cleaning up the starter and replacing the small wire that runs from the ignition switch to the coil, the engine coughed to life.

After a few minutes of warming up, we attached the timing light (after undoing the vacuum line) and set the timing as best we could. After a good warm up period, we adjusted the timing. The truck accelerated in such a manner as to suggest that something was out of sorts. Previously the truck ran very smoothly, but now it accelereates roughly. It wasn't a warm day by any stretch of the imagination, but after a few hours of hovering over the engine, we got a bit fatiqued. We will try to adjust the timing a few degrees either way to see if that makes a difference.

If there are any 235 engine experts out there, please feel free to weigh in on timing secrets...

Photos:
1. Grant on avalanche control duties
2. Bob getting intimate with the HUP
3. The Waterman timing mark setup
4. Clive's laden shelter (on the verge of collapse...)
5. Clive's relieved shelter

Phil Waterman · #4 07-02-11, 00:33

Hi Guys

What are you trying to set the distributor timing to TDC, 5degrees before TDC? Not sure what the Canadian 235 is intended for, my 1960 manual US truck manual http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...e%20Manual.htm suggest that it should be 5 BTDC. With the vacuum line disconnected and the cover open on the manifold, not sure what this last bit means. I have not posted section 7 of the manual but I will this week.

When it is running with the vacuum line disconnected does the timing advance when you speed up? Had a problem with one distributor that the mechanical advance stopped working. In my case it was mud wasps that had gotten in through the hole in the bottom of the distributor and plugged things up. Quick check of the mechanical advance is to remove the distributor cap and gently twist the rotor it should move a few degrees and when released should spring back. Also had a problem with a vacuum diaphragm failing.

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #5 07-02-11, 04:11

...like Rob said it was a relatively nice day hovering around 0C and to avoid the exhaust fumes we worked outside by the barn door.

First thing to do was find TDC...... remove the half moon cover on the flywheel underneath and tweak the flywheel with a pry bar to get exactly TDC. We then remove the small inspection cover from the top of the bellhousing and installed a stiff wire between the two screws then marked the clutch housing with a chisel and yellow paint.

We checked the gap on the points twice..... checked wiring sequence at least 3 times..... applied juice .... no spark..... ran the 6 volt starter a bit too long..... lost all power.... Rob took off the starter... took it apart.....cleaned the segments with a hack saw blade.... washed the inside with degreaser spray.... lubed spline and bushings and reassembled. Ran good and strong.

Still no spark.... my fail safe test is to remove a spark plug wire.... insert a screwdriver in the rubber boot.... hold the screwedriver in my hand while touching the sparkplug tip with the back of my hand.... if I don't jump or twitch..... no spark for sure.

By process of elimination..... and thank God for all the spare parts I acquired from Ebay over the years.... finally found out the condenser was fried.... why???? who knows.

Got it running...... disconnected the vacuum line from the carb...plugged the open hole in carb....... timing was off..... loosen dizzy screw and twisted dizzy until yellow line was TDC....... this is according to the 58 GM manual for 235 and 261....... mine works that way to. Tightened dizzy screw.... checked again ...TDC...... reconnected vacuum line..... at that point the yellow marker moves away by 10 to 15 degrees...... as you rev up the engine the dizzy twists with the vacuum.....

The puzzle..... before the engine ran super smooth but backfired through the carb whenever the engine was revved up...

Now the engine does not backfire but runs rough as if something was out of balance..... back to checking the firing order.... still fine..... engine is not knocking or valves clacking and vacuum is steady at 22 inches..... picks up revs but shakes like it is out of balance...... removed on plug wire at a time..... no noticeable differences except a slight drop in rpm

Some older 235 or 216 manuals called for 5 degrees BTDC..... this is an early 235..... maybe.....

Well time ran out..... will have to do it again.....

The hilite of the day was using Phil's trick of removing the inspection cover from the bellhousing.... holding the strobe light just at 90 degrees you can see the shadow of the wire over the yellow line we had painted.

But now the timing process is a 3 man job.... me inside the cab on the strobe light....Grant holding a long screwdriver in the locking screw of the dizzy while trying to avoid the spinning fan blade and Rob twisting the dizzy ever so slightly and holding it while the screw is tightened. Sure makes it very intimate...... but it was fun !!!!

Suggestions and / or comments welcomed....

Boob

Phil Waterman · #6 07-02-11, 16:00

Hi Rob and Bob

Sounds like an old radio show. But any way couple of diagnostic questions some of which you answered Bob.

The vacuum advance is working - you confirmed that bob
Is the centrifugal advance working, it should advance as you take the engine from idle to about 1000 rpm
You say that the engine doesn't back fire but runs rough - have you checked to see if it is a particular cylinder

Like your method of checking for spark, I generally try to get somebody else to hold the plug wires.

The running rough once the engine starts reminds me a little of the starting problems I've had with my HUP when it has not run for a couple weeks, once it would catch it would run rough for several minutes before finally smoothing out it did this fairly consistently if the engine had not been run for about two weeks, never did find the cause. This is one of the reasons I plan to put the HUP engine on the test stand see if I can track down the cause.

Keep us posted on you progress

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #7 07-02-11, 16:29

Next time we need to add your video recorder....particularly the sound track
which ...hopefully... will capture the low frequency rumble..... of the engine running as if out of balance. Rob do you have a provision for plugging a remote microphone into your video recorder.....?

The engine almost felt and sounded as if a large chunk of something was attached (frozen) to the crankshaft and rotating out of round.....

In reviewing an old Chilton manuals last night, I confirmed that the setting should be TDC for the 235.....

Also..... the 1958 GM manuals talks baout a cylinder balance test to determine if one cylinder is being dragged by the rest of the engine. It calls for systematiclly grounding four of the 6 cylinders with the engine running in a particularly paired order..... and recording rpm drop and vacuum drop.....

Something to consider for the next mild day.....

Bob