WD / Census Number tags

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Interesting! After assembly in the UK, Canadian order vehicles were allocated a "CMD" number for transit purposes for delivery to the Vehicle Census branch, RCOC. The CMD series may have started with # CMD 1001 and then in due course each assembly operation was allocated a CMD series as an identifier.

[Richard Farrant]

Chris,

Cannot answer specifically for CMP / Canadian vehicles, but as they were allocated WD Census Numbers from Chilwell, here goes. VRD was Vehicle Reserve Depot, which received new vehicles from manufacturers, assemblers, etc. British made vehicles, sometimes had their census numbers applied at the factory and were issued in order of chassis numbers. This helps us now as a few known numbers, we can fill the gaps in. But..........with Bedfords at least, I think the number was probably allocated at a VRD as they are not in chassis number order, likewise with CMP, it would have been impossible, so those that were shipped to England were allocated groups of numbers to each contract. Take a look at the Chilwell list of B vehicles and this can be seen.

The first VRD was at Donnington Park on the prewar race circuit and surrounding area. Others were situated close to manufacturers for accessibility.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

1. However GM Ltd ,when they first started assembly of CMPs, allocated 'GML 1' etc. which was presumably before they knew what numbers were allocated...I assume that they were driven to Chilwell for numbers to be painted on.

2. As regards assembly companies that I know of that assembled Canadian and British vehicles, the photo evidence shows that Census Numbers were allocated as per vehicle as it went down the line, having the numbers painted on after the camo had been put on, presumably in accordance with batch allocations. Canadian vehicles had CMD numbers applied pending Bordon allocating numbers. They were delivered from Southampton, Slough, Liverpool, Goole, we know with CMD numbers. The RCOC Vehicle Census Branch was initially located in Aldershot, as part of 1 Det, RCOC, Aldershot, and then moved to Bordon Camp in June 1940. Vehicles assembled in Southampton were initially issued from around 8th June 1940 at the Mechanical Transport Vehicle Reception Depot at Bordon. After the RCOC had moved into Bordon, vehicles were delivered to what became the 1 Canadian Corps Ordnance Depot (RCOC MT Depot). This, with the Census Branch, transferred from 1 Det to 2 Det in April 1940.

3. As regards Bedfords I can attest from photo evidence that Luton delivered in 1940-41 vehicles with WD census Numbers that had been painted on the line. This was after trade plates were no longer required for delivery.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

3. As regards Bedfords I can attest from photo evidence that Luton delivered in 1940-41 vehicles with WD census Numbers that had been painted on the line. This was after trade plates were no longer required for delivery.

David,

I think things may have changed regarding Bedfords in particular after 1941-ish. Looking a original record cards for that make from around 1942-3 onward, census numbers did not run in any kind of order to chassis numbers. My guess is that any requiring fault rectification or any other hold ups did not arrive at VRD until later hence discrepencies.

[rewdco]

Chris,
Don't know if this can help: I have been wondering for quite a long time what the "data tag" next to the girder forks of this motorcycle was for. Unfortunately, I can't read the exact text on it, but it looks like a number to me... Could it be the same kind of tag you were talking about? Please note: this bike has no census number painted on the petrol tank...???
Cheers,
Jan

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by rewdco

Chris,
Please note: this bike has no census number painted on the petrol tank...???

Jan,

The registration number, GXU... is one of a batch used by Civil Defence and similar organisations. The photo caption say " volunteer DR", they could have been for the National Fire Service perhaps?

[rewdco]

Richard, David,

You're reading my mind... Indeed, I was also pretty sure that this bike was used by the NFS or a similar organisation. But census numbers were issued for each and every WD/CO that left the factory during the war...???

Could it be that these motorcycles originally had a census number, but when they were taken over by the NFS, this number was omitted?

Cheers,
Jan

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Richard, thanks for that. I don't know if anyone knew or knows of Tony Beadle, formerly of American Car World, Triumph World, Porsche World? His father worked for the Ministry of Supply from 1940 and was based I think at the AEC works in Southall. He covered the Vauxhall boxing plant cum repair works in Hendon, and various other west London contractors. It seems that the M of S inspected vehicles supplied under Contracts or Demands, and I can imagine that if a vehicle was not accepted by the Inspector after driven off the line, it was not taken into stock and thus allocated a number. Up until 1941 this may not have occurred simply because the demand was so great....delivery was all-important and rectification could be done later. After that there was a luxury of being able to get rectification work done in the factory before delivery. I can also imagine that the VRDs were swamped in practice by defects and this led to the call for remedial work to be carried out at source.

Going back to spring-autumn 1940, the Southampton CMD was regrettably not immune from the delivery of defective vehicles, and apart from vehicles delivered to Bordon being sent back for rectification work, major problems were experienced with axles that required input from the RCOC in Aldershot to sort out. The return of vehicles from the RCOC depot meant that they were subject to the Luftwaffe's blitz on Southampton 30 Nov/1 Dec and thus lost. The Salvage unit at Bordon then came into its own...which is another story!

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Jan, that motorcycle has a London County Council civilian registration, dating it seems to late war (GXU started August 1943 and ran in theory to November 1946). Other m/cs that had civilian registrations included the St John Ambulance and Red Cross, and Auxiliary / National Fire Service. I wondered if the number you mentioned was a stock number for the frame?

Note also the Road Fund Licence holder with no visible, so far as I can see, tax disc. It may have been exempt as being on His Majesty's Service under the Defence of the Realm Regulations. Fire, Police and Ambulance vehicles were also 'exempt' (actually as now I think they had to be taxed but had a 'nil' charge) but for different reasons as they were emergency vehicles. Or it was required to be taxed but at the nil rate and removing the disc eliminated any dating of the photo.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I think this machoine is being assembled for the Civil Defence. It is in the batch of shots of a Civil Defence solo and sidecar-combo school.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

It seems that the M of S inspected vehicles supplied under Contracts or Demands, and I can imagine that if a vehicle was not accepted by the Inspector after driven off the line, it was not taken into stock and thus allocated a number. Up until 1941 this may not have occurred simply because the demand was so great....delivery was all-important and rectification could be done later. After that there was a luxury of being able to get rectification work done in the factory before delivery. I can also imagine that the VRDs were swamped in practice by defects and this led to the call for remedial work to be carried out at source.

David,

All that makes perfect sense, with inexperienced labour, faults were bound to occur and with parts and facilities at the factory, it makes sense to rectify there, anyway, it is doubtful the MoS inspector would sign them out until they were in order. A thought has just occured, that perhaps the reason that census numbers are out of line with chassis numbers, is that any vehicle held back were not numbered until signed out. The VRD were no more than open storage areas, often on grass. They would accept vehicles, then issue from there once demands came in for that particular type.