MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > Post-war Military Vehicles

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28-06-21, 22:04
Nate Jaros Nate Jaros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 6
Default M38CDN Questions

Hi guys. Iím new to the forum and am looking for some information on M38 CDNs. There seems to be some good knowledge and discussion here, so I wanted to pose a few questions.

I am considering purchasing a 1952 M38 CDN from a fella here in the States. I have a few concerns as the pics and details heís sent me donít quite Ďmatch up.í I love to hear what you think about the following potential issues.

1. Data Plates. The original data plates are gone. The ones attached to the dashboard are clearly repops, and the S/N stamped into the plate is the 52-xxxxx Canadian CAR #, and not the typical F-101xxx number from the factory. Seller says there are no other serial numbers anywhere to be found.

2. The seller hasnít produced a pic of the CAR number stamped into the forward left frame rail, but he says he can get a pic soon and get it to me. I am hopeful.

3. The windshield frame seems legit, but the glass is a split glass setup, which is inconsistent with M38s. And there is only one pneumatic wiper, none on the passenger side.

Aside from that, the M38 looks legit and moderately taken care of. He said it drives great, and operates normally. The 4 wheel drive works well, it doesnít pop out of 2nd gear, and the carb was recently rebuilt. It does have some tub damage here and there that was poorly fixed with bondo, but otherwise it seems to be a legit M38.

Looking for advice. Thanks guys!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-06-21, 03:39
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Jaros View Post
3. The windshield frame seems legit, but the glass is a split glass setup, which is inconsistent with M38s. And there is only one pneumatic wiper, none on the passenger side.
The US army had a MWO for re-purposing M38 windshield glass if one half of it was damaged. I've attached a copy.....sorry about the quality! Maybe the Canadian army adopted a similar method? Worth checking close up how the "split glass setup" on your potential purchase compares to this.

And we want to see photos!

Owen.
Attached Thumbnails
WINDSCREEN_01.jpg   WINDSCREEN_02.jpg   WINDSCREEN_03.jpg  
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-06-21, 21:53
Nate Jaros Nate Jaros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 6
Default

Thank you. Maybe this particular M38 had that mod done to it. Interesting.

As a side note, the seller did just provide a photo of the Canadian CAR# stamp. It looks pretty good!
Attached Thumbnails
E20AA8A5-D4AC-4379-BA24-3BB7AC5D2628.jpeg  

Last edited by Nate Jaros; 29-06-21 at 23:30.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-06-21, 22:49
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 2,857
Default

Nate.

Have you got any photos of the front cowl directly in front of the driver?

Quite a number of M38 CDNís up here were fitted with Southwind Gas Personnel Heater Kits. These mounted on the cowl with a rectangular pattern of bolts right in front of the driver. The windshield assembly then got a major makeover.

The Ventilation Cover bottom centre was removed and tossed. Likewise the two lower gun rack brackets. Wipers were relocated to above the glass and the vacuum feed for same relocated up the left side of the windscreen. Holes were also drilled up the left side of the windshield frame to mount the heater exhaust pipe. More holes drilled directly above the left side windshield clamp to mount the heater control box.

To mount the interior duct work, the plate on the dash holding all the data plates was removed and all the plates drilled off. The plates were then attached to the defroster box that ran along the lower portion of the windscreen. The mounting plate was tossed.

When the vehicles were sold off, all the heater kits were removed prior to sale, so you ended up with jeeps with lots of holes in the windshields and maybe even some rust growing inside the left frame and no data plates. Your vehicle could be one of these. Somebody probably bought whatever windshield they could find to replace the original and get rid of all the missing bits problem.

Another part of the kit was a Safety Valve mounted on the inner left fender, behind and below the horn. The holes might still be down there if this jeep was so equipped.

The last possibility for true Canadian heritage will be signs of a convoy lamp being installed. The toggle switch and data plate were fitted lower left side dash, either vertical or horizontal, below the brake handle and the lamp on the rear cross member under the vehicle, slightly right of centre and aimed at the back of the rear differential case, the centre rear cover of which was painted white.

This would be the easiest explanation for all the odd things you have described.

