1942 Australian 12 cwt Chevrolet Ute - Help!

[Ian McCallum]

I am trying to find out the differences between the civilian and military versions of the '42 chevy ute. I am currently looking at a vehicle that in place of the standard civilian type rectangular instrument unit, as per early CMP's, has in place the typical 'military cluster' as per the later CMP's. These are mounted within the recess that would normally hold the standard unit.

Is it of military origin, what other aspects might be 'pure military' to look for? Vehicle has standard bumper, non opening windscreen and one wiper on drivers side. Was there a true 'military spec'?

Will try and post photo tomorrow, but any info, photos' gratefully acccepted

Ian

[cliff]

This photo is from the AWM. Sorry I can't help with any specs.

Cheers
Cliff

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Ian McCallum
I am trying to find out the differences between the civilian and military versions of the '42 chevy ute. I am currently looking at a vehicle that in place of the standard civilian type rectangular instrument unit, as per early CMP's, has in place the typical 'military cluster' as per the later CMP's. These are mounted within the recess that would normally hold the standard unit.

Is it of military origin,
Ian

The instrument cluster you have sounds like the type fitted into US Chevy 1 1/2ton and GMC 2 1/2 ton trucks.

[Mike K]

Ian ,

Are you sure its a 12 cwt vehicle ? These were based on the sedan chassis . It could be a 15 cwt .

I have seen the military type instrument clusters ( round instruments ) on the late production Chev. 15 cwt GS Vans . The Aust. army parlance for utes , was GS Vans .

Generally , up to 1941 , the utes in military service , were unmodified . Its a grey area as many 39-40 civilian models were taken from civilian owners , and used by the army .

New civilian vehicles were strictly rationed , you had to be a 'essential user ' , e.g., doctor , farmer . The restrictions were eased later on in the war .

Have a look at my article , just click on " Aussie utes in military service "

http://www.geocities.com/vmvc1au/newsletter.html

I have the remains of two 1940 15 cwt utes here ....

Mike

AWM pic of a GMH 42 - 47 Chev 15 cwt . These utes were in production until 1947 . The late production ones had the military instruments . Basically no army mods at all . Quite a few of the post war examples have survived here . The 1941 version , had a seperate cab / ute body . I am not exactly sure when GMH began making the one piece body on these .

P.S. I wonder how many girls today , could change tyres like these girls are doing .

[Ian McCallum]

Thanks for info so far, more confused than ever, especially as knowledge on Aust. Military definitions is obviously wrong.

Do I take it the attached vehicle could be considered a 15cwt van?

Unfortunately I do not have the technology to reduce the instrument cluster photo, will continue working on it.

Ian

[Mike K]

Yes Ian ,

That is a 15 cwt Chev ute . Is it in the UK ?

Here is another one in army use , WW2. As I said , the late production ones , had the military instruments fitted . I am not 100% sure as to when/which instrument cluster change over happened .



Mike

[Mike K]

Another one with tilt and canvas fitted. The formation sign has a cockatoo on it ..... what div/unit is this ? Cmon you experts out there .

Mike

[Mike K]

This is the 1941 variant, serving with the with AIF in Egypt . Note it has a seperate cab / utility body , built by GMH , basically same as the 1940 setup . Note the opening windscreen ( brass frame ) , hinged at top , not seen on the later one piece Chev. utes.

GMH were making ute bodies from 1934 onwards . Many British cars here , Zephyr , Vauxhall, had GMH ute bodies fitted , even pe war Willys too ....

Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
The formation sign has a cockatoo on it ..... what div/unit is this ? Cmon you experts out there .

Mike

Quote: "2nd Australian Corps was raised in 1942 and commanded the 6th, 7th and 9th divs AIF. Renamed "HQ New Guinea Force" in May44 and assumed administrative responsibilities for all Aust activities in PNG."

Source: Stephen Taubert's book "Formation signs of the Aust Army".

[Ian McCallum]

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
Yes Ian ,

That is a 15 cwt Chev ute . Is it in the UK ?

Here is another one in army use , WW2. As I said , the late production ones , had the military instruments fitted . I am not 100% sure as to when/which instrument cluster change over happened .



