1944-45 Jeep Questions

[Johan WILLAERT]

Our local museum ( http://www.forfreedommuseum.be ), honoring the 1944 liberation of our region by Canadian troops, has recently acquired a GPW Jeep.

The jeep was driven by its former owner for several decades and is a typical resto job from the 1970/80s... It is now awaiting a full frame-up rebuild.

Since this GPW will be put on display as well as being used as a mobile publicity tool for the museum, it will be restored and marked as a Jeep used by the Canadian Forces late in WW2 (Glengarrians, 9th Inf Bde, 3rd Infantry Division, late 1944-1945), Motorpool Restoration...

This GPW being a later production model or a mix of various parts should/could fit into the 1944 Canadian order of 3500 standard US type Jeeps (50% new and 50% reconditioned) as desribed on page 435 of Lloyd White's Jeep Book Part 1.

A few questions have arised....

1. Were the Jeeps from the 1944 order shipped with a USA Hood Number or without a number? If delivered with a blue drab USA number, were these painted over before the CM number was applied or was the CM number painted on top of the Original blue drab number?

2. Commonly the passenger side headlight was covered by a bridging plate and the driver's side light was replaced by a BO lamp upon delivery. What kind of BO light was fitted? Type and a picture would be great!

3. Were they fitted with a standard US model Fire Extinguisher or a British one in the Original bracket? What about the M2 Decontaminator?

4. The Original ACM2 body has the holes in the dash for the FA kit. Were these included in this Canadian contract?


Would appreciate thoughts and answers to the above, and I'm sure many more questions will come to mind as we go...


THANKS!

Meanwhile two pictures of what we're starting with...

09th January 2016


http://s153.photobucket.com/user/joh...n16-1.jpg.html


http://s153.photobucket.com/user/joh...n16-2.jpg.html

[Peter Phillips]

Very nice looking rig to start with. I'm sure there's a ton of expertise on this forum but I do suggest you also look into the G503 Forum info. Some very knowledgeable folks over there too.

[Johan WILLAERT]

Thanks Peter...

Having been a member of the G for over 10 years; I ad already posted my questions there too...

I know my way about US versions of the Jeep, but have many questions on the Canadian contracts...

Cheers

[Peter Phillips]

Good to hear Johan! I'm sure someone will come up with the information you're looking for. I'll be watching this restoration

[Eric B]

Hello Johan

I will be able to answer some of those questions.

1- The GPW's we bought would have had the USA numbers painted on them as my understanding is that they were painted on at the factory.

They would have been painted over once Canada bought them. Those shipped overseas would have had the War Department number starting with a CM assigned to them once they were assigned to a Unit.

2- Sometimes one headlight was removed or the bridge plate was just placed over the headlight. The other bulb was not always replaced by the earlier blackout bulb, especially later in the war.

3- Fire Extinguisher was usually the US one as it was suppose to come with the vehicle. However it was replaced with the CDN/British one if it was not included.

4- First aid kits were not part of the contract but some brackets might have been left on some of the used vehicles.

- We generally did not mount a decontamination kit on the Jeep. They were not a general issue item.

The Overflow Kit was not acquired by Canada and i have not seen any period photos with one attached. I have seen them with the holes drilled, which means they were most likely removed before delivery to Canada.

The modern Canadian flag on rear bumperette would not have been used nor the RCAF Roundel on the Overflow Kit. The Roundel was used only by the RCAF and units in Italy.

GPW's would have been left in the US Khaki paint, if repainted near the end of the war some ended up semi gloss.

The later issue vehicles did not generally have the US star, (To much of a target) the circle was not commonly applied on CDN vehicles.

I hope this helps

If you provide me the Serial number i can see if it is in my data base.

Thanks

Eric

[Johan WILLAERT]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Eric...

Haven't checked the frame number yet, will do so after disassembly next month......
Most likely this jeep was originally not issued to the Canadian Army, but since the museum is all about the liberation of the low countries by the Canadians, it will be restored to represent a standard Jeep delivered to, and used by the Canadian 3rd Division in 1944/45...

