Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

Jacques Reed · #1 08-03-13, 23:29

Quote:

Also received these two NOS exhaust hangers. One will make a reasonable copy of an original with some reworking. The other may not get used. Depends on how close to original I want to go.

This may be of interest:
Here's a photo of what I am 99% certain is the rear muffler to chassis hanger for Ford CMP trucks as I have seen the same on three vehicles this past week. Still, I have been wrong before here. I am in the process of straightening it out, but with the extremely hot weather here I do not want to fire up the "blue tongued lizard" (oxy-acetylene torch for non-Australian readers). No use scaring the neighbors!

Bending steel cold can only be done so many times before it snaps and it is not worth stuffing it up.

It mounts 6" behind the face of the transfer case cross-member in the lowest hole in the frame rail.

I am thinking it is the same dimensions, minus the bends, as the hard to find tailpipe bracket that attaches to the left rear fuel tank bracket. it is 1/16" thick, 1-1/4" wide, and 9-1/4" from the center of the clamp to the end.
Can anyone confirm if it is the same? If so, I will use it as a pattern to make that bracket.

Cheers,

Private_collector · #2 09-03-13, 11:14

G' Day Jacques,

You are 100% correct. That is the right part, according to my manual.

If you don't mind, I will save a copy of that photo you posted. Clearest photo I have seen so far.

Here's a question you may also be able to answer. Are Ford CMP transmission parts interchangable with civvy stuff of the same year. I need main shaft bearings, gaskets, throw-out bearing and clutch shaft bushes.

I disassembled the gearbox/trans this afternoon. All of the gears, shafts, and roller bearings are really good. The case got treated to a lengthy scrub and degrease. Then went over the whole thing with the twisted wire cup. Even the inspection plate and screws were good enough to use. Despite 70+ years of life, the machined parts still had near razor sharp edges on some of em. Guess how I found out?

Made that discovery a number of times acutally, but did get everything real clean and ready for reassembly.

One thing I have NEVER seen for sale is the grease lubricating hose that goes to the throwout bearing. I may have to get one made, if that is even possible. I have the remains of a couple of em, but they ard strictly pattern material only.

If the gearbox case is good enough, I may get it painted tomorrow. If i'm unsure, i'll mask it off, for blasting through the week.

Jacques Reed · #3 10-03-13, 00:45

Hi Tony,

Yes, anyone is welcome to save any photo I post on MLU. All part of disseminating information to keep these vehicles alive.
The bracket sure looks like the real deal according to the parts manual, but with CMP's I've learned never to assume anything is original after 70 years of various owners!

FYI: the bend where it becomes vertical to the tailpipe is 2 7/8" from the other bend where it attaches to the chassis rail. This puts it right against the inside edge of the frame rail at that point. That, at least, locates the tailpipe end of the muffler.

Transmissions: Again 99% certain they are the same as 4 speed civilian trucks of that era. Unfortunately they are not the same as the slightly later synchronized truck gearboxes despite similar appearances. I had researched that possibility a while back but the gear case is too long unless someone wants to butcher the rear transmission cross-member to make it fit. Sorry I even suggested it!

The throwout bearing lube hose: I am sure I have seen them somewhere for sale. Will have a good look around and see if I can locate where they were and let you know. Interesting construction they are. Almost like a bathtub plug chain in the middle with a rubber coating. Strange!!!

Cheers,

Private_collector · #4 10-03-13, 00:57

Cheers Mate,

I have to remove the lubing hose from another gearbox this morning, so i'll check that out. Certainly is a strange manufacture.

I have sent an email to MIBearings in US. They are the ones I ordered the rear gearbox mount seal from. They have both the BB7025 & BB7065 bearings that I am wanting for the main shaft. If first searches are anything to go by, they seem to have a large range of bearings & seals for vintage applications.

Jacques Reed · #5 10-03-13, 05:24

Hi Tony,

Just remembered where I saw them!