Mike

Mike,

This particulat ute was for sale in Melbourne, went eventually for $10,000, road legal drive it away! Was being sold as 1946 model.

One thing I have noticed with the various photos is that some appear to have a split rear window, others are one piece?

Also the bonnet sides appear different being smaller vertical vent openings, rather than the longer horizontal ones?

The dash layout in this particular vehicle is as the photo. Will post photo of 'military layout' on next photo.

Ian

Ian

[Ian McCallum]

Find attached photo of vehicle with obvious military dash.

This vehicle is also fitted with a plate in the engine bay on the bulkhead. Normal light steel type with legend 'General Motors of Canada Limited' in the normal arch shape. below this the GM Logo (no maple leaf) shown as 'Made in (logo) Canada'. Normal reverse stamp reading, which I am trying to get clarification on but appears to show the following

Model: 5 1911 91734
Body: ?IAL
Trim
Paint

Held on with screws, but does this plate relate to this vehicle???

Ian

[Ian McCallum]

Now attach photo which should show detail clearly. I got it wrong with reference to the GM logo, there is the standard Maple Leaf entwined! Also I was reading part of the word 'serial' only seeing the IAL

Reads:

Model: blank

Serial: 5-1311-91734 (larger 'P' overstamped at end of serial)

Engine: 4052600 (Stamped into Plate) larger 'CR' overstamped
at start of number

Body Serial: blank

Trim: blank

Paint: blank

Any thoughts, correct plate for vehicle of what?

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Could your serial number be # 5 for 1945 Model, then 1311 etc.? I have no record of a 19XX series, but XX11 was Chassis with flat-face cowl, and 1311 was a 1/2-ton commercial chassis. There were also some sedan chassis assembled by GM-Holden's...Model 1016 for Master and 1216 for Master Deluxe.
It took me so long to find the GMC photo that you beat me to the draw! Yes, 1945 Model 1311 1/2-ton Commercial Chassis with flat-face cowl, sequential # 9 etc. However that#s only part of the story! The plate is a blank plate indicating that this was a chassis only, and that "P" indicates Perth Plant assembly making it rare. The Engine # is a 1945 unit, and the "CR" indicates light Commercial variant of the 216 Chevy unit, and Right-hand drive. However, as the Chassis number is stamped in Oshawa style, I would guess that it was shipped as a chassis minus engine and then the engine was shipped seperately in crates, and added in the Perth Plant who stamped the Plate. The body would have been built in Woodville Plant and then railed to Perth: Buckland Ave and Victoria St, Cottesloe Beach.

Of course whether GM-Holden's uprated it to 15-cwt for military purposes I have no idea..is there a weight limit plate anywhere?

Holden's also assembled GMC Utes, as per the attached though it was badged as a Pontiac...same plant, same engine, but different rad grille? This would also have been a 1/2-tonner.

[Ian McCallum]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

It took me so long to find the GMC photo that you beat me to the draw! Yes, 1945 Model 1311 1/2-ton Commercial Chassis with flat-face cowl, sequential # 9 etc. However that#s only part of the story! The plate is a blank plate indicating that this was a chassis only, and that "P" indicates Perth Plant assembly making it rare. The Engine # is a 1945 unit, and the "CR" indicates light Commercial variant of the 216 Chevy unit, and Right-hand drive. However, as the Chassis number is stamped in Oshawa style, I would guess that it was shipped as a chassis minus engine and then the engine was shipped seperately in crates, and added in the Perth Plant who stamped the Plate. The body would have been built in Woodville Plant and then railed to Perth: Buckland Ave and Victoria St, Cottesloe Beach.

Of course whether GM-Holden's uprated it to 15-cwt for military purposes I have no idea..is there a weight limit plate anywhere?

Holden's also assembled GMC Utes, as per the attached though it was badged as a Pontiac...same plant, same engine, but different rad grille? This would also have been a 1/2-tonner.

David,

You are an absolute star! What a wealth of information and confirms everything I want to know.

With the military style dash, and plate showing '45 manufacture I think I could confidently restore it to military trim.

