#1
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel tanks
Hi
I've had a fuel tank made and I need to make some more, they are 100% accurate to the original I copied including the cast and machined vents, drain, filler etc. Is there any interest from forum members for these tanks? Quantity will help keep the cost down. Once I have an idea on numbers I can get a price. If you have a rotten donor tank to supply the cast parts it will help make it cheaper. A simple "box" type tank would be cheaper but these are very good and accurate copies including baffles etc. This may only work for carrier owners in the UK due to shipping etc but I'm happy to take to W&P if that helps anyone else! I can post a picture if you like but a couple of members have seen them so perhaps they will confirm the quality........ Drop me a pm if you are interested. Ben |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Hi Ben, I would like two please, 100% and can pay deposit. I will let you know left or right, I can supply the brass for the filler threaded parts. I will need the drain, vent cast and suction necks made but I have the pick ups and vent pipes which I could solder on myself into the cast brass part.
all this make sense?. kev.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008. 3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone. 10 cwt wartime mortar trailer. 1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo. 1943 Willys MB. 1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Ben... i still want one... you have my cast bits to clag on matey
__________________
is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Hi,
I would be interested in a couple of the fuel tanks. Regards Chris |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Chris
I've been looking, the basic tank looks to be similar to the T16 type, perhaps someone with more knowledge can confirm the differences? Cheers Ben |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
I've had a firm quote of £300 per tank, plus any fittings. I'll be in touch with those who expressed an interest. Any others, this is your last chance. I'm only doing one batch!! Doesn't matter left or right hand tanks. I'm looking to get going on them in the new year.
I can supply fittings if needs be. A donor tank is the best and cheapest option. Cheers Ben |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
tanks
hi ben, i could do with a tank too...
regards nick |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
If these are for Mk11* Carriers I would be interested in a passenger side one.
I made the mistake of filling one of mine half full with disel thinking it would preserve it. For what ever reason it had the opposite effect. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
fuel tanks
If you fellows are useing biofuel or ethanol additive with your fuel it rust metal and eats rubber .Some of the guys here are putting 2 moth balls to a gallon to dry up the water that collects on the bottom of your fuel tank.
__________________
George is hooked on OD 5 window DT969 8 ton Fruehauf trailer M2A1Halftrack ,CMP #11 F15A1 #13 F15A1 RAF Fordson Tractor, 42 WLC HD No.2MK11 CT267514 center CB24713 bottom hull25701 ,No.2 MK2 parts MK1 10128 ,(2) MK1 ,Parts Hull9305 .Hull 10407 Hull plate # 7250 all have walk plate on back steps 1917 Patent modle amphibious army tank |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Bens tanks.
Hi, Finished one of Bens made tanks today, Can't tell it from an Original .
Just a note for those finishing them, remember to blow through the vent pipes after soldering, also go easy on tapping out the pick up fitting holding screw holes, I broke a tap. Used POR fuel tank sealer, works great, stops rust, follow the prep process before applying, be careful to blow through the vent lines, apply with drain plug and pick up line removed. Thanks Ben,
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008. 3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone. 10 cwt wartime mortar trailer. 1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo. 1943 Willys MB. 1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985. Last edited by kevin powles; 22-06-13 at 10:54. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Glad they worked out OK.
Everyone who wanted them is aware and collection/delivery is being arranged. Brian Asbury had spare drain bungs, caps and pickups. I can get the castings made if others want to make their own. Ben |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Sealing
Kev, did you just pour the solution into the tank and tip the tank to coat the surface ?
