Repro 15cwt GS box cover

Bob Carriere · #1 27-11-08, 04:54

.... I always referred to them as mini capsan winches.......

All the early boxes had them...... and if you search the archive pictures from CLive you will see that the early box canvas had some kind of leather strap with keyholes in them.... they fitted over them funny little "whatever"..... all early boxes also had the curves hooks welded to the box and they seemed to be used to secure a short tarp over the box when the "bows" were not used.... again this is based on factory pictures from Clive.....

It would make sense that with field experience the typical metal spring hood type clasps where used on the tarps to secure the tarp under some tension yet could be very quickly released for battle situations.

Grant has reproduced some very accurate copies of the spring devices.... even importing the suitable springs from the USA in yard long strips from an outfit that would not ship to Canadians even when using a UPS box in Ogdensburg...... he used the good services and good will of Phil in NH to remail to the barn...... the Caldwells are also reproducing them as well.

Boob

PS the link from Rob worked for me......

Stewart Loy · #2 02-12-08, 22:37

Gents,

Here is the pricing from the canvas supplier:

Quote:

Please find below the itemized pricing for the covers:

#10 Olive Drab or Tan Canvas Tarp: $600.00
External Waterproofing Applied by Hornsby Canvas: $175.00 (not required for Tan Coloured Tarp)
External Waterproofing Purchased and Applied by Customer: $120.00
4 Plastic Windows (as per drawing supplied by Stewart): $25.00 / window
100' Hemp Rope: $50.00 (our supplier has informed me that there is a limited amount available and when the supply is exhausted, there will not be any more available)

All applicable taxes are charged extra.
Delivery is approximately 4 weeks from date of order. We need the lead time to receive the materials.

We would like a commitment for as many #10 Olive Drab Covers as possible as one time. We need to order the material and must order a minimum of 200m. This equals 12 truck covers. We also need to order the buckles and webbing which is also a special order and minimums are required.

We would also like to have a sample truck cover to use as a guideline when manufacturing the new covers.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you for the opportunity to work on your projects.

Example: Tan w/waterproof with 4 windows w/rope = 600+175+100+50=$925

So there you have it. Please decide what colour and coating and number of windows and rope that you want.

Please PM with your desires and we will talk about payments.

Stewart

Gunner · #3 02-12-08, 23:29

Hi Stewart (I just noticed that you always sign off as "Stewart" so I figured I'd best follow suit!)

:

I'm still committed to one in OD, no windows and no rope. I'll get back to you on the waterproofing before production starts.

Thank you for making the effort to see this through!

Mike

Bob Carriere · #4 03-12-08, 01:25

HI Stew...art

I am good for one OD..... but would like to know more about the waterproofing.....is it standard tent/canvas water proofing....?

I have done canvas tents before and the major part is the labour... and messy.....but for the $$$ I might do my own.... or only drive on sunny days.

Can you elaborate...?

Boob

Tony Smith · #5 03-12-08, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

I don't know if there were colour variations, but the tan tarp shown on the 15cwt in the MLU pages is original, war-dated with C-broad arrow...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart Loy

Gents,

Here is the pricing from the canvas supplier:

#10 Olive Drab or Tan Canvas Tarp: $600.00
External Waterproofing Applied by Hornsby Canvas: $175.00 (not required for Tan Coloured Tarp)
External Waterproofing Purchased and Applied by Customer: $120.00

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Example: Tan w/waterproof with 4 windows w/rope = 600+175+100+50=$925

Stewart

Regards the Waterproofing, is it required on the Tan canvas or not?

As far as stencilling any markings on canvas go, is it applied BEFORE the waterproofing or AFTER. And what colour was the stencilling? I expect the Tan canvas would have Black (but could also be Violet as on '37 Patt webbing), and the Olive canvas could also be Black stencilling, but might also be Yellow as noted also on webbing.

Colouring and/or stencilling on webbing used to be done here with a product called Raven Oil, but the local Office Supplies company sells inkpad refill inks in Black, Violet, Red, Green and Yellow and would be fine to use with a sponge and stencil.

Mike K · #6 03-12-08, 03:23

for what its worth.. someone local to me uncovered a stash of 1942 108 wireless set canvas covers some years ago... they are stenciled in black ..in brand new condition ..made here somewhere . The canvas is a light yellowy beige colour .

I'm presently making a new top for my series 1 landy..been looking for the heavy 20 oz duck canvas they used originally.. no luck so far ..so I'm using cheap 16 oz stuff made in Pakistan ... its 60 bucks for a 12' X 9' ..don't know how it will last though .

I've got an old original 1952 top on loan ... its not exactly like a 1950 top, but close enough ... the colour you see in the pics is deceptive as it has faded to a yellow/browny natural cotton..the original 1952 colour is found inside the folded seams .. a rich emerald grass green colour ... the difference is remarkable
Mike

Stewart Loy · #7 03-12-08, 13:08

Gents,

Boob is correct - the waterprooferizing is a messy business that can be done to the OD cloth. The fabric comes with a bit of waterproofing on the thread - so it is 'water resistant'. If it is to be used extensivly out of doors it should be waterproof sprayed. The canvasmith does it just like you and I would - with a pump sprayer. It is a bit smelly, and she pays her foplks to do it, so the price is labour and materials. The tan cloth got that done at the factory, and needs no more.

