MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > GENERAL WW2 TOPICS > WW2 Military History & Equipment

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-06-07, 03:59
John McGillivray's Avatar
John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Quebec
Posts: 1,089
Default Carpiquet

A new book just came out last month by Marc Milner called “D-Day to Carpiquet The North Shore Regiment and the Liberation of Europe”. As the title suggests, the book covers the actions of The North Shore Regt during the period from the 6th of June until the 5th of July. Of particular interest is the Chapter dealing with the battle of Carpiquet on the 4th and 5th of July. Most accounts of the battle fail to take into account the importance of the high ground on which Carpiquet was located; and underestimates the size of the forces that the Germans committed to the battle and the high numbers of their losses. Often ignored are the five failed counterattacks launched by the 1st and 3rd Battalions of 1st Panzer Grenadier Regiment of Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler.

Mr. Milner concludes the chapter as follows:

“Operation WINDSOR is usually regarded as a dismal failure because the southern hangers and control buildings were not taken, and because Canadian casualties were so high compared to those of the Germans. And the Canadian assault on Carpiquet village itself is often viewed as an example of bungling Allied methods: four full battalions supported by massive firepower and tanks attacking a depleted German battalion resulting in minimal success and heavy losses. It is generally assumed that the Germans lost 155 men in the first two days of fighting at Carpiquet, a figure which contrasts sharply with the 377 Canadians who were killed, wounded, or missing.

“However, although disappointing, particularly in its failure to secure the southern hangers, Operation WINDSOR was a significant tactical, operational, and even strategic success. Indeed, the battalions of the 8th Brigade held onto Carpiquet and drew both a maelstrom of fire and savage German counter-attack onto their position. At a certain level, that was entirely the point. The Allies, including those diehards of the NSR who made it to the village, knew that the Germans would fight fanatically to retake it. The SS attackers in the early hours of July 5 were told that no one could withstand the constant shelling and that they would find Carpiquet empty. As Major J.A.L. Robichaud said, the Germans "got a very sad surprise."

“Not only did the Germans fail to dislodge the Canadians from their salient, they also suffered heavily at Carpiquet. The figure of 155, routinely quoted by historians on both sides as the German count of killed, wounded, and missing, refers to only those admitted to by the 26th PzG Regiment of 12th SS, and is inaccurate. By some accounts, German losses around the southern hangers attacked by the RWR amounted to 150 men, while the reinforced third company of the 3/26th in the village was virtually annihilated: the NSR captured fifty-five and counted about thirty-five SS dead in the wheat field. How many died in the village is unknown, but there must have been some. Those figures amount to 240 from the 12th SS alone. More importantly, for some unknown reason, losses to the 1st SS Division during the morning of July 5 are never tallied in the Carpiquet figures. According to their own history, the 3rd Battalion of the 1st SS PzG Regiment lost 115 infantry (killed, wounded, and missing) plus about twenty tanks. This figure is corroborated by B Company of the NSR, who counted about one hundred dead and wounded in front of its position at dawn. These losses bring German casualties for July 4-5 to about 340. But the real figure is probably higher still. The Germans provide no casualty figures for their supporting tanks and other units, none from the three attacks by the 1st Battalion of the 1st SS PzG Regiment at all, and we can only speculate on the casualties from the artillery fire brought down on formations preparing to attack, such as the 3rd Company of the III/1 st SS just outside Franqueville at the start of the first attack. Based on all this, casualties on both sides were about even, and the SS paid dearly for their fanatical disregard for life, especially their own, and for their arrogance in the face of Anglo-Canadian defensive firepower.

“More importantly, in trying to retake Carpiquet the Germans committed their only available operational reserve in the Caen sector, and it was destroyed. As the Canadian Army's official post-war narrative reveals, four out of five of these attacks fell on the North Shore Regiment, and the fifth was stopped by their intervention. It was their fire, and that of their supporting elements, that crushed the elite of Hitler's personal guard and shattered German hopes of holding Caen. The old North Shore may have died at Carpiquet, but it took a lot of Germans and its enemy's plans for the defence of Caen with them. As Major Bill Harvey reflected, "There was never the like of those North Shore men for sheer guts and durability."”

To add to what Marc Milner wrote, the losses of the 1st Bn of 1st SS is given in the book “The Leibstandarte IV/1” by Rudolf Lehmann and Ralf Tiemann as 19 dead, 76 wounded and 21 missing. This brings the known German losses to more than 450.

Another part of Operation Windsor was a raid conducted by A Sqn of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers commanded by Radley-Walters. The SFR Sqn’s start line was near Villeneuve. They shot up German positions at Franqueville, Authie and Gruchy and crossed back through the Canadian’s lines near Rosei. They destroyed two German anti-tank guns and accounted for some 75 German troops from 25th Pz Gn Regt., with no losses to themselves. This brings the German losses during Operation Windsor to well over 500.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-06-07, 05:11
mike mckinley's Avatar
mike mckinley mike mckinley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maces Bay, N.B.
Posts: 371
Default

hi john

could you please post the isbn for this book. i had one grandfather and two uncles who served overseas with the N.S.N.B.R. i have a copy of their regimental history, but this book would be a fascinating read!!

thanks

mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-06-07, 11:38
John McGillivray's Avatar
John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Quebec
Posts: 1,089
Default

The information is here:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/...arch+Books%3a+'Carpiquet'
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-07-08, 15:59
John McGillivray's Avatar
John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Quebec
Posts: 1,089
Default

Below is a link to a radio broadcast by CBC's Matthew Halton describing the start of the battle of Carpiquet which started on the 4th of July, 1944

http://archives.cbc.ca/on_this_day/07/04/

Here is an aerial photo of Carpiquet



A map of the Carpiquet area showing the locations of units involved in the fighting. Note the locations of the units from 1st SS LAH, with III/1 near Franqueville and II/1 just behind the control buildings of the airport. Missing from this map in the location of I/1 which was in the western suburbs of Caen.

