#1
|
||||
|
||||
16 WW2 Stuart tanks imported into the UK
... wow, 16 early M3's were imported from Brazil into the UK. Read the full story on milweb.
Somebody told me the the starting price is around Euro 80'000 per piece... Fantastic that they have been saved. I guess we'll have some more Stuarts at the coming Tanks in Town Events
__________________
Swiss Chris aka Christoph Zimmerli - Driving Switzerland's only Aussie F15 www.wheelsandtracks.com >> Condor A580 M+85691 (1952), Swiss Army Motorbike (unrestored) >> F15 1942 Aust (Cab 13) ::: restored by Keefy |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
great read
Hi Zemsi,
Fascinating story to read via your link. Terrific pics as well. Well done to the chap in Brazil too for holding onto them for so long.
__________________
Blitz books. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
value
From Mike Stallwood himself, the asking price is 50,000 pounds a unit
robin |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Mikes Brazilain Tanks
They would seem pretty expensive against my reserve condition T55 MBT which are only 47,000.0 euros each ex Helsenki.
__________________
mally B |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
With all due respect Malcolm, a T55, be it as it may, is not WW2 armour...
In recent years the prices of anything WW2 have dramatically increased and I believe the scope of this recovery of the quantity of original Stuarts found in one place is remarkable. As stated by the vendor himself, there are already deposits down on many units and at any rate, he is in no rush to sell or offer bargain basement prices once the first few pay for the lot.
__________________
3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
mikes tanks from Brazil
Chris yes that a fair point but at some time all this WW2 stuff is going to dry up....and its not everybody that can afford those prices...even old range hulks are fetching crazy money...my own preference is a working tank ready to run for reasonable bucks! best regards malcolm
__________________
mally B |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
given a choice Malcolm, I would probably op for the as new conditon T55 as well.
__________________
3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
mikes brazilian tanks
Chris if Santa is good to you this year I can always send one over!best regardfs malcolm
__________________
mally B |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
philosophical dilemma ?
This type of thing throws up the old dilemma: should we profit from history .
Me. I think of the people who had to drive those tanks in the most arduous conditions e.g., in the North African desert ..it would have been hell, the heat and not to mention being shot at . Did those young guys make huge profits for their endevours ? Call me anti-capitalist.. call me a socialist.. call me a communist even.. it's a conscience thing for me... and it's why the world is going downhill fast.. greed. Mike
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8 1940 Morris-Commercial PU 1941 Morris-Commercial CS8 1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.) 1942-45 Jeep salad |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
tanks from Brazil
couldnt agree more with you ......thats why the world is in shit shape at the moment...greedy bankers etc.....myself I knew things would go pear-shaped when you have pen-pushing accountants running the MOD instead of good old fashioned Generals as for those that made the supreme sacrafice on all sides and fronts...the modern world dosnt care...apart from payng lip-service once a year best regards malcolm
__________________
mally B |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
This brings up an interesting debate, one that I have heard many times over...
Remember that if it wasn't for the many vendors of militaria and mv related parts we as a hobby would not exist. In defence of those who do make a profit, it is fair afterall to make something as one needs to make a decent and reasonable living. Many of these vendors have laid out huge sums of money and investment over the years to aquire, sort, and store much of the surplus parts we are fortunate to still be able to buy. Afterall, I am sure that the importation of the Stuarts was a very large investment, not to mention a risk and I am sure was a lot of leg work, legalities and pure dirt and sweat....
__________________
3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
mikes tanks from Brazil
again a fair point...I can remember years ago my old dad used to buy ex WD motorcycles and the like for his own use and everybody used to laugh..in the 1970's he was exporting machinery to the Arab world in the shape of Range-Rovers...he was in business and had to make a profit to survive...Mike is a very shrewd and hard headed businesman but again he's doing it for profit and not to see more tanks in Mons in 2009!most of us in this hobby are collectors who sometimes are able to turn a quick buck or two.....dont be fooled by the big boys they would have the shirt off your back in ther name of profit!! best regards malcolm
__________________
mally B |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
As Chris has commented if it were not for the dealers the hobby would be a lot poorer.
When I first joined the MVT at the end of the seventies you could count the number of tanks in private ownership on one hand. Now as we all know its a rich mans hobby and their are large numbers of rare tanks in the UK. Those old enough will remember Ian Mcgregor importing the first of the Canadian Shermans and Sextons from Portugal and selling them at bargan basement prices off the dockside. Unfortunately it will not happen now. Two or three years ago I was told about a batch of rebuilt unissued T34/85 in eastern europe being cut up because the dealers did not consider there was a enough profit in them to warrant importing. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
This cache of Stuart tanks was not a secret to those in the know, as are other caches. Yet, it takes several entrepeneurs (Mike worked with Joop Staman on this deal) working together to finance, buy, ship and sell caches of WW2 material like this and make them available to collectors. Of course these are shrewd businessmen, otherwise they would no embark on such an adventure and not go bankrupt! But it´s up to the collector to decide whether they get a good deal out of buying them. It´s mostly up to private enterprise to secure these historic artefacts. And yes, sadly sometimes they are worth more as scrap than collectibles. But if it´s up to the military, every old tank would get shot up on the range!
