Mb jeep tranfer case oil seal

Little Jo · #1 25-01-12, 03:11

Hi guys

I noticed that there was some oil leaking from the Forward Counter Shaft of the Transfer Case on my 1942 MB Willys Jeep. This is a bit annoying as my Jeep is stored on a carpeted floor in my garage. I stripped the parts down to reveal the leaking oil seal, see item "19" shown on the attacment.

I tried everything to remove the oil seal including using pullers but everything I did failed to budge the culprit. I thought of using a screw driver and hammer to try and destroy the seal, but then I thought if I am wrong I would do more damage than good.

I seek advice from any MLU member who may have had a similar problem with their Transfer Case forward Counter shaft Oil Seal and who may have successfully removed and replaced the new oil seal. The workshop manual does not say much on how to remove the oil seal apart in one sentence it says to use a driver??? to remove it. Now I know am not that bright, but anyone knows you can't get a golf club or a car driver into that little hole.

I look forward to hearing from someone who has had a successful extraction and re-insertion with the troublesome oil seal.

Cheers

Tony

rob love · #2 25-01-12, 03:18

Item 19 is a shifter shaft seal, not the counter shaft seal. I don't think there even is a forward countershaft seal....the shaft just sits in the case and does not go thru.

If it is indeed the shifter shaft you are trying to remove, they can be a bit stubborn. You are not far off with your idea about the screw driver and hammer to pry it out, however you must use caution that you do not score the shaft. Puncture the metal of the seal and pry it as best you can.

jason meade · #3 25-01-12, 03:32

Tony You can use a small chisle and hammer to cut it out but they are a real bi%&@ to do while the case to still togeather, for 20.00 bucks you can get both front and rear oil seals and the gaskets, Just take off the front of the transfer case slide your shifters in gear and it all will slide off the front of the case..Then you have access to the rear of the oil seal 1 hour and a six pack later its done,you can even leave the transfer case in the jeep just undo the snubber mount and the six bolts and pull the shift pins.
Jason

Richard Coutts-Smith · #4 25-01-12, 05:35

The garage has a CARPETED floor!
Trust the lampshades have matching shades....
Rich

Little Jo · #5 25-01-12, 08:11

Jason/Rob

Thanks guys for your imput, I now have more confidance to tackle the job, being careful not to scour the side walls.

Cheers

Tony

Little Jo · #6 25-01-12, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

The garage has a CARPETED floor!
Trust the lampshades have matching shades....
Rich

Hi Rich

Yes mate my Jeep lives in luxury, I have to take into account the age of the old girl and the hard life lived before I rescued her from a cold and damp lean too on a farm. I thought she deserved to spend the rest of her days in comfort. Oh by the way she is kept company by the No: 4 trailer in the carpeted garage.

Cheers

Tony

Lynn Eades · #7 25-01-12, 08:55

One way to try to remove the seal is with a slide hammer. Panel beaters used a slide hammer with a self tapping screw welded to a nut on the slide hammer. Carefully drill a hole into the steel body of the seal. Wind the screw into the seal, hook up the slide hammer, and try it.
The old war time seals are steel bodied with leather and quite deep, and will be hard to get out. You might have to have 2 or 3 goes at it, but each time the screw pulls out of the hole it tends to reduce the dia. of the seal body. A neoprene seal will come out easier.
Oh, by the way, oil weeping from seals with an occasional drip was quite acceptable when your jeep was built. Have your self an ali drip tray or two made up to sit under her.

Little Jo · #8 25-01-12, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

One way to try to remove the seal is with a slide hammer. Panel beaters used a slide hammer with a self tapping screw welded to a nut on the slide hammer. Carefully drill a hole into the steel body of the seal. Wind the screw into the seal, hook up the slide hammer, and try it.
The old war time seals are steel bodied with leather and quite deep, and will be hard to get out. You might have to have 2 or 3 goes at it, but each time the screw pulls out of the hole it tends to reduce the dia. of the seal body. A neoprene seal will come out easier.
Oh, by the way, oil weeping from seals with an occasional drip was quite acceptable when your jeep was built. Have your self an ali drip tray or two made up to sit under her.

Hi Lynn

Thanks mate, that is some good advice and I will try and hopefully be successful. I will let the group know how I get on.

Cheers

Tony

Alex Blair (RIP) · #9 25-01-12, 14:53

Jo..
Use a Speedi Sleve and leave the old seal alone..
the quickest and sensible way
to repair worn shafts
To seal efficiently, radial shaft seals must run against a
smooth round surface - the seal counterface. If the
counterface becomes worn, and it usually does, then the
seal will no longer be able to fulfil its function, which is
to retain lubricant and to exclude contaminants - solid
particles as well as liquid.
Normally, the counterface will become grooved as a
contaminant particle is caught under the seal lip and
abrades a track as the shaft rotates. As this continues, the
seal will allow more particles to pass or get stuck, and
seal efficiency deteriorates, eventually leading to malfunction
of the component the seal is meant to protect.
To rectify the situation it is necessary to repair the
SPEEDI-SLEEVE® GOLD with a surface
hardness between 80 and 85 HRC for
heavy-duty applications.
counterface on the shaft - a simple seal replacement will
not be sufficient.
To repair the shaft it is usually necessary to dismantle
the machine in order to be able to handle the shaft and
then to grind down the counterface until it is smooth
again. If the grooves are deep the original size of seal
will no longer fit properly - a seal with a smaller bore
diameter has to be found.
Now there is an easy way to repair the counterface
with the shaft still in position and without having to look
for a different size of seal. The answer is the SPEEDISLEEVE

jason meade · #10 25-01-12, 18:44

However, using a speedysleeve still requires you to put a new oil seal in or you will end up with the same problem, besides you cant use a sleeve in that area anyway as your yoke for the drive shaft slides over it with a castle nut on the end.

