CGT Restoration - Update

Walde Libera · #1 25-03-04, 06:19

Finishing chassis restoration

Does anyone have an NOS or good used oil filler cap and pipe assembly for the rear of the 216 rocker cover? Could also use the bottom portion of the mini oil bath air filter also located on the same rocker cover ( old one has bottom rusted out). Second, how is the crankcase vent system routed from the intake manifold? Any original pics would help! I was thinking of using 3/8" steel tubing and running it around the front of the engine fom the intake manifold to the right hand engine oil filler tube.

Best Regards
Walde Libera
West Coast Canada
44 CGT
53 CDN M37
41 carrier

jeff davis · #2 25-03-04, 07:29

Hey Walde look in the resto section theres a picture of the 216 in there . Did you ever pay that guy for the carrier:

Walde Libera · #3 04-10-04, 20:13

Heading east Oct.11-20, looking for Cab 13 side window frames, grill, logo, head light bucket (early version is smaller), tire carrier, 216 rocker cover rear filler assembly, map lite on dash. Anybody have any they can spare, trying complete my FAT restoration for next year?

Picture taken July 2004, chassis completely rebuilt, decided on a 235 instead (original 216 engine was reusable but needed new valves and 2 babbited rods), I opted for full pressure lube and few more horses as this 3 ton will need all it can get. Most components were readily available like bearings, seals, hoses,u-joints. I also received a lot of advise from people who are also dedicated CMP'ers like Lorne Ertl, Gord Falk in Manitoba, Roy Welburne in Williams lake, Harry Moon, Jeff Davis, John Hawthorne, Pat Papworth (the local guys) as well as a few fellas back east Brian Asbury, Don Elliot, D. Weatherspoon. And we have Dirk in Holland and the Aussies. All the information is also documented and will be of tremendous value to anyone who decides to restore a true Canadian WW II vintage vehicle. They are very unique and should be preserved.

Best Regards Walde

in BC Canada

Stewart Loy · #4 04-10-04, 20:22

Walde,

Albert Baines in Petrolia, Ontario is part of a gang of CMPers who are restoring at FAT also.

The last time I went to see Albert he showed me the seat springs that he had made on his lathe. Think about how many seats there are in a FAT and how many springs are in each - and he made them by hand!

Give him a call - he will have much input I am sure. The chassis that they have is done, and the body work was well underway at a nearby shop.

Stewart

Hanno Spoelstra · #5 06-10-04, 15:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Walde
All the information is also documented and will be of tremendous value to anyone who decides to restore a true Canadian WW II vintage vehicle.

Walde, although I cannot help with the parts you're looking for I'd like to offer my help in setting up a website to share the wealth of information you must have gathered during this restoration.

Regards,
Hanno

Walde Libera · #6 08-10-04, 06:13

Hanno

A CGT website is a good idea! There are still quite a few CMP FAT cab /chassis in the world that deserve to be restored.
These trucks were usefull post war and ended up like the carriers (no armour) with the rear body knocked off, and made into tow trucks or crane trucks. We need to document or provide an information resource for any other potential restorers out there! I have kept records with what I have done.

I am in the processs of moving a rear body from Ontario to BC. The body has some missing bits (top 1/3) although the rear doors, lower section are all intact including the rear window frames.

I am in Atlanta Ga. right now and I will be going to Ontario next week!

Should have some pics then.

Regards Walde

Hanno Spoelstra · #7 08-10-04, 11:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Walde
We need to document or provide an information resource for any other potential restorers out there! I have kept records with what I have done.

Walde, if you provide pictures and text, I'd be happy to put it all together on a website - click here to view a site on the restoration of a Sherman tank I made up. Let me know when you get back so we can work out the details.

Regards,
Hanno

Walde Libera · #8 14-02-06, 22:17

Gents

Can any of you that have a CGT Cab 13 FAT e-mail me pictures of the interior? Looking for details of the rear half body,at the front looking at the ceiling. Details of the roof construction is what I am after, particularly the front door hinge pillar as it meets the ceiling I have the exterior details, so pics from out side won't help.
Can you please post here or e-mail directly to me.

I am in the process of reconstructing the upper 1/3 portion of the body which has been removed years ago, so its a challenge to reverse engineer it, a few pictures makes a big difference.

Thanks Walde
Vancouver BC Canada

Alan Brock · #9 01-03-06, 22:50

Is this what you are looking for ?