I was thinking of taking mine to a local galving firm but that would be cheating.... And expensive
__________________
is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Hi Rich, Etch prime and clean the internals for a few days, Put the Por 15 in, make up a blank for the take up flange, bung the ends of the vent pipes, put in the drain plug and rotate the tanks, every which way, I figured attaching to a 'childs swing' would work best, gives the kids something to do aswell!.
remove cap and blank, vent bungs, and drain plug allow excess to drain, overnight is best, keep blowing through the vent lines, avoid 'puddling' in the tank, so keep checking on it. clean up the filler cap before the por drys. I figured getting them galvanised, would be costly and weather you could do this due to the soldered joints, can anyone comment?. rich, you coming to war and peace?. kevin.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008. 3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone. 10 cwt wartime mortar trailer. 1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo. 1943 Willys MB. 1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Never thought about the soldered joints... Yes I should be there again this year, I need to touch base with Shaun and book my room ;-) also need to sort logistics etc etc. busy selling stuff to pay for rail tickets etc :-) just found a pair of original front fenders which will be going into the for sale section shortly.
__________________
is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
POR has failed over time with several of my MV friends. The white teflon separates and the film gums up the tubes.
I have used a newer product called "Red Kote" -http://damonq.com/red-kote.html RED-KOTE® Red-Kote is an internal fuel tank liner designed to seal leaks and prevent further rusting. As a sealant, Red-Kote excels at sealing the often hundreds of pin-hole leaks that occur along seams or where straps wrap around the tank. Once in place, Red-Kote forms a very tough, flexible membrane that will never crack or flake as many competitive products do. Red-Kote will not plug lines or cause engine damage when used properly. Future rust will be prevented because condensation will not contact the metal. A partial list of additives that Red-Kote is resistant to includes ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, toluene, methyl tertiary butyl ether, isopropyl alcohol and tetraethyl lead. Red-Kote takes approximately eight hours to dry. Packaged nine quarts per case or single gallons. I have used this on a Dingo and the Humber main and aux tanks and not problems yet. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Failure of Gas Tank Sealants in the US
Hi Jim
Failure of Gas Tank Sealants in the US often related to our E10 gasoline. Jim raises a very good point about the white gas tank sealant as sold by Por 15 and others, having been observed to fail do to the age of the tank sealant and introduction of Ethanol containing fuel sold in the US are at least anecdotally responsible for fuel tank sealant failure. I wonder how often these failures are the result of a less than perfect treatment of the tank or a tank design that just did not let the coating cover every surface in the tank evenly? Jim how long as the RED-KOTE® been in the tanks you mention? Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Phil,
I admit, I don't personally have a long track record with Red Kote. The dingo tank was done about three years ago and the Humber tanks done about 2 and a half years back. I also sealed about a dozen watime Brit jerry cans. I have not seen evidence of the stuff in the fuel filter of the HAC, nor have I had any carb problems. (other than the need to hand pump the fuel pump before starting it after a couple of months. - and getting used to the way the carb used the "pull, turn, pull and hold" choke cable to start it all the time) So far, it has been a "non -issue" for my HAC. I have not heard any complaints from Bogdan about the tank in his Dingo either. The shop who restored my tanks ran through a recounting of his use of POR and the failures and why he shifted to Red Kote, and his happiness with it. I intend to treat the new Carrier tanks I get from Ben with it. Cheers, Jim |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel Tanks
Just a thought... how come you guys don't make your tanks from stainless steel?,then you do not have to coat the in sides with any thing.
I have found there is not much cost difference in the price of the material , and you can not tell the difference when painted, and you don't have problems with rusting from condensation because of half fulling tanks. There is also the problems from rust when you solder , if you don't neualize the acid flux. I believe the original tanks used a tin coated steel , that made soldering fittings really easy , and also stop the internal rust.. just my thoughts.
