JEEP willy's help

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Speedy

hi Geoff.

that is what I was worried about, if the pistons are stuck, the valves may be also, and if I start the engine it may backfire allot and possibly create more damage.

I think I can do all the labour of tearing down assembling the engine, and leave the machining to the engine guys.

I guess it would be good to get hardened valve seats in the engine at that point.

I am sure allot of guys here have redone their engines, does anyone have a idea of what it can cost me?

and lastly, anyone have an idea of how I should plan out my attack to re doing this vehicle?
would the engine be last? drivetrain first? then body?

If you're going to strip the engine yourself, do yourself a favour... photograph everything before you take it off, label it and stow it separately (small parts grouped in labeled plastic bags eg). That way you know how it goes together again and won't be sitting there looking at a freshly-assembled engine and wondering "where did this part sitting beside me go...?".

Ref the rest: if you want to do it right, strip it down to the bare frame, store the body bits (small parts labeled and stowed as per the above instruction) then start there. Blast, prime and paint the frame and go from there. Next to go on would be the axles - you may not have to strip them, but you'll want to change the oil for sure - then do the seals and brakes and mount wheels and tyres... and so on, and so on... while you're doing this you can have the engine done, then mount it before your body goes back on.

BTW, you may not have to pull the transmission/transfer cases apart, but I highly recommend you pull the tops off to check for moisture damage or even water inside - don't knock it, I've seen many like that.

Ref the body... you can restore it as an original CJ2A, or you can fake up an MB if you really wanted to... it's up to you. You'd need at the very least a grill, a windshield assembly and to remove the tailgate and replace with a welded-in flat panel reinforced to take a spare tyre carrier and jerry can holder.

The chances are, though, you could probably make a lot of money on a fully restored CJ2A from the jeep aficionados then turn around and buy a real MB. As I said, it's up to you. Regardless, jeep people here on MLU will help you!

Lastly, I recommend you look up the several HAMMOND BARN threads we have in the Restoration Forum to learn the proper way of rebuilding an old vehicle... these gentlemen are Masters!

Geoff

[Speedy]

hi Geoff
thank you! that helps and will work with what you said
I will keep it cj2a as it still has the military look.

the head is coming off, to see inside.
cracked the nuts free. cant wait to take it off!

[Speedy]

so last exam was today. pulled the head, since this is the first time working around full size engines I am not sure the condition.
I think the rings are stuck to the head, it seems like its all carbon build up. light surface rust on 2 of the cyls, the other 2 seem like they might be worse, might be carbon will need to look at it closer.

getting my car buddies over tomorrow, then I will have a better idea of what to do.
a friend offered me a free chevy 350 engine, but that seems like a big project.

o yeh, the liquid in the cylinder is atf and wd40. been in the cylinders for atleast 2 weeks so those cyls are stuck or the carbon is stopping it from going thru.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Mike.
What I am seeing is a badly carboned up engine..No idea what the bottom end is like but the valves are not all burned up and split..a good sign..and once you pull the engine and can see what is going on down below you will have a better idea..
That happens when they spend a lot of time idling and slow..low RPM operation..
Rich on the fuel under these conditions..hence the carbon..
IF all the other tune up points ..timing..carb...valve..etc.adjustments are in spec..
Anyway press on..Keep the pix coming..
You are doing fine.
One more thing..DON'T let your "Car Buddies"..talk you into pounding those pistons down "JUst to see if..."...what ever..
Pull the engine.take off the pan..disconnect the connecting rods ..then you can use a wooden block and tap them to break them loose...but don't attempt until disconnecting the connecting rods and rotating the crank to clear the rods..mark your end caps to each connecting rod and the way they are facing before you pull them apart and throw them in a box..
What I used to do was as I was disassembling... I had a big piece of heavy cardboard and I would put slits in the card board and I would position the components on the card board exactly in the direction..number..combination..of all the components as I took them off ..that way I didn't mix up my end caps..rods..valves..pushrods ,main bearing caps etc..and I knew what went where when ever I got the rest of the short block finished...things look a lot better when you know where every thing goes and which way it came out..

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

As Alex said, that engine doesn't look too bad - the valves look great, even on no. 4 cylinder. It's just been sitting outside way too long. Keep soaking all four cylinders but don't force it free... eventually it will loosen up then you can pull it and strip for a decent inspection. If the bottom end is good, then you might get away with a simple honing or if not, a 1st oversize bore job.