Best regards,

David
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30-06-21, 01:17
Nate Jaros Nate Jaros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 6
Default

Thanks David. That is some great information! Here are a few more shots from the seller, unfortunately itís pretty far for me to go have a look easily.
Attached Thumbnails
C33382A7-D546-4974-A7FA-4336068C2AD2.jpeg  
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Nate Jaros; 30-06-21 at 01:22.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30-06-21, 01:18
Nate Jaros Nate Jaros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 6
Default

Sorry, having upload problems on other photos.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30-06-21, 02:43
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 300
Default

Attached some photos from the Southwind installation manual, which give a good indication of where to spot the extra holes that David mentioned. I'm reasonably sure that all the M38 CDN's had that large 4-1/8" hole in the dash, btw......on the US-built ones, they started installing that hole in the factory mid/late 1951 (I think!).

I see from your photo that the jeep doesn't have the YS carb or the M38 crossover tube.....but those are very minor details, and easy to rectify if you really wanted to; personally, I would run it just as it is!

Owen.
Attached Thumbnails
M38 heater - cowl holes.JPG   M38 heater - dash holes.JPG   M38 heater - driver fender holes.JPG   M38 heater - windscreen holes.JPG  
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30-06-21, 03:32
Nate Jaros Nate Jaros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 6
Default

Got a good zoomed in shot of the hood area in front of the driverís seat. Doesnít initially look like any holes present. Man... I wish I could get there to see this in person.
Attached Thumbnails
B08E5566-38C2-46DD-81AA-763478A56CCC.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30-06-21, 03:36
Nate Jaros Nate Jaros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 6
Default

Although there is something attached to the center of the windshield below the glass. Like a plate or something. Is that normally there?
Attached Thumbnails
06871AD1-48FE-406A-B899-0083CD274869.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-06-21, 04:13
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 2,857
Default

Hello again, Nate.

I do not know if US Army M38ís were so equipped, but in the front photos you just posted, you can just see the sets of one large and one small hole at the fronts of the fenders and in line with the length of the fenders where the M38CDN turn signal lamps were installed.

I also see a potential Ďred flagí for you in the earlier photo of the front, looking down behind the bumper. I can see what looks like a pneumatic damper bolted to the tie rod assembly. That commercial add-on is nearly always fitted to stop a bad case of tramp, or gallop in the front end, where at a given point in acceleration, or after hitting a bump in the road, the whole front end of the vehicle starts to shake alarmingly. The damper cures the symptoms but not the problem, which can be as simple as unbalanced front tires, flat front springs, worn out tie rod ends, worn out guide pin in the steering box, or any combination of all these factors. Something worth asking about in any event.

You might also want to see what information the guys here on MLU can dig up for you based on the CFR Number stamped on the front frame. At the least, you will get some or all of the basic service history and possibly luck into some better idea of what the serial number might be.

Best regards,

David
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-07-21, 01:37
Owen Evans Owen Evans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
I do not know if US Army M38ís were so equipped, but in the front photos you just posted, you can just see the sets of one large and one small hole at the fronts of the fenders and in line with the length of the fenders where the M38CDN turn signal lamps were installed.
Hello David,

The US Army MWO for turn signals specifies discarding the marker lights in the grill, and replacing with the larger marker lights (8376368) as used on the M37 (and other larger trucks). Have to say, the M38 looks pretty ugly with those lights fitted onto the grill. Some info photos are attached. All that being said, I found a picture of an M38 in service with the US Air Force in the UK......if you look just in front of the BO drive light, it seems like they've fitted "butler" style marker lights to the wings?

Note the US Army MWO also states that it should be applied "only to trucks in, or destined for shipment to, USAREUR and applied on an as required basis....". So, there's a high probability that any US-built M38's that spent all their service life stateside never had turn signals fitted.

Owen.
Attached Thumbnails
marker light 8376368.jpg   custom bracket for 8376368 marker light.jpg   USAF M38.jpg  
__________________
1940 11 Cab C15
1939 DKW KS200
1951 Willys M38
1936 Opel Olympia
MVT # 19406
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Info needed: M38cdn Lyle Watkins The Restoration Forum 0 01-11-17 20:47
My 1952 M38Cdn and PE-95K Gen set Peter Phillips The Softskin Forum 4 07-01-16 06:05
M38CDN Tub M38CDNBill For Sale Or Wanted 0 12-01-08 01:49
M38CDN Markings M38CDNBill Post-war Military Vehicles 1 05-12-06 16:07
M38cdn Denis Post-war Military Vehicles 2 03-03-04 17:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016