H.
__________________
Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The day of cheap anything (let alone armour) has passed... it's now up to the collectors to define how much something is worth. Either you want it or you don't... but don't bitch too much, because one day there won't be any more left!!!! Yeah, that's a scary thought...
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Mikes tanks from Brazil
as Mhr.Spoelsta states those in the know...know where the stuff is!Bye the way can anybody help my old army buddy Doug Matheson in his quest for 2 pounder cases! best regards malcolm
__________________
mally B |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
more
Interesting comments and a range of views from the forum members.
Just to add to this: tonight on ABC national radio .. Phillip Adams late night live show is having a story on the plundering of WW2 aircraft from the Pacific Islands by individuals who then sell the aircraft to collectors for up to $1,000,000 U.S. I will put a link to the show.. anyone can download it or listen live . http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/ The show is on air 10pm Eastern time here. They will put it on the site for download later on. The point I was making is that there is now a culture of this sort of thing ... it's accepted as being the norm ... and it flows right down to us and our vehicle collecting, even onto militaria collecting with the exorbitant prices you now see . As for dealers - I avoid them like the plague..Sometimes you do need that hard to find part and you have little choice ..so you you hand over the cash . Having said that , you can save yourself a lot of money by repairing parts and being hands on . I installed used rings from a donor motor in my C8 engine and it runs fine ... the rings were almost new and the correct size ( standard) .. so why buy another set. I sort of get by as a restorer. I've seen some highly skilled people who have incredible skills and ability when it comes to repairing old vehicles.. we are all different I guess. Mike
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8 1940 Morris-Commercial PU 1941 Morris-Commercial CS8 1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.) 1942-45 Jeep salad Last edited by Mike Kelly; 19-11-08 at 07:34. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Whats the definition of a Dealer, is it the bloke who collects several wrecks to make one Good One then flogs off the remains to cover costs of the work he couldn,t do. OR is it the chap who does all the running around, storing, listing & cleaning of the bits we eagerly look for at swap meets and boot sales. If you,ve got it and I want it, it,ll cost unless I,ve got something U want.
__________________
macca C15 C15A |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
"Dealers"
As we all know gentlemen.
Änything" is only worth what someone is prepared to pay (or barter) for it. Desperation can add a huge amount to the value of an item......
__________________
What I state is my opinion & my opinion only It's not what you know It's not who you know It's what you know about who.. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
I saw a Mk2 stuart on E-bay within the last year and it went for £14000, it was an elderly restoration and was a runner.
|
#21
|
|||
|
|||
It would be interesting to know whats has happened to the Argentian Shermans.
Are they still in service or scraped. |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
... here's an article in French, but they speak of 20 saved tanks, not just 16 (deux M3 et dix-huit M3A1 Stuart)???
__________________
Swiss Chris aka Christoph Zimmerli - Driving Switzerland's only Aussie F15 www.wheelsandtracks.com >> Condor A580 M+85691 (1952), Swiss Army Motorbike (unrestored) >> F15 1942 Aust (Cab 13) ::: restored by Keefy |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
not sure if Stallwood is running Staman International (i thought he was R n R services) anyway.... there are a load at Staman for sale POA of course, the advert can be traced from www.milweb.net in the for sale section, its top of the pile !
on the price front i agree in some respect that you cant put a price on saving a peice of world history and yes very soon they will almost all be gone. Mind i have to say in the past Mike has always been a fair trader with me, even offered me a complete T16 with 14k on the clocks (requiring resto) for £6000 which is cheap in retrospect. if i win the lottery i will add a grant to my list of carriers wanted and perhaps the odd sherman HOWEVER. i know of unscrupulous people that buy this stuff in for scrap prices than slap a massive price on re sale, i know business is business but surely a tru armour purist would be more concerned about getting the machines to good homes bringing them back to life. however again... on the flip side at least the 50K price tag would ensure a buyer who had the funds to complete the build rather than let it rot away in the back yard. 50K can get a half decent house so you would need to be loaded or part of a syndicate to afford one. |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Hello, I visited Joop Staman's yard a couple of weeks ago and the first 2 bagdes of Stuarts were sold the same day as they arrived at the yard, so if you want to have one you must have a lot of money and be very quickly .
A happy 2009 Hendrik van Oorspronk
__________________
Ford F15A Chevrolet C60S-brkd-5 (4) Carrier MK 1 Willys MB Austin K2 ATV Welbike MK I Volvo L475 |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Here´s a pic of Joop, Mike and some of their customers checking out the hardware
__________________
Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
M3 Stuart Light Tank
choice of two, both running (Original 9 cylinder Guiberson diesel radial engines) and both run and drive, located UK, i have no attachment to the seller.
Quote:
price not known but i doubt they will be less than 30K a peice however a nice opertunity for someone Rich
__________________
is mos redintegro __5th Div___46th Div__ 1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI* Lower Hull No. 10131 War Department CT54508 (SOLD) 1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration). 1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration). |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
The Bovington Stuart is also the diesel version and I remember them claiming at the time it was only cartridge starting like some aircraft.
I assume this was because their tank was missing the starter? |
|
|