I can take some more pictures at the weekend if you let me know exactly what views you need.

Alan Brock.

Walde Libera · #10 02-03-06, 03:16

Allan

A big Thank You!

Exactly what I was looking for!
It seems the CGT body I took pics of in Newtonville Ontario in 2004 shows this area to be configured differently than the body I have. Mine is the same as yours, my rear body ID tag reads 4408 7B2 1972.

I took measurements, but yours is more corrrect, if you could give me the length end to end of the "2X1" horizontal U channel, height from floor and the corner angle iron (in your pic) it would give me all I need, I think? E-mailing pics would help too?

Walde

Attached is the other body style from Newtonville, you can see a big difference.

Alan Brock · #11 06-04-06, 17:44

I have measured the distance from the TOP of the 2"x1" channel to the top face of the rear body floor panel, it is 1250mm.

The distance between the inside faces of the rear door pillars is 1734mm.

Hope this is what you wanted.

Alan Brock

Walde Libera · #12 22-02-08, 05:42

Hi Fellows:

Just wanted to drop in and update my progress last 4 years or so on the restoration of a 1944 CGT, here is a shot of it as found with the the help of a fellow military club member Jeff Davis and when I when unloaded it at home. It was used as a gin pole style tow truck which I cut all off where I found it. Had no rear body as usual but managed to find one partial one, details to follow.I am in Vancouver, BC Canada.

Data plates intact: C-60441-M-Fat-4
Publications tag: CGT-02
Cab Model 13
Chassis serial number 3844032286
Engine serial number WR3949573
Order number LV1798
Date of manufacture Mar.8-44

Walde Libera · #13 23-02-08, 01:02

I had the engine running in a couple of hours shortly after receiving the CGT, amazing since it probably had not run in many years. It's a sorry state of affairs but the main components are are all intact, the engine, transmission, transfer case, winch, axles, shafts all good. Even the fair leads front and back were there.
As best as I could tell this vehicle was released from the Canadian army in 1958 and rear body removed to be used to as a "crummy" for hauling loggers up to the top of a local mountain until the late sixty's. It subsequently became a back yard toy in Maple Ridge in the 70's where a current member of Western Command Jeff Davis played in it as a child probably well into the seventy's. In the early 80's it went to a farm near Mission and ended up parked on a hill pointed nosed down held back by its played out winch cable wrapped around a tree.
I had just restored an CDN M37 and was looking for a new project something Canadian, WW 2 and unique.

I felt this CGT could be a fully restored driver, so with patience and time (man hours) this project began as a complete frame off restoration right from the beginning. Attached are pictures of the tear down. My target for the first winter was to have the drive train done. Even with rusty bolts a little heat from an oxy/acetylene torch did the trick in most case bolts and nuts spun off. Its amazing how good WW 2 steel is when you work with it. Well it ended up taking 2 years for this phase. The only major missing item was the rear body, so I started an internet search for one. That story comes later.

Walde Libera · #14 29-02-08, 02:16

Stripped of all parts, the rolling chassis was transported on a trailer and thoroughly sand blasted. re-worked the frame front to back, had to made new rear cross-member and repair a rusted through front cross member. Axles were at this time left alone except for removing the brakes and backing plates so I could move it around easier. Extensive use of the mig welder improved the look greatly in cleaning up any heavy pitting especially in the mid section where there was more exposure to the weather. A couple coats good quality high build etching primer, than 2 coats of the OD color coat finished the job.
Each bolt on accessory piece went through the same process.
I also managed to find a second set of 5-20 inch wheels complete with ID tags.
Comes in handy, leaving a swing set of wheels set you don't have to worry about over spray on the old set and damaging your show rims.

Walde Libera · #15 01-03-08, 18:13

This CGT had no brakes when I got it, no surprise, but once I sandblasted the shoes they came out just like new as they were not being used. No reason to replace shoes as they are the old asbestos type which work better and can take more heat with out damage not like the modern carbon fiber type. Changed all 4 brake slave cylinders with new 1 1/2" brand name jobbers still commercially available.Both differentials were inspected, but I re-torqued all bolts; but great condition otherwise. The only issues were sourcing seals which I usually substituted for modern neoprene seals. These vehicles don't get a lot of usage tend to sit for months and will dry out leather type leaving you with little reminders every where you park. I used a vernier to measure old seals ID and OD measurements and bring the old seals and bearings to the bearing and seal suppliers for match up. The only bearings that I changed were all 4 wheel bearings as they showed signs of water damage and brinelling from sitting in one spot parked for a long time I guess? Kept a list of all jobber part numbers for seals and bearings for the future. This is a 6" front axle set up. I used a heavy coating of Lubriplate brand grease as it has good properties like rust prevention and won't absorb water as much.The rear drums were turned and I had to replace both fronts with NOS ones which I found locally as they were egg shaped.
Gaskets were usually eliminated with a top quality silicon based gasket eliminator at the hub mating flanges, differential covers.I found this prevents most leaks.