Cheers,

Johan

[Johan WILLAERT]

Update on the restoration... GPW has been completely restored from the frame up...
Still need to finish some electrical details, windshield and then markings...

Quite a difference in three months (27th February and 14th June 2016)...


http://s153.photobucket.com/user/joh...6%203.jpg.html


http://s153.photobucket.com/user/joh...6%202.jpg.html

[simon king]

Would a late GPW have been fitted with a Sheller steering wheel. Surely the steel spoked steering wheel originally fitted would be correct.

Sk

[Johan WILLAERT]

Originally Posted by simon king

Would a late GPW have been fitted with a Sheller steering wheel. Surely the steel spoked steering wheel originally fitted would be correct.

Yes, at first glance you are correct...

Because of the ACM II body I assumed it was a late production GPW.
However during disassembly we discovered the original frame number which is GPW62754. It came off the Louisville, KY, assembly line on 7th September 1942 with original hood number U.S.A. 20150051.

Basically it is an early frame and drivetrain, fenders and hood with a late body. The hood has neither holes for the grease gun bracket, nor those for the lube guide... The windshield does not have the gun rack brackets...

It was clear this fairly early GPW had its Ford body replaced with an ACMII tub at some point in its service...
So we decided to keep everything not related to the body early style, while keeping all body accessories matching the late ACMII tub.

Originally GPW62754 would have made with a green Sheller steering wheel... The spoke steering wheel that came on the Jeep had been adapted with a longer steering rod and tube (visible on the first picture) to fit a taller and heavier driver so we went back to the original steering set-up...

In the end it is a mix of early and late parts but still representative of one of the reconditioned Jeeps delivered to the Canadian Army from US Stocks in 1944...

Within the next few weeks the windshield and top will be added, along with markings for the Glenngarian Infantry of the 3rd Division...

Thanks for your interest,

Johan

[david moore]

Johan
I think the unit you are referring to is the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders from Eastern Ontario around Cornwall, Ontario. They included units of the Princess of Wales Own militia regiment from the Kingston, Ontario region. The divisional marking on the drivers' side, front (beneath the windshield) and back (on the bumperette), would be a French gray rectangle with a yellow(gold) maple leaf. The unit marking on the passenger side would be a brown rectangle with a white number 68. The census number on the hood sides (and sometimes the rear) would be CM 42xxxxx
Hope this helps

David Moore, Kingston, Ontario

[Johan WILLAERT]

Yes, it does confirm what I had already found!

Thanks a lot!

[maple_leaf_eh]

Johan, the SD&G Highlanders ("Sand, Dirt and Gravel") have (had?) an active regimental museum at one end of their armour in Cornwall. The unit still exists and is well integrated with the social and connected parts of society in that community.

Go ahead and ask what they know about this vehicle (likely not much), or if they have any suggestions for markings.

Regimental Museum
c/o Commanding Officer
Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders
Cornwall Armoury
505 4th St East
Cornwall, ON
K6H 2J7

[Johan WILLAERT]

Thank you! I will forward that bit of info to the museum curator and Jeep owner, Fred Jones who was made honorary member of the Regt a couple of years ago...

http://www.glensassociation.ca/about...orary-members/

Cheers,

Johan

[Johan WILLAERT]

Here's an example...

[Eric B]

Hello Johan

looking good

My closest serial number on file is GPW62757 , which was used by the 21 Army Group and had WD number CM4284105.

The serial number had no relation to the WD number. The WD number was only assigned once the vehicle was assigned to a unit.

I do not have your GPW on file. If not CDN It could have been a US or British vehicle turned over post war.


My GPW is 62566, which is Sept 1942. The GPW engine was found in a CDN contract 242, I added it to an early frame to create my GPW.

thanks
Eric

[Johan WILLAERT]

Thanks Eric...