III/1 launched two counterattacks against the north side of the Carpiquet salient followed by three counterattacks by I/1 LAH towards the East end of the Canadian positions. Note that the German counterattacks were carried out in a piecemeal fashion with no coordination between the different battalions of 1SS LAH.



Here is a link to photos of the Carpiquet area from Library and Archives Canada

http://search-recherche.collectionsc...940s&PageNum=1
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-07-08, 22:21
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,465
Default

Here are a couple of pictures taken in the area by Henk Minne in December 2007.

1st: farm gate made of PSP.

2nd: Communications wire (German/Canadian/British) grown into a tree.

Thanks Henk!

Hanno
Attached Thumbnails
PICT3025-resized.jpg   PICT3026-resized.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-07-08, 23:26
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,681
Default

Jon, very interesting.

We came past the location about 4 weeks ago. Carpiquet is now Caen/Carpiquet airfield and has another landing strip added since WW2. It is still at the same location though.

We also came past Sommervieu airfield. It is easily recognizable where that airfield used to be, when you drive on the road from Bayeux to Arromanches; a hill with a pretty large flat spot on top.

Asnelles also used to be the location of a temporary airfield. It wasn's as easy to spot the location as with Sommervieu, but PSP plates are still widely in use on the farms around Asnelles.

Alex
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-07-08, 01:08
klambie klambie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 75
Default Carpiquet

Always interested in information related to this operation, as my great uncle was killed with the Regina Rifles around La Villeneuve on 4 July 44. The Reginas were not directly involved in Windsor, but their positions at Rots and La Villeneuve overlooked much of the battlefield and they were shelled throughout the day.

I must have missed John's thread on Milner's book last year, but I think they have done a teriffic job in combining period airphotos, accounts, and Map References with current satellite imagery, and investigation on the ground to shed a lot of light on the details of the North Shore's experience in that first month or so ashore and identify detailed locations of various actions. This is the type of detail that I aspire to be able to provide for the Regina Rifles during the same period.

For subscribers to Canadian Military History, there is a piece that I have just skimmed so far in the current issue, by David Patterson. I believe that David's hypothesis is that Carpiquet had relatively little to do with preparations for the Canadian assault on Caen, and was much more focussed on eliminating German postions that overlooked the British in the low ground south of Carpiquet, captured during Epsom and suffering an ongoing pounding from the Germans that remained on that high ground.
__________________
Kevin Lambie
www.reginarifles.ca
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-09, 03:13
Rob S Rob S is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1
Default A good read

Milner's book is a short, but well written and rich in detail. I will definitely be hanging on to my copy.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-09, 11:35
Dean (Ajax) Dean (Ajax) is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ajax Ontario
Posts: 322
Default

I will be there this Saturday taking a look through the fence!!!

MY first trip to the Battlefields.

Dean
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15-10-12, 23:05
John McGillivray's Avatar
John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Quebec
Posts: 1,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by klambie View Post
I believe that David's hypothesis is that Carpiquet had relatively little to do with preparations for the Canadian assault on Caen, and was much more focussed on eliminating German postions that overlooked the British in the low ground south of Carpiquet, captured during Epsom and suffering an ongoing pounding from the Germans that remained on that high ground.
I am currently reading Patrick Delaforce’s book “The Black Bull: from Normandy to the Baltic with the 11th Armoured Division”. In the chapter dealing with Operation Epson and Hill 112 there are a number of references to Carpiquet which shows the importance of that position to the German defence.

P 35 “The infantry battalions dug in around Hill 112 were under enemy observation Ops from Carpiquet aerodrome in the north.”

P38 “A terrific flap was in progress. Support troops were hurriedly digging in, tanks taking up position, shells coming over from Carpiquet aerodrome.”

P39 “On the right 30 Corps had not kept up with 8 Corps and on the left flank, the Canadian attack on Carpiquet airfield had been postponed” (on 29 June).

P41 on 30th June “3RTR had been lent to 32 Guards Brigade against the Germans ensconced at Carpiquet aerodrome, west of Caen”

P42 “…but Tim Ellis noted that the night of 3rd-4th (July) was “a hell of a bad night from Enemy mortars and artillery. The devil of it is that we get shell from the Germans in the Carpiquet area (almost directly behind us in the Salient)”

P42 “The Herefords on Hill 112 had nine days of constant shelling and mortaring, mainly from Carpiquet."

P42 “Both (Artillery) Regiments often received counter-battery fire from Carpiquet…”
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016