gordon · #16 01-03-08, 18:38

That's really good work, you are obviously up to the mechanical work.

I'd never have bought it without a body though. I could see the logic if you had found a body, then went out to buy a cab and chassis to go with it, but I'm assuming Canada is the same as the UK and Europe at least - there are five chassis cabs sitting for every original body you could find.

Bob Carriere · #17 02-03-08, 03:25

..... Doing a great job Walde. What was the date you actually got it home..?

I started mine during a one week power failure in August 2004....feels like last week..... and probably have another two years to go.

Do you have the brake power booster....... we have not been able to source parts for them this side of the pond...... fortunately Dirk has the parts and may have to get them in to finish the job.

I envy the cab space in your cab 13........ I may have to stop drinking beer to loose enough weight to fit in my cab 11...... hihihi

what have you done to the engine yet..... will you run the 216..???

Keep showing us pictures.... most of us can't read......

Boob

Walde Libera · #18 02-03-08, 18:40

I managed to locate a correct partial body at the same time as I bought the CGT. It was at least the important part, the bottom 1/2 complete with doors. The problem was they were 5500km apart. I bought it at the same time as the Chassis with pics sent from the Elliot Bros. in Newtonville Ontario They said I could pic it up later so I restoration of the chassis and front body.A couple years or so later I flew to Toronto on business and made arrangements to ship the body to Vancouver. The Elliot brothers let me spend a day with there own FAT so I drew and recorded measurements the necessary missing portions and took tons of photos after all its mostly sheet metal. Also one of the local Western command members was finishing a cab 11 FAT so I had some access to body configuration details as they are very similar especially at the back. I attached a few pics, this is 15th field CGT just about finished about 4 years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon

I'd never have bought it without a body though. I could see the logic if you had found a body, then went out to buy a cab and chassis to go with it, but I'm assuming Canada is the same as the UK and Europe at least - there are five chassis cabs sitting for every original body you could find.

gordon · #19 02-03-08, 19:13

Well as long as you had it all planned. I'd hate to get a good job done on the mechanicals and be left without a body.

One further problem - what's that cabover down the side in one shot? It looks like it should be a GMC or the like, but I don't recognise the type or the headlight position - got a good image of it?

Gordon

Bob Carriere · #20 02-03-08, 19:19

....but.....but...... I thought you were working on a cab 13.......

did you get a whole cab 12 body from Elliott.......

Boy that generates a whole bunch of questions..... and hopefully more pictures....

did you use a later 13 frame and swap the cab 12..... ??

What kind of problems did you run into with the floor plate of the cab 12 and fitting the levers......

Oh .... by the way... when you have a nice sunnt day and take out the COE inside the lean to..... can we have some pictures....pleeeeze! and its provenance... looks unusual.

Bob

cliff · #21 02-03-08, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon

One further problem - what's that cabover down the side in one shot? It looks like it should be a GMC or the like, but I don't recognise the type or the headlight position - got a good image of it?

Great minds think alike Gordon I was just about to ask the same question about the cab over Chev in the second photo as well

Walde Libera · #22 04-03-08, 06:22

Its a 1941 GMC wireless, a Western Command members vehicle, I don't have a lot of pictures of it right now, just a distant shot at last years Arlington air show. Also a shot of my CGT cab 13 rear body after I stripped it of the rusty bits, its much further along now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon

One further problem - what's that cabover down the side in one shot? It looks like it should be a GMC or the like, but I don't recognise the type or the headlight position - got a good image of it?