I have not even thought of stencils - but they should be done prior to waterproofing. If it were me: I would get the tarp without the waterproof treatment, paint stencils, THEN spray the canvas with a commercial ( or homemade ) spray to waterproof. I googled a concoction of soya oil and turpentine that sounds like it would be waterproof and smelly! The sample tarp has black ink for the stencils.

The hold down rope is easier to find that the canvas lady says - check the internet. I may make some of the clips Mike and Grant have worked on.

The canvas shop is down for 2 weeks at Xmas, so production will likely wait for straps and clips and get underway in late January 2009.

Send PMs and get on the list.

Stewart

Alex Blair (RIP) · #8 03-12-08, 13:45

Stewart ..
How is the water proofing holding up on the tarp I gave you a few years ago..??
If it is still ok,I will share my method with you...for a pint of Ripple..

Stewart Loy · #9 03-12-08, 22:38

Alex,

That canvas sheet you gave me is still very waterproof - I use it to keep the T-16 drivers compartment dry when rainy parades send the convertible top gang running for cover. I am not scared to get my hair wet, but driving with wet pants gives me 'the creeps', as it were ...

That fabric is a bit thinner than this tarp stuff, but the same fluid would probably work as well.

The soya bean oil and turpentine spray on as suggestd on the WWW is a thing best done out of doors and off the truck. I suspect that the person doing the spraying would also become waterproof, and smell like a cheap Chinese buffet on a hot day!

Stewart

Stewart Loy · #10 05-12-08, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Regards the Waterproofing, is it required on the Tan canvas or not?

Tony,

The tan material comes with the super waterproofing, and does NOT need anymore. That colour tarp is by far the bestest deal out there! 1 has been ordered thus far.

Stewart

john hoffman · #11 06-12-08, 16:19

Greeting. I am interested in a tan C15 cover, Stewart. Just PMed you Sir.

Cheers, Johnnie.

Hanno Spoelstra · #12 10-12-08, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

.... I always referred to them as mini capsan winches.......

All the early boxes had them...... and if you search the archive pictures from CLive you will see that the early box canvas had some kind of leather strap with keyholes in them.... they fitted over them funny little "whatever"..... all early boxes also had the curves hooks welded to the box and they seemed to be used to secure a short tarp over the box when the "bows" were not used.... again this is based on factory pictures from Clive.....

It would make sense that with field experience the typical metal spring hood type clasps where used on the tarps to secure the tarp under some tension yet could be very quickly released for battle situations.

Grant has reproduced some very accurate copies of the spring devices.... even importing the suitable springs from the USA in yard long strips from an outfit that would not ship to Canadians even when using a UPS box in Ogdensburg...... he used the good services and good will of Phil in NH to remail to the barn...... the Caldwells are also reproducing them as well.

Boob,

It this what you mean?

H.

Bob Carriere · #13 11-12-08, 01:11

HI Hanno

I see we are working from the same archived photos......

I actually was referring to the Ford cab 12 in the same series of pictures ...see below......

Noticed that the corner strap fits through a slip cut on the tarp to lock it in place..... the later models with the gromlets for the rope dispenced withthat additional work....... one question in my mind... is that trap canvas or leather with a keyhole cut in it....... old cartridge boxes for 1812 uniform used a similar brass "finding" that allowed the keyhole in the cover to hold tight and keep the paper cartridges from flying out.... or canvas that has some form of sewn reinforcement or even a metal gromlet..... Any one ever seen an early CMP tarp with the straps.....

I have also seen later cab 13 use the same metal spring devices that are used to hold the engine cover closed.... they used them between the ropes and those funny mini capstan. Stretch...pull down and lock on the pin....Which I beleive would be a lot faster to release a tarp in a battle situation than untying knots and loosening the ropes.... but I can find a decent pictures of them being actually used in service.

Mike K · #14 11-12-08, 02:16

Looking at the windows in that cab 12 top... I always thought it was a cotton material.. but apparently, it's made from a fine copper or brass woven gauze . Can anyone confirm or know otherwise ?

Mike

Bob Carriere · #15 12-12-08, 04:59

...according to AEDB publication.

Grant do you remember the section were it was described...?

More intriging is why...? they did have plastic for the side windows..?

Bob

john hoffman · #16 13-12-08, 16:58

I'll take a stab. Advent of thermal plastics, i.e., bakelite, etc., was a mere science pre WW2. Hostilities pushed plastics production way ahead, accellerated it.

Was it not the prewar norm for box covers to have a simple canvas view "flap" if any at all ? Prewar Hillmans, Austins, early Morris truck pics show canvas covers with tied flaps, but I'll be damned if none are shown rolled up to exposed the clear plastic sheet, if it was there.

Cheerio, Johnnie.

Bob Carriere · #17 13-12-08, 17:20

.... it was 1947 or 48 before the first expensive plastic toys were available... and it was brittle and NO plastic glue existed..... my Dad mended broken plastic by using a kitchen knife heated on the stove.....or nail removing solutions (acetone)......memories..... my early toys were cast of rubber or white metal..... the wheels/tires wer made of a pressed cardboard or papier mache which did not last long playing in damp sand.....

Who remembers the name of the Crown Corporation created in Canada to jump start the plastic industry.....??? early 40s.......

Bob
PS....Man it's cold this morning....Minus 25 C..... it actually hurts just to stand there...... that's why I am here on the 'puter.