I don't think this Jeep was originally used by the Canadian Forces in Europe in WW2, but still a representative example.

Cheers,

Johan

[Johan WILLAERT]

Jeep is now finished and awaiting markings for the 3rd Division...

Can someone give me some RAL codes for the French Grey field and Golden yellow Maple Leaf markings??? Thanks


http://s153.photobucket.com/user/joh...Aug16.jpg.html

[Frantisek Nachlinger]

Great job, Johan!

[Ed Storey]

That is a nice looking Jeep!

[Johan WILLAERT]

Thanks both!

Hey Ed, let me know next time you're at the museum... Still have that ammo crate for you...

[Ed Storey]

Yes, I am not sure when I will be back in the Knokke region. Perhaps the spring.

ED

[Johan WILLAERT]

Just let me or Fred know when you're passing by...

One more question about bridge plate numbers...

I've been looking at original Jeep pictures and I see numbers 2,5 and even 6 on jeep bridge plates...
What would be most correct on this particular Jeep?

Thanks

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Johan WILLAERT

One more question about bridge plate numbers...

I've been looking at original Jeep pictures and I see numbers 2,5 and even 6 on jeep bridge plates...
What would be most correct on this particular Jeep?

Johan,

Nice result on the Jeep!

Read more about Bridge Classification Signs at http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...lemarkings.htm

HTH,
Hanno

[Lynn Eades]

I cannot imagine why one would display a 5 or 6 ton bridge plate on a Jeep of this type.

[Johan WILLAERT]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I cannot imagine why one would display a 5 or 6 ton bridge plate on a Jeep of this type.

Me neither, but still plenty of pictures show plates with a 5 on Jeeps in Western Europe in 1944/45

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Since from 1940 onwards the lowest bridge Class was 5, apparently there was no need to classify vehicles with a lower weight "impact".

By the book, a jeep was a to display a Class 1 sign, but since the lightest bridges were Class 5, apparently all vehicles lighter than 5 tons could display a Class 5 sign as none of them would be too heavy to cross the lightest (the Class 5) bridge in use at that time.

Quote from http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...lemarkings.htm:

The 1940 regulations designated Class 5, 9, 12, 18, and 24 bridges, while by 1944, regulations stated that bridge classes would include Class 5, 7, 9, 12, 16, 18, 20, 24, 30, 35, 40, 50, 60, and 70.

The number designated the maximum weight class of vehicles which could safely cross that type of bridge.

These vehicle weight classifications did not necessarily denote the actual weight in tons of the vehicle (though for tracked vehicles the numbers often coincided.) The classifications were instead derived from considerations such as axle loading, distance between axles, and impact factor.

Bridges were to be marked with signs indicating the class, as was the route on which vehicular traffic would take to the bridge (with sufficient notice given to drivers who would need to divert due to their vehicle's weight).

Vehicles were likewise to be classified and marking applied designating the load they would impose on a bridge. The classes were designated in multiples of one ton, with the minimum being 1. A motorcycle was classified as a Class 1 vehicle, as well, motorcycles and motorcycle combinations (i.e. with sidecar) did not have bridging discs.

Vehicle classifications were rated so that they could cross a bridge with the same, or greater, numerical designation. For example, a Class 12 vehicle could safely cross a Class 12 bridge or a Class 18 bridge, but not a Class 5 bridge.

[Johan WILLAERT]

Thanks Hanno, will go with the 5 then...

Meanwhile unit markings have been applied...


http://s153.photobucket.com/user/joh...Sep16.jpg.html

[Robert Bergeron]

Hello my friend. Nice restoration . I see the 3 rd Division tactical sign. What does the 68 stand for please ? Thanks.

[Ed Storey]

Type in 'tactical sign 68 3rd canadian division' and voila....

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...lemarkings.htm

magically appears.

[Jordan Baker]

Ive always found this site great for looking up vehicle markings.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~gdavidson1/home.html