Lynn Eades · #11 25-01-12, 19:25

Its a selector shaft seal.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #12 25-01-12, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Its a selector shaft seal.

Thanks Lynn..
Sounded like a yoke shaft seal..before it was idented.,..
I noticed that there was some oil leaking from the Forward Counter Shaft of the Transfer Case on my 1942 MB Willys Jeep.
Thanks.

jason meade · #13 25-01-12, 20:51

Opps I was looking at the output seal...My mistake.

Little Jo · #14 26-01-12, 00:23

Hi Jason - Alex - Lynn

Thanks guys for the input, very interesting following your comments and I apologise for using incorrect terminology, ie: "Counter Shaft'. I can see one must be more acturate when seeking advice. As a novice in these things, my confidence is growing with the good advice. Thanks guys.

Cheers

Tony

jason meade · #15 26-01-12, 01:11

Hey Tony With your picture in your first post, was it 19 or 30 that oil is leaking from? Because if its parked and oil is leaking from 19 with out running, you may want to drain about 6 liters of oil out of it...your oil level shouldent be that high, if it is then you have bigger problems as oil is migrating from the t-84 wich it shouldent.
Jason

Little Jo · #16 26-01-12, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason meade

Hey Tony With your picture in your first post, was it 19 or 30 that oil is leaking from? Because if its parked and oil is leaking from 19 with out running, you may want to drain about 6 liters of oil out of it...your oil level shouldent be that high, if it is then you have bigger problems as oil is migrating from the t-84 wich it shouldent.
Jason

Hi Jason

Good call mate. I closely rechecked the TRANSFER CASE EXPLODED VIEW and admit I made a big time B#lls Up.. Lets start again at the beginning. The oil Seal is actually "30" not "19"- I did not follow the arrow. I have replaced "42" Output Shaft Oil Seal without experiencing any problems or having to use a screwdriver/chisle and hammer to hit it. But it is "30" that is turned out to be a real B##tch to remove, hence my request for advice.

I APOLOGISE TO YOU JASON -ALEX and LYNN FOR WASTING YOUR TIME WITH IN CORRECTLY RESEARCHED INFORMATION.

Cheers

Tony

jason meade · #17 26-01-12, 05:28

Tony, Dont worry about the small stuff Buddy...Thats the one i thought you were having problems with, then this afternoon Alex said something about a speedysleve....and i wondered all afternoon about how you were going to fix that with a speedysleve...lol
No worrys, Just follow what i said earlyer and you will not have any problems..I have rebuilt several splicer units with the front bearing cap off you can get to it from the other side, if not use a small flat screw driver and start digging er out, but remember when the seal is out make sure there is nothing else in the hole.
I have found metal spacers and gasket spacers between the seal and the cast face.
Good luck
Jason

Jordan Baker · #18 26-01-12, 05:41

Over on the G503 forum there is a ton of info about this very same problem. Might be worth doing some checking there too if you haven't already.

Little Jo · #19 26-01-12, 07:33

Jason - Jordon

Thanks guys, feeling ready to tackle the problem now we are all working from the same page. I will have another look at G503 as well.

Cheers

Tony

Col Tigwell · #20 26-01-12, 08:50

When I worked for Kenworth we used speedi sleeves every location we could.

If the sleeve goes on smoothly then the shaft itself is ok. If there is a bubble after you have fitted the sleeve then the shaft either has a high spot or the shaft is out of limits so of course the shaft will have to be replaced

Regards

Col

jason meade · #21 26-01-12, 12:58

Just a reminder a speedysleve will not work on a splinded shaft...Just saying its the shatt in tonys picture from the first post and is number 12 the smooth spot on the shaft is where the skf bearing runs,and locks the shaft into the front case. Again if the shaft is bad replace it with a new one, they are cheep, Output clutch shaft part number A-975...20.00 cdn, seal kit 22.00 cdn
42.00 bucks, six pack, and 1 hour= happiness with a buzz.

rob love · #22 26-01-12, 16:02

On an output flange located on a splined shaft, it is just as possible that the leak is through the splines and then through the washer and nut, as it is the flange. Later setups of this type included a splined rubber gasket that went under the washer. A bit of RTV under the washer (items 27 or 36) will usually do the job as well.

Little Jo · #23 26-01-12, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

On an output flange located on a splined shaft, it is just as possible that the leak is through the splines and then through the washer and nut, as it is the flange. Later setups of this type included a splined rubber gasket that went under the washer. A bit of RTV under the washer (items 27 or 36) will usually do the job as well.