Walde Libera · #23 04-03-08, 06:35

No, the CGT cab 12 is not mine, it belongs to 15th field, just another west coast FAT. Mine is cab 13!
I was just making a point the rear end configuration of both CGT's is almost identical. Also a shot of 15th fields, limber and 25 pounder a couple years ago in a very wet Remembrance day parade. I rebuilt my booster from 2 parts boosters , not sure if it works right, it kills the engine when I press the brake pedal, probably due to a massive vacuum leak. I also used a 235 instead of the 216.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

....but.....but...... I thought you were working on a cab 13.......
did you get a whole cab 12 body from Elliott.......

Hanno Spoelstra · #24 04-03-08, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walde

I felt this CGT could be a fully restored driver, so with patience and time (man hours) this project began as a complete frame off restoration right from the beginning. Attached are pictures of the tear down.

Walde,

Thanks for the update. Looks like a job well done!

From the pictures it seems you have done (most of?) the work in a double car garage. Is that right? Space seems too tight, but I guess if you plan well ahead it can be done in tight quarters. Enquiring minds want to know!

Thanks,
Hanno

Walde Libera · #25 05-03-08, 05:49

Hanno

Yes, a 20' X 25' garage with an 8 foot ceiling, stuffed with tools, large mig welder, compressor, oxy/acet set etc, etc. This is the main area where I work on the various phases of a restoration. Job 1, chassis, drive-train, wheels/tires than to storage in the back yard in a 10X20 portable shed. Job 2 was the front cab body assembly, floor frame, doors, roof, nose, fenders. Job 3 is rear body. In my back yard I have lane access where I have a carport and 2 portable shelters, one is used as a temporary paint booth and the other is used for my other vehicles.
Because of the milder weather on the west coast plus the garage is attached to the house it holds heat easier so I can work pretty well work year round. I try to do at least 2 hours per day and full days on most Saturdays and Sundays.
Some of the issues are simply the the added need to keep things under control dirt wise, clutter wise and keep things as clean as possible as our home is part of the garage. For example I have to stop grinding by 9 PM or the kid can't sleep, than flip over to quiet work til 10 PM. My wife Rosella has been exceptionally supportive so in return I make time, stop MV restorations sometimes for months at time and do home renovations, its all about balance. So be prepared to take some extra time to do a good restoration. I try to do something every day, even if its 15 minutes worth of work, every item completed is another step closer to completion. Also cash wise spreading the cost out over a few years allows it to fall into your budget easier. Attached aree some more restoration pics of the drive train in the first phase, I am working towards the completion of the first phase in my updates so I can get to the more current stuff with a few pics of the transfer case and other accessories. I used lots of grease on the shifter before I bolted it up. The only item I couldn't source were the little springs on the end of the shifter that unlock the shifter, they were all rusted away, might have to make them? Still have to work 4 more years of employment before retirement; than I can spend more time relaxing doing MV restorations.

Stuart Kirkham · #26 05-03-08, 13:26

Inspiring stuff Walde.

Always enjoy photos and info of restoration progress.

Bob Carriere · #27 05-03-08, 19:48

Love them filthy pictures......

..... what is that rubber line coming out of the T Case......??? oil cooler???

On the shift tower.... better dig up that famous Lubriplate for those shifting bars before you seal it up...... it is a bad design for rust buildup.....

Keep them coming.....

Bob C.

Grant Bowker · #28 05-03-08, 22:04

Bob, I think the oil line you are looking at is attached to another device that is mainly hidden behind the transfer case. There is also a ring gear visible at the left of the transfer case, where no CMP case should have a ring gear. Based on the Detroit Diesel Allison manuals and some of the tooling seen in the photos, I think Walde may have a sideline in heavy equipment repair.

Bob Carriere · #29 06-03-08, 02:58

.... I think you are correct Sherlock !!!!!!!

From the heavy stell pipe stand Walde is certainly not into repairing fine Swiss Watches.......

No wonder he is doing such a fine job.....

BooB

Walde Libera · #30 07-03-08, 01:30

Yes, at that time I was a mechanical trainer for our bus company so I had liberal use of training room equipment, clear benches, stumps, space. The transmission behind the stump is a B400R Allison, 6 speed with retarder, thats the hose your referring to. I used to work on sub assemblies after work for a couple hours every day. Now I run a depot for the company with 190 buses equipped with Duramax, Detroits, Cummins and Allison transmissions. I do most of my work at home now.
Bob, I did use the white stuff on the transfer case shifter, see! Also attached is the pic of the running 235 I bought for $300 out of a 62 Biscayne. I still did a tear down and rebuilt the engine, valve grind, re-ring, bearings, seal and gaskets.