M38CDN Questions

[Nate Jaros]

Hi guys. I’m new to the forum and am looking for some information on M38 CDNs. There seems to be some good knowledge and discussion here, so I wanted to pose a few questions.

I am considering purchasing a 1952 M38 CDN from a fella here in the States. I have a few concerns as the pics and details he’s sent me don’t quite ‘match up.’ I love to hear what you think about the following potential issues.

1. Data Plates. The original data plates are gone. The ones attached to the dashboard are clearly repops, and the S/N stamped into the plate is the 52-xxxxx Canadian CAR #, and not the typical F-101xxx number from the factory. Seller says there are no other serial numbers anywhere to be found.

2. The seller hasn’t produced a pic of the CAR number stamped into the forward left frame rail, but he says he can get a pic soon and get it to me. I am hopeful.

3. The windshield frame seems legit, but the glass is a split glass setup, which is inconsistent with M38s. And there is only one pneumatic wiper, none on the passenger side.

Aside from that, the M38 looks legit and moderately taken care of. He said it drives great, and operates normally. The 4 wheel drive works well, it doesn’t pop out of 2nd gear, and the carb was recently rebuilt. It does have some tub damage here and there that was poorly fixed with bondo, but otherwise it seems to be a legit M38.

Looking for advice. Thanks guys!

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Nate Jaros

3. The windshield frame seems legit, but the glass is a split glass setup, which is inconsistent with M38s. And there is only one pneumatic wiper, none on the passenger side.

The US army had a MWO for re-purposing M38 windshield glass if one half of it was damaged. I've attached a copy.....sorry about the quality! Maybe the Canadian army adopted a similar method? Worth checking close up how the "split glass setup" on your potential purchase compares to this.

And we want to see photos!

Owen.

[Nate Jaros]

Thank you. Maybe this particular M38 had that mod done to it. Interesting.

As a side note, the seller did just provide a photo of the Canadian CAR# stamp. It looks pretty good!

[David Dunlop]

Nate.

Have you got any photos of the front cowl directly in front of the driver?

Quite a number of M38 CDN’s up here were fitted with Southwind Gas Personnel Heater Kits. These mounted on the cowl with a rectangular pattern of bolts right in front of the driver. The windshield assembly then got a major makeover.

The Ventilation Cover bottom centre was removed and tossed. Likewise the two lower gun rack brackets. Wipers were relocated to above the glass and the vacuum feed for same relocated up the left side of the windscreen. Holes were also drilled up the left side of the windshield frame to mount the heater exhaust pipe. More holes drilled directly above the left side windshield clamp to mount the heater control box.

To mount the interior duct work, the plate on the dash holding all the data plates was removed and all the plates drilled off. The plates were then attached to the defroster box that ran along the lower portion of the windscreen. The mounting plate was tossed.

When the vehicles were sold off, all the heater kits were removed prior to sale, so you ended up with jeeps with lots of holes in the windshields and maybe even some rust growing inside the left frame and no data plates. Your vehicle could be one of these. Somebody probably bought whatever windshield they could find to replace the original and get rid of all the missing bits problem.

Another part of the kit was a Safety Valve mounted on the inner left fender, behind and below the horn. The holes might still be down there if this jeep was so equipped.

The last possibility for true Canadian heritage will be signs of a convoy lamp being installed. The toggle switch and data plate were fitted lower left side dash, either vertical or horizontal, below the brake handle and the lamp on the rear cross member under the vehicle, slightly right of centre and aimed at the back of the rear differential case, the centre rear cover of which was painted white.

This would be the easiest explanation for all the odd things you have described.

Best regards,

David

[Nate Jaros]

Thanks David. That is some great information! Here are a few more shots from the seller, unfortunately it’s pretty far for me to go have a look easily.

[Nate Jaros]

Sorry, having upload problems on other photos.

[Owen Evans]

Attached some photos from the Southwind installation manual, which give a good indication of where to spot the extra holes that David mentioned. I'm reasonably sure that all the M38 CDN's had that large 4-1/8" hole in the dash, btw......on the US-built ones, they started installing that hole in the factory mid/late 1951 (I think!).

I see from your photo that the jeep doesn't have the YS carb or the M38 crossover tube.....but those are very minor details, and easy to rectify if you really wanted to; personally, I would run it just as it is!

Owen.

[Nate Jaros]

Got a good zoomed in shot of the hood area in front of the driver’s seat. Doesn’t initially look like any holes present. Man... I wish I could get there to see this in person.

[Nate Jaros]

Although there is something attached to the center of the windshield below the glass. Like a plate or something. Is that normally there?

[David Dunlop]

Hello again, Nate.

I do not know if US Army M38’s were so equipped, but in the front photos you just posted, you can just see the sets of one large and one small hole at the fronts of the fenders and in line with the length of the fenders where the M38CDN turn signal lamps were installed.

I also see a potential ‘red flag’ for you in the earlier photo of the front, looking down behind the bumper. I can see what looks like a pneumatic damper bolted to the tie rod assembly. That commercial add-on is nearly always fitted to stop a bad case of tramp, or gallop in the front end, where at a given point in acceleration, or after hitting a bump in the road, the whole front end of the vehicle starts to shake alarmingly. The damper cures the symptoms but not the problem, which can be as simple as unbalanced front tires, flat front springs, worn out tie rod ends, worn out guide pin in the steering box, or any combination of all these factors. Something worth asking about in any event.

You might also want to see what information the guys here on MLU can dig up for you based on the CFR Number stamped on the front frame. At the least, you will get some or all of the basic service history and possibly luck into some better idea of what the serial number might be.

Best regards,

David

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I do not know if US Army M38’s were so equipped, but in the front photos you just posted, you can just see the sets of one large and one small hole at the fronts of the fenders and in line with the length of the fenders where the M38CDN turn signal lamps were installed.

Hello David,

The US Army MWO for turn signals specifies discarding the marker lights in the grill, and replacing with the larger marker lights (8376368) as used on the M37 (and other larger trucks). Have to say, the M38 looks pretty ugly with those lights fitted onto the grill. Some info photos are attached. All that being said, I found a picture of an M38 in service with the US Air Force in the UK......if you look just in front of the BO drive light, it seems like they've fitted "butler" style marker lights to the wings?

Note the US Army MWO also states that it should be applied "only to trucks in, or destined for shipment to, USAREUR and applied on an as required basis....". So, there's a high probability that any US-built M38's that spent all their service life stateside never had turn signals fitted.

Owen.