Ford/Marmon-Herrington Umbau-Wagen

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rich Payne
I'm not sure if this image belongs with this thread but it is a nice picture from the Belgian publication "Mei 1940" by Peter Taghon and I've not seen it anywhere else.
It is captioned as showing a recently captured Antwerp built Belgian C.47 artillery tractor with the additional information that it ended it's days on the Russian front.

Rich, not quite - as it isn't a German conversion, but it helps in finding out the possible sources for the all wheel drive Ford chassis for the German conversion(s). See the Overvalwagen Forum thread Belgian Ford-Marmon-Herrington 91Y armored car for more pictures of the Tracteur Ford/Marmon-Herrington. Could you please e-mail the uncompressed scan?

Thanks!
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
And another 1939 Ford with with German Kübelwagen bodywork. It does not look like it has a Marmon-Herrington 4-wheel drive conversion, though.

Another pic of a 1940/1941 Ford with German Kübelwagen bodywork. Source: www.afrika-korps.de

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by nuyt

From Wheels and Tracks 30:

"A recaptured Kuebel with as its foundation a Ford/M-H 4x4 chassis, probably an ex-Belgian Army Model 91Y".

Well, I do not think so: It's similar to the one on Hanno's pic. Why would the German army bother to rebuild captured Belgian Ford/M-H's? They were all staffcars anyway. They did not rebuild the Daf-Ford and Chevy staffcars and Pag-trekkers either.

Maybe the Germans would bother because they must have captured at least several dozens of 1-ton Ford/Marmon-Herrington chassis/cowls which had not yet been converted when the Germans invaded - see the thread Mystery Fords?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

More impressed chassis/cowl Ford trucks? Which were later turned into Umbau-Wagen?

Hmm....

Source: Axis History Forum > Beute- and Umbauwagen

[Bill Murray]

Hi Hanno:

I am reasonably sure those are Ford-MH of the Belgian Persuasion.
Just, as we discussed so many years ago further down in the thread.

In any case, there is pretty much no doubt that in such an almost new condition they surely ended up as some sort of Umbau.

As a side point, you rarely see photos of the Ford-MH BE or the Ford-Daf NL being used on the Russian front. Do you know if there were technical difficulties with these vehicles, spare parts problems or............??

Fords from virtually every country in Europe ended up being used on that front so there was nothing wrong with the basic Ford vehicle itself albeit in more "normal" form. Just curious.

Cheers

Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

see the thread Mystery Fords?

Thread merged into this one.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another Umbau-wagen: a Ford/Marmon-Herrington chassis / cowl, presumably ex-Belgium, turned into a Kfz.12 (or Kfz.15).

Picture from p. 257 of British Military Trucks in Wehrmacht Service (where it is incorrectly indentified as a left-hand drive WOC-1 8-cwt 4x2 truck).

[Hanno Spoelstra]

In the background, another impressed ex-Belgian chassis/cowl Ford M-H truck.

Note the unit insignia - it seems they were used as such.

H.

[chrisgrove]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

Officially Model V3000A, Ford Koln model G198TWA of 1943. The transfer case, front axle castings and forgings were prefixed G19TA. These were launched in1942, and 758 were built 1943-44.


The 1956 model was apparently the FK4500A/G700 4 x 4. If the 1953 FK 3500/G798BA used the Marmon-Herrington/Ford transfer case, does this mean that the '56 model alo used M-H components? It appears that Koln produced their own casing to M-H design.

All my references reckon that Ford-Koln built a 3 ton 4x4 truck for the Bundeswehr (must have been about 1956) which was known as the G398 SAM. No idea whether it owed anything to M-H though.

Chris (only a modeller)

[Bill Murray]

Hi All:

The photo below has been sitting on AHF for a while now, begging a positive Id.

It is thought to be a Ford Marmon-Herrington and basically, I agree. But, it seems to be a real "bitser".

1. If we start at the front, the front bumper appears to be a normal one for the 1939 Ford 1 1/2 ton truck.

2. If we then look at the grille/headlamp guard, it gets interesting. the guard looks to be "series production" as opposed to home made. However, it does not match any of the French Contract guards, not the Romanian ones, just nothing but the 1939 style used on prewar US MH trucks and that just does not seem reasonable to be in use by the LW.

3. Looking at the wheels/tyres, after looking at hundreds of combinations, it looks to me like the front wheel/tyre combination is 10:50x16 with a tread pattern seen mostly on the British Fordson Sussex 6x4 series in that size.

4. Moving to the body itself, it looks to me like a vehicle that was either cut down from a chassis/cab unit or perhaps even a New Zealand chassis/open cab variant. The doors are intact up to the point where you can see a "cutoff".
The windscreen is obviously specially constructed.

5. The rear body escapes me for the moment. It looks to be a "series production" body but I cannot place it.

6. The rear wheels are another mystery. Some feel that they are dual rear wheels, others that it is a very narrow replacement rear body that is much narrower than a normal body on this chassis and it has single rear wheels. As dual rear wheels were an option on the 1 1/2 ton MH Ford chassis, I lean in that direction.

So, can any of you MH experts ID this one??

Edit: Sorry, the 3d photo is a Canadian MH but the NZ vehicle looked almost identical.



Bill

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Bill Murray

Edit: Sorry, the 3d photo is a Canadian MH but the NZ vehicle looked almost identical.

Hi Bill,
The third photo is of an Australian MH if I am not mistaken.

regards, Richard

[Mike Cecil]

Yes, it is Australian ... actually Colin Anderson's restoration where he attempted to replicate a 'Tractor, Artillery, Aust No.4' (or 4A), which was designed as the LAA tractor. The rear body is one he put together.

Image appears to have been taken at Corowa, in the early years when Col's tractor was still green. That's a much younger Col sitting in the passenger seat with his arm out the window. Don't know who is driving, but Col was always very generous, so it could be any of us!

Mike

[Bill Murray]

Hi Richard:

Snap..............

I guess we are always at the risk of depending to a certain extent on the identifications provided to us on various websites.

That photo,and some others, have been identified as Australian/New Zealand and Canadian at least in terms of the "generic" Ford MH vehicle.

In any case, if you have some ideas, I would love to see them.

Bill

[cliff]

The cab has been cut down from a full cab model and a new screen built. Rear body is missing the nice round Ford mudguards as seen in your second photo which makes it look odd. Wheels are the same as those on a few Hungarian Ford, Ford M/H photos I have as well as normal civilian type wheels. Rear body is narrow but so are those found on DAF made Ford M/H's.

Have I confused the issue enough now

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Yes, it is Australian ... actually Colin Anderson's restoration where he attempted to replicate a 'Tractor, Artillery, Aust No.4' (or 4A), which was designed as the LAA tractor. The rear body is one he put together.

Interesting to note that the push bars on the front bumper are actually the door stop from the rear of a No.27 Limber

[Rich Payne]

Apparently abandoned on the Albert Canal. May 1940

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps46bf5e4a.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

In the background, another impressed ex-Belgian chassis/cowl Ford M-H truck. Attachment 66584

Yet two more:



Source: http://www.acemodel.com.ua/forum/vie...82b684b89fae68

[Hanno Spoelstra]

And some more, properly converted into Umbau-wagen:



Source: http://www.acemodel.com.ua/forum/vie...=asc&start=405

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another Ford/Marmon-Herrington conversion. Seems this command car type body was fitted to a 1939 1.5-ton truck?

Les Freathy wrote:

Not a good photo but something of interest this Marmon Herrington truck. it looks to be a 15cwt with a local built body in the Far East.