Ajay's Ford Parts in NZ.

Part B 7557 B is on page 50 of their downloadable online catalogue. $18.00 NZ.

It is listed for earlier vehicles but worth a call/email to see if it is the same as used in WW2 CMP's.

I bought a few things from them many years ago when they were located in Auckland and found them to be very good.

Cheers,

Tony Smith · #6 10-03-13, 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Here's a question you may also be able to answer. Are Ford CMP transmission parts interchangable with civvy stuff of the same year. I need main shaft bearings, gaskets, throw-out bearing and clutch shaft bushes.

I have sent an email to MIBearings in US. They have both the BB7025 & BB7065 bearings that I am wanting for the main shaft.

Those bearings are probably available right here in town! P/No BB7025 is a 6209 bearing while BB7065 is a 6307. Take your old bearings in to a bearing supply place so they can match the particular features of seal and circlip groove location. The bearings I used were 6209LLUC and 6307ZU1, but I think I then had to pry a rubber seal out of one side(??).

Throw out bearing is BCA 2065 (again, should be available locally or from various sources online), while the clutch shaft bushes should be available generically but I don't hve a part number. I bought mine from this seller on e-bay. (Hint: Check out his other items too!)

Private_collector · #7 10-03-13, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I bought mine from this seller on e-bay. (Hint: Check out his other items too!)

G'Day Tony!

I shop with Century as well. They were my choice for some of the little bits, including the clutch shaft bushes. I will also order some of the lock-wire. I went to EVERY auto shop and mechanical supplies in Gympie on Saturday, and NO ONE has this wire. REPCO & Autobarn staff didn't even know what it was. Goes to show that shop is only as good as the person you talk to on the day.

ADDED 20:40hrs
I have now ordered those bushes, and quite a few other small bits too. I also asked if their 7025 & 7065 bearings will suit the 4 speed box. I have been caught out before with correct part nos. that were a different size. Even where the prefixes were same!

Tony Smith · #8 13-03-13, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Those bearings are probably available right here in town! P/No BB7025 is a 6209 bearing while BB7065 is a 6307. Take your old bearings in to a bearing supply place so they can match the particular features of seal and circlip groove location. The bearings I used were 6209LLUC and 6307ZU1, but I think I then had to pry a rubber seal out of one side(??).

Throw out bearing is BCA 2065 (again, should be available locally or from various sources online), while the clutch shaft bushes should be available generically but I don't hve a part number. I bought mine from this seller on e-bay.

Well done! Do those bearings have the retaining groove and clip around the outside?

Seeing as you've now got such a good relationship with your local bearing shop, when the clutch release shaft bushes arrive from Century, before you fit them, take them into the bearing shop and see if they can assign a current part number for them. I realise US$10pr is pretty fairly priced, but you never know if it can be beat. Having a brand and number would be a good start. I had a set many years ago that I think were either Federal Mogul or TRW, but I've long forgotten the number.

Private_collector · #9 13-03-13, 19:44

Tony,

Will do with the bushes.

The MDG bearings don't have a groove for a clip. The originals didn't either.

Tony Wheeler · #10 10-03-13, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Here's a photo of what I am 99% certain is the rear muffler to chassis hanger for Ford CMP trucks...I am in the process of straightening it out...Bending steel cold can only be done so many times before it snaps...I am thinking it is the same dimensions, minus the bends, as the hard to find tailpipe bracket that attaches to the left rear fuel tank bracket. If so, I will use it as a pattern to make that bracket.

Jacques, I forgot to mention the bracket you have is off the gun tractor you were driving last week, it's definitely original, but someone had repositioned it on the chassis, which is why they've flattened out the bend. I had to remove it when I rigged up a new muffler to keep the neighbours happy! I'm sure it can be re-bent with some heat, although as you say it may be prone to cracking now, from being hammered flat when cold. I imagine there's a bit of flexing at that point during normal driving.