__________________
Valentine MkV Covenanter MkIV Lynx MKI and MKII Loyd Carrier / English / Candian / LP. M3 Stuart |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Kevin.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008. 3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo. 1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone. 10 cwt wartime mortar trailer. 1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo. 1943 Willys MB. 1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
I can't weld stainless worth a darn
Hi Guys
I agree with you about making a replacement tank out of stainless, but I just don't know how to weld stainless. Always seem to have the wrong type or the wrong wire, or wrong gas. Even if I solve those problems not sure how to attach the filler necks. Now as to were the original tanks coated, on my Chevy CMPs 41 no, 42 yes but it looks like regular steel but has no rust in the tank or outside. 45 HUP the tanks had been really coated in what looks like tin/lead. Wonder if the raw tanks were dipped after being welded and then the filler neck and other fittings soldered on last. As to sealants the problem as I see it, is we just keep our vehicles to long, good sealant for current gasoline may dissolve completely in the gas of 10 years from now. There is a big stink in the US right now over the introduction of E15 or 15% ethanol. The proponents of it say there is no problem as long as older cars were built after 2001. Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Hi. Andrew is correct. Most fuel tanks were made from tin plate ie. a piece of panel steel with a thin layer of tinning (soldier) on its surfaces. Any one ever looked at how much was on old landrover tanks.
later they were galvanized, then anodized (zinc) Now, I guess they are made of poly#%*@$
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... Last edited by Lynn Eades; 26-06-13 at 04:26. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
SS welding....
Hi Phil
Linde gas ( formerly BOC ) now sells a SS wire for gas welding..... a large roll is around $180. and I am not sure what type of welding gas mixture would be required. All I know from the old stick welder days, if you welded with SS rods and made a mistake, you needed a stone to grind down the SS to make corrections. Why couldn't we have a regular steel tank with a bladder inside like a race car......? Or a poly gas tank retro fitted inside the tool box.....? Not original but if it keeps then rolling so be it. Bottom line CMP gas tanks were not intended to last 70+ years and even if we reproduce them faithfully, their life span will be limited no matter what. I have lined an old Allis Chalmers gas tank about 10 years ago.... and it had pin holes.... she is still serving me well now that I have repaired the engine. All I used was a POR kit and followed the cleaning process to the letter. Maybe the main difference is that I keep buying Hi-test gasoline from the farm distributor which claims it has no ethanol added..... a few cents more per litre but in limited quantity no a major expense. I procured a decent early cab 11 CMP fuel tank a few weeks ago with half inch varnish deposit in the bottom..... like a porous bubbly tar like varnish brittle residue..... not sure how to remove it as it covers baffles and will not chip off. I did a test using a pint of Vinyl solvent made of toluene, M.E.K. and acetone..... it desolved big deposit chunks in a beaker in about 30 minutes.....stinks of old gas and probably toxic as H***...... the only problem is I would need about 3 gallons to degum that tank....... any safer solution to recommend...? Bob C.
__________________
Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada Last edited by Bob Carriere; 26-06-13 at 04:18. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Bob, Is it worth talking to the POR15 people. I imagine they will keep it up to date,( or have to withdraw it from the market) They sell it in lots of countries? (a guess)
Different oil companies have different brews that make up the fuel (lots of aromatics) so wouldn't they (POR15 people) have to cater to that? The stuff must add up to a "rubber "bladder akin to a fuel cell. BTW, I have never used it, but have seen it recently used in carrier tanks. Are you still happy with it Lew?
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
One fellow told me how he recovered a scaley gas tank by throwing in a handful of sharp edged steel pieces and some chain links. Then he rolled and shook the tank until he was happy the crud had been broken free.
If your gelled fuel has an edge, what about attacking it with a pressure washer? Find the edge and it might come off it slabs. I think you are right about the toxicity. Try to keep the particles from washing into the surface creeks. The good people in Montreal will thank you for not polluting their water supply - much more.
__________________
Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
POR15 is widely used AND recommended over here in the classic car fraternity. I have never used it on my cars but still being advertised in the magazines! We are now in the process of adding 10% Ethanol to our fuel here so we will see in the future! They have done all the tests on classic engines and parts to see compatability levels and all seems ok-ish. There is still a large opposition to it, but as usual our glorious inbred government doesnt really care or listen !