I wouldn't recommend that 350 for your vehicle. You might get away with a small V-6, but either one would detract from its restored value. Work with what you have - it's all you really need.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by Alex Blair

Mike.
What I am seeing is a badly carboned up engine..No idea what the bottom end is like but the valves are not all burned up and split..a good sign..and once you pull the engine and can see what is going on down below you will have a better idea..
That happens when they spend a lot of time idling and slow..low RPM operation..
Rich on the fuel under these conditions..hence the carbon..
IF all the other tune up points ..timing..carb...valve..etc.adjustments are in spec..
Anyway press on..Keep the pix coming..
You are doing fine.
One more thing..DON'T let your "Car Buddies"..talk you into pounding those pistons down "JUst to see if..."...what ever..
Pull the engine.take off the pan..disconnect the connecting rods ..then you can use a wooden block and tap them to break them loose...but don't attempt until disconnecting the connecting rods and rotating the crank to clear the rods..mark your end caps to each connecting rod and the way they are facing before you pull them apart and throw them in a box..
What I used to do was as I was disassembling... I had a big piece of heavy cardboard and I would put slits in the card board and I would position the components on the card board exactly in the direction..number..combination..of all the components as I took them off ..that way I didn't mix up my end caps..rods..valves..pushrods ,main bearing caps etc..and I knew what went where when ever I got the rest of the short block finished...things look a lot better when you know where every thing goes and which way it came out..

taking the engine out of the jeep and disassembling the bottom end is a whole new ball game for me :S.

- what would I be looking for on the bottom end? it does still have oil when I check the dip stick.

- why do I need to disconnect the rods before hitting the pistons with the wood ontop?

the carb is stuck, it seems untouched. my neighbor has access to a ultrasonic cleaner, but should I just see if I can free it myself befor disassembling and rebuilding? by spraying wd40 all over and inside.

the ignition has new points and condenser or they look bran new.

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

As Alex said, that engine doesn't look too bad - the valves look great, even on no. 4 cylinder. It's just been sitting outside way too long. Keep soaking all four cylinders but don't force it free... eventually it will loosen up then you can pull it and strip for a decent inspection. If the bottom end is good, then you might get away with a simple honing or if not, a 1st oversize bore job.

I wouldn't recommend that 350 for your vehicle. You might get away with a small V-6, but either one would detract from its restored value. Work with what you have - it's all you really need.

what should I soak the cylinders with?
diesel? (should I clean out the carbon somehow)

I agree I was hesitant about the 350 and after talking to other owners it seems the 350 would grenade the transmission. I never did like the idea of using another engine in this jeep, I love the original bits

[cantankrs]

Originally Posted by Speedy

- why do I need to disconnect the rods before hitting the pistons with the wood ontop?

what should I soak the cylinders with?
diesel? (should I clean out the carbon somehow)

Hi Speedy,

You should disconnect the rod big-ends (maybe even pull the crank out but mark the pistons, rod caps and main bearing caps for position and direction first (don't forget the pistons-mark the front side)) so that each cylinder can be treated individually. If you thump on a nice fitting block of wood on one piston (preferably round and gotta be flat if a flat piston crown) then the shock is trying to transfer to all the other 3 pistons via the crank and rods. And that's not good for the rods or bearings or gears/chain or valve train.

Also I've experienced agro from an engine rod flopping and one of the big-end studs marking a crank journal - NOT something you want to happen to your pride and joy!! So if the big end bolts don't come out (not personally familiar with jeeps) then find some plastic or rubber hose that is a snug fit over the threads (so it won't fall off on ya) and cut bits off to slip over the threads to save your crank from being marked. You could try tape but needs to be thick enough and might not want to stick.

Some engine blocks don't allow for the pistons to be removed out the bottom due to insufficient size/clearances. So you can only knock them down so far (carefully) and then have to push from the bottom up using a different bit of wood. If the stroke of the motor is long enough and there's enough clearance with the casting then they will come out below (e.g. Fordson E27N tractor has long enough stroke and enough mains casting clearance for piston with rod to come out without removing crank I think).

Also (dunno about jeeps) retorquing bigend bolts would be risky if the bolts have been strained before. Replacing them with new especially in diesels is probably advisable.

I've heard that old automatic transmission fluid is a good at getting past stuck rings - just takes a fair while - perhaps months.

I've read that not too stiff rotary wirebrushes in a drill can clean off carbon - so long as it doesn't remove metal then should be OK.

Regards

Alex

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Speedy

taking the engine out of the jeep and disassembling the bottom end is a whole new ball game for me :S.

- what would I be looking for on the bottom end? it does still have oil when I check the dip stick.

- why do I need to disconnect the rods before hitting the pistons with the wood ontop?

the carb is stuck, it seems untouched. my neighbor has access to a ultrasonic cleaner, but should I just see if I can free it myself befor disassembling and rebuilding? by spraying wd40 all over and inside.

the ignition has new points and condenser or they look bran new.



what should I soak the cylinders with?
diesel? (should I clean out the carbon somehow)

I agree I was hesitant about the 350 and after talking to other owners it seems the 350 would grenade the transmission. I never did like the idea of using another engine in this jeep, I love the original bits

Mike..
Your questions are sincere and pretty intelligent..but your youth..exuberance and inexperience shows immediately....which is a good thing/....I am willing to help anyone that needs it but have little patience or time for a know it all..
Which is not you..
Keep the questions coming and print out the two responses from Alex Blair and Alex McDougal...Canada..and Australia...miles apart physically but together in our evaluations of your postings..
Alex Mc is giving you excellent advise...read and heed..
The Other uncle Alex