Hi Rob

Thanks mate for the suggestion. I looked at numbers 27 and 36 on the exploded Transfer Case Diagram and note they are the Companion Flange Nut Washer before the Companion Flange Nut and cotter pin. I take it RTV is some type of silicone sealant I could smear on the back of the washer before securing with the Companion Flange Nut and Cotter Pin. I can try that first and see if the sealant works, it may solve the problem. I used some Blue RTV Gasget maker on the Transfer Case cover before the gasget and works well. Do you suggest I try this first before tackling the difficult Oil Seal removal.?? It would certainly save me a sh#t load of frustration.

I am very grateful for all the support and suggestions from fellow MLU members and I have learned so much, which is so good seeing I had never tackled anything mechanical before taking on my Jeep restoration project.

Cheers

Tony

rob love · #24 26-01-12, 19:27

Ever hear the old joke about the guy who decided to swim across the Pacific ocean. He got 3/4 the way across, got tired, so he swam back.

I would suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of removing the driveshaft, the cotter pin, the nut and washer, you go the remainder of the way and remove the flange and replace the seal. Since you are talking about an output seal, once the flange is off, you should be able to pry the seal out with a seal puller or hook type slide hammer.

There is a seal puller pry bar that is relatively inexpensive, and achieves great success. An example would be the snap on YA-105, but there are cheaper versions of this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Point-S...item19cd12ee7c

On re-assembly, put the RTV (stands for room temperature vulcanizing, which is automotive silicone) around the shaft, let it "skin" for a bit, then install the washer and nut, effectively spreading the RTV to fill the cavity between the shaft, the flange and the washer.

In an ideal world you would use a flange holding tool so you could torque the nut on fully. But since most guys don't have justification to buy all the special use tools, you can likely get away with an impact gun or a power bar with the truck in gear and the park brake applied.

Little Jo · #25 26-01-12, 23:35

Hi Rob, Jason, Alex and Lynn

Thank you all for your support and idea's with my forthcoming work on my transfer case. Yes, I agree if you so far than go all the way and do the job, properly the first time thereby elliminating any further ptoblems.

Cheers

Tony

motto · #26 27-01-12, 13:36

A little trick I've used in past for cracking the flange nuts on gearboxes or t'fer cases if you don't have a rattle gun is as follows:- After removing the split pin put a socket and bar on the nut with a handle long enough to contact the floor or a beefy item of structure on the vehicle. You can then instal your crank handle and select the appropriate gear i.e. first or reverse and give a heave on the crank handle.

This can save wrestling with the bar underneath the truck and possibly injuring yourself. The reduction through the gearbox makes for sufficient torque to be applied with ease. By the same token, DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN if you use the same method to do up the nut.

Just remember that the T'fer case on an AWD vehicle drives more than one axle and you may have to jack up a wheel to allow the drive line to turn over.

David

Little Jo · #27 27-01-12, 23:03

Hi Dave

Thanks mate for the sugestion, boy I am really chuffed with the help I am receiving. It just goes to show what a great bunch of people MLU members are. Thanks Guys,

Cheers

Tony

Little Jo · #28 29-01-12, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

Ever hear the old joke about the guy who decided to swim across the Pacific ocean. He got 3/4 the way across, got tired, so he swam back.

I would suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of removing the driveshaft, the cotter pin, the nut and washer, you go the remainder of the way and remove the flange and replace the seal. Since you are talking about an output seal, once the flange is off, you should be able to pry the seal out with a seal puller or hook type slide hammer.

There is a seal puller pry bar that is relatively inexpensive, and achieves great success. An example would be the snap on YA-105, but there are cheaper versions of this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Point-S...item19cd12ee7c

On re-assembly, put the RTV (stands for room temperature vulcanizing, which is automotive silicone) around the shaft, let it "skin" for a bit, then install the washer and nut, effectively spreading the RTV to fill the cavity between the shaft, the flange and the washer.

In an ideal world you would use a flange holding tool so you could torque the nut on fully. But since most guys don't have justification to buy all the special use tools, you can likely get away with an impact gun or a power bar with the truck in gear and the park brake applied.

Hi Rob

I took your advise and purchased a "Seal Puller Pry Bar" as the one on your eBay link. I checked on Amazon and located them at a much cheaper price so I ordered one. It usually takes about a week to get stuff delivered to my home in Australia from the USA. Details of the product below and picture attached. This should make removing the troublesome seal much easier. Thanks again for the heads up.

Powerbuilt 648494 Seal Puller
by Powerbuilt
Be the first to review this item | Like (0)
Price: $7.26 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.

Cheers

Tony

rob love · #29 29-01-12, 01:27

Hopefully it works out for you...do let us know.

A few years ago the chinese copies of the North American tools were absolute crap. A tool like the one pictured would bend on even the easy to remove seals. But today, there are few North American companies that do not have their stuff made off shore (China) and generally the tools are of reasonable quality.

That said, my seal puller is made in USA Snap On. It has been subject to some real abuse and has never let me down.