However we discovered I have another one on my F60S, I think you may have taken a photo. I should have taken that one off to give you, it's in perfect condition, with the remains of an original muffler by the look of it. I'll whip it off tomorrow and stick it in the mail, that way you can install it now and not worry about potential cracking. Also, as a pattern, you can get the bend position correct, and you could even flatten out the FGT one completely to get the blank dimensions correct. Not that it's critical of course, but nice to get things accurate, esp. if you're doing a drawing.

You're correct about the rearmost bracket too Jacques, I'll post some pics here shortly.

Tony Wheeler · #11 10-03-13, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

I am thinking it is the same dimensions, minus the bends, as the hard to find tailpipe bracket that attaches to the left rear fuel tank bracket.

As you say Jacques they do seem hard to find. Not one of my vehicles has one, but surprisingly there's one on this stripped down F15A chassis. This $200 pile of blitz bits off ebay is proving to be quite handy (eagle eyes may notice 25pdr wheel on rear) but unfortunately the winch is homebuilt from a Ford axle - something I failed to detect on the ebay pic!

Anyway the bracket is clearly the same as the front one, sans bends, and possibly a bit shorter. There's also a support strap underneath, presumably to minimize flexing over rough terrain...? I imagine this piece would have been straight originally, and was possibly bent by a size 12 boot using the tailpipe as a convenient step!

I'll stick these in the mail too Jacques, you're welcome to keep them but I'll definitely need drawings eventually, unless someone stumbles on a box of NOS!

Private_collector · #12 10-03-13, 11:48

Jacques, ole pal, you are my new best friend! Thanks for posting the place to get those grease lines. I found another one here today, that I had on another spare gearbox. It looked to be in great shape, UNTIL the removal, when it crumbled to bits, like the dead sea scrolls!

Also thanks to the other Tonys! Those photos will assist me greatly. Looks like the brackets are more easily sourced than expected.

The weather today was far from ideal. I wasn't comfortable trying to continue stripping front end between rain squals. So what do you do when the rain is coming and going all day long? You paint a gearbox case, of course. At least it's kinda portable. Must have carried it in/out of the workshop about ten times in total, but it's now painted and ready for the guts to start going back in.
Box stripped 1.jpg Box primed 1.jpg Box painted.jpg Box painted 1.jpg
It will be interesting to do a comparisn of local VS overseas prices on the bearings, if I can. The results may be surprising. The seal I bought for gearbox rear is $11.50ish. I bought two. Adding the shipping cost still has them landed here for under $50.00.
Box disassembled 1.jpg
When it comes time to put all the bits back together again, I hope the roughly two dozen photos I took of the disassembly go in my favor. Couldn't hoit!

Tony Wheeler · #13 10-03-13, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Looks like the brackets are more easily sourced than expected.

Yes, after searching the net I don't think they're worth fabricating, so there's probably not much point making drawings - which is good news for Jacques!

Closest I've found is this $30 kit which contains 3 brackets, all of which could be used with minimal modification and be undetectable as non-original:

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....Z5Z5Z50000019A

Mac's have the same kit:

http://macsautoparts.com/ford-pickup...0R3CHL1143645/

Jacques, I imagine these brand new brackets may change your plans a bit so I'll leave the old rusty ones where they are for the moment!

Jacques Reed · #14 11-03-13, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Yes, after searching the net I don't think they're worth fabricating, so there's probably not much point making drawings - which is good news for Jacques!

Closest I've found is this $30 kit which contains 3 brackets, all of which could be used with minimal modification and be undetectable as non-original:

Jacques, I imagine these brand new brackets may change your plans a bit so I'll leave the old rusty ones where they are for the moment!