__________________
BETTER TO BURN OUT THAN FADE AWAY. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
If there is a thick brown tar in the tank be careful , it's the old lead residue from the fuel. It stinks, and highly toxic (lead poisoning ) at best it will give you a stinking head ache . Fresh fuel does not shift it , nor does thinners - the only stuff I found that dissolves it is brake fluid . But remember wear gloves, mask etc . It is really nasty stuff.
__________________
Shaun Hindle Morris C8 Ford GPW jeep 1945 Morris 1000 (ex mil) SAS LSV Harley Davidson MT 350 motor cycle Universal carrier MK 1*1943 Ronson (under restoration) Universal carrier MK 2* 1944 (Puddle Jumper HSK 345) Ferret MK 1/1 1956 Ferret MK 2/4 1958 CVR(T) Scorpion 432 MK2 Daimler MK1 armoured car 1943 (winner best wheeled armour W&P show 2011) Daimler Dingo MK2 1944 (awaiting restoration, aquired 11/12/2011) Fordson WOT 3 D 1940 (awaiting restoration ) |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
The traditional fabrication company that made the tanks suggested the mild steel, they made the tanks 100% accurately to the original, as are the fittings. Mild steel was cheaper and generally easier to work and weld. I spoke to a company about making them in stainless and their comment was that the tooling required and the work was substantially more (due to material work hardening and the post completion process to make the completed tank as hard as steel) to get the 100% accurate appearance. Seeing as nearly all the buyers of the tanks were primarily concerned with the cost, turning round and increasing it dramaitically didn't seem worth while. I'm no steel worker so I can only take their advice.
If someone wants to make themselves a stainless tank I'm happy to supply the fittings. I can't imagine that anyone here will see their new steel tank dissolve away in front of them even if they're not treated. I've got an original one here that still holds fuel and its sat outside for 70+ years There are also options of bladders to run inside or instead of the steel tank but again this is an added cost. I use them at work and they are manufactured locally by a company called ATL. The cost of one of their custom tanks would buy you a fairly substantial chunk of a carrier. Kevin, if you weren't happy with the mild steel tanks you shouldn't have bought two, you could have had stainless ones made yourself! We are (I think) trying to restore and preserve these vehicles for the future. In my opinion making them as close to the original (safely) as possible is the goal. Yes stainless tanks would be ultimately a better option but a more expensive one. I could have made them in aluminium, after painting you wouldn't have been able to tell either. Where do you draw the line? Ben |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
Ben I would just like to say thanks again for all your hard work in producing these things. The tanks are not an easy item to reproduce and to get the end joggles in and radius'd would have been an absolute nightmare !
Galving may be the way pre solder for those that want non rusty jobbies. At the bluebird project they use a two part sealant as used on the airbus A series aircraft this acts as a sealant and to stop dissimilar metal corrosion...you could seal the required parts with this stuff and with paint on you would not know the difference. The lads nick named the stuff choccy sauce but I don't know it's real name.. I shall have a look next time I am there.
__________________
is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Ben, If you had been closer, I would have had some from you. They look great to me.
I have an engineering friend who does a bit of marine engineering. His advise was that stainless work hardens, and cracks. he said he's see a bit of it in boats. He said do your tanks in steel, paint them well, keep them full, and when they go rotten, make some more. I took it as good advice.
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
MLU is wonderful
Hi All
Isn't MLU wonderful, a simple statement on making a fuel tank, as resulted in a very interesting and informative discussion of new tank fabrication, old tank sealing, old tank cleaning. How well you can actually clean a tank is probably the biggest issue in using a sealant. Now as to cleaning, as Terry mentioned using crushed glass, remember years ago reading how somebody had taken a tank put several pounds of crushed glass into a tank, then strapped the tank into a cement mixer and let the cement mixer sit there and rotate at a low speed and it did a very nice job of cleaning the inside of the tank. All of this is giving more information to clean and repair one fuel tank from my Pat 12 then fabricate a new tank to match for the other side. Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com |
|
|