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your information. I did buy a Dennis Carpenter exhaust bracket set a while back but there was not enough length on the longest one to make the bracket that attaches to the fuel tank bracket as shown in the photo.
Yes, thought about the adding a length of flat bar to an existing clamp in the set but forgot about the asymmetrical design too. Good spotting. The set did give up a good old design 2" muffler clamp when I wiggled the poorly spot welded clip attached to it shown in the centre of the photo. Thank God for Dennis Carpenter's poor Chinese made stuff. Saved drilling out a spot weld!

Will check out the supplier mentioned.

When you get a chance Tony would you be kind enough to give me the dimension between the centre of the bolt hole on the clamp to the centre of the first hole where it attaches to the fuel tank bracket then I can work out the length and see if their bracket will do the job. Many thanks again for all your help and a great afternoon with the trucks.

Cheers,

Tony Wheeler · #15 11-03-13, 11:51

Hi Jacques,

Attached pics show rear tailpipe bracket dimensions as measured in situ, I'll need to remove and straighten it for complete accuracy. I'm pretty sure your Dennis Carpenter bracket will reach the first hole in the petrol tank bracket, and the hole for the rubber mount may be conveniently close to the correct location. Clearly it will need to be extended to reach the second hole, which means butt welding a piece of 1 1/4" strap to the end. The support strap will prevent any flexing at the join so it shouldn't fail. They could even be spot welded together for complete confidence.

The front tailpipe bracket is the offset clamp type, of which there are 3 in the Mac's 48-52 Pickup set. These are considerably longer and will reach the chassis rail, but will still need to be extended to bolt in the original hole. This would have to be an overlap join as there's no support strap, however it would be inside the chassis rail where it wouldn't be seen.

I think that's the solution for tailpipe brackets, clearly it's not worth trying to fabricate new ones when these items from Mac's can be easily modified. The required kits are:

Ford CMP front tailpipe bracket (48-52 Pickup set): http://macsautoparts.com/ford-pickup...0R3CHL1143645/

Ford CMP rear tailpipe bracket (35-38 Pickup set): http://macsautoparts.com/early-ford-...R3CHL1141416E/

I've ordered both sets and will test these mods when they arrive and post results here for general info.

Of course, the 48-52 Pickup set will serve for both brackets, the only difference being the offset clamp on the rear, which is hardly likely to be noticed. After all, we didn't even know there were two types until today!

Private_collector · #16 11-03-13, 12:37

article17775683-3-001.jpg article42320187-3-001.jpg article52474632-3-001.jpg article64703019-3-001.jpg

Jacques Reed · #17 12-03-13, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Attached pics show rear tailpipe bracket dimensions as measured in situ,

I think that's the solution for tailpipe brackets, clearly it's not worth trying to fabricate new ones when these items from Mac's can be easily modified.

Hi Tony,

Again, thanks for you great help and good suggestions. In the interim I will go using one of my Dennis Carpenter brackets welded to a flat strip to make the tailpipe bracket that attaches to the fuel tank bracket. It will look reasonable and position it in the right location anyway thanks also to the dimensions you supplied.

May scratch build that bracket later when I get the urge to do a bit of metal working. Should be relatively easy as the original brackets are made of lighter gauge steel than the Dennis Carpenter repro's.

Cheers.

Keith Webb · #18 10-03-13, 11:25

Shame I only have one...

Tony Wheeler · #19 10-03-13, 11:46

Oops...I tried to edit my post and managed to delete it! Here it is again:

Another option for tailpipe brackets would be to bolt a replacement clamp onto the appropriate length strap. It wouldn't be perfect but it would pretty close and would save a lot of fabrication work. This mob appears to have the correct clamp (bottom left of top pic):

http://www.cgfordparts.com/wwwsectio...LAMPS/HARDWARE

Also Mac's have a bracket with the correct clamp:

http://macsautoparts.com/early-ford-...R3CHL1141416E/

Evidently there are brackets available too:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-1952-Fo...p2047675.l2557

Keith, your clamp is pretty close but the "correct" one is asymmetrical.