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Is the original engine there still? On the side of the block near the casting number wil be found a date code: Letter-digits-digit, say "5" for 1945 Calendar Year. That code will tell us when the engine block was cast. I am always reticent about advising whether these 1945 Model Canadian Chevrolets were military orders or early civvy ones. We know that 1945 Model MCP trucks were delivered to the Canadian forces, so I would leave it to you to decide whether it was a military truck or an early civvy one. Post-war we know that GM-H bought back a large quantity of military trucks and then refurbished them for onward sale, just as General Motors Ltd did for civilian sale here in England. However that date code if it is the original engine would prove whether the engine block was cast prior to August 1945.

PS My official CKD chart shows that 1946 Model CKD production started June 1945, so any 1945 Models should thus have been assembled from say September 1944 to May 1945 and thus in wartime.

[Mike K]

Originally posted by Ian McCallum
Holden's also assembled GMC Utes, as per the attached though it was badged as a Pontiac...same plant, same engine, but different rad grille? This would also have been a 1/2-tonner.

David ,

I have never seen a Holden assembled GMC ute badge as a Pontiac here in the East . The 1940's GMC 15 cwt utes I have seen here , had their own GMC engine fitted , which was quite different to the 216 Chev. engine . The GMC engine had full flow lubrication of all the bearings etc. , different pistons , altogether a different motor .

The Wheelbase of the 15 cwt Chevs was 115" . I have my GMH model chart here somewhere , it shows the models they assembled , I should scan it and post it on this topic . Yes , the GMC 's had a different grill .

Holden did assemble Oldsmobile commercial vehicles here also ( trucks and utes ) I saw a 1939ish 15cwt Olds. ute at a swap some years ago , quite a rare thing . GMH fitted the Pontiac S.V. engine in it , these vehicles were badged as Oldsmobiles though .

Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Mike, there is a real story around the points you raise! My head explodes when trying to work out what models were badged as such up to 1942.

The GMC Ute had a Pontiac-built engine, and I think it must be a 222.7 cu in six. I believe that I misdirected myself...I am pretty sure it's actually badged as a GMC, probably a model AC-100. In In North America there were also by then Pontiac Sedan Deliveries, plus the GMC Suburban. In Canada the model line-up varied, with Pontiac SDs, and in 1940 Sedan Chassis, which GMHolden's could have turned into Utes. I initially considered that all Pontiac-badged Utes were thus Canadian-sourced, and all GMCs US-sourced. However on reflection I query whether GM-Holden's imported US Pontiac cars and converted them to Utes as well, and there may have been Canadian GMCs as well. The Canadian sedan chassis may have been available in 1941 but I have no evidence yet. I suppose with diverted cargoes ending up in Australia, anything is possible!

Turning to Oldsmobile trucks, Pontiac, Michigan, Plant [Yellow Truck & Bus Division] started building export Oldsmobile-badged trucks from 1935 for 1936 Model Year and continued it seems to 1940. Olds trucks were imported into the UK in 1937 and 1938 only as were GMCs. They were basically a mix-and-match based on GMC chassis, using in some chassis Chevrolet axles and gearboxes, with GMC chassis and cabs, and Oldsmobile 229.7 cu in engines, which GMC also used as the "GMC 229". By 1937 Pontiac offered for export Chevrolet-badged Normal Control and Cab-over-Engine chassis with Chevrolet 216 or Hercules diesel engines, or GMC* NC or COE with Olds engines or Hercules diesels, or Oldsmobile NC or COE with Olds or Hercules engines. Apart from Chevrolet axles, Timken were also used. The main differences between these export models seems to be the grilles and that's it! I have seen a photo of a Holden-assembled Olds truck and it even had "GMC" foot pedals!


*Export 1/2-ton and 3/4-ton GMCs would have used the Pontiac 6-cylinder engine.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

UI remembered that I have a post-1945 Holden - bodied Chevrolet listing!

1945:

Model 45-4526 CHEVROLET Coupe Utility 1311 Series...i.e. Canadian Chevrolet 1311. This could be military or civilian!

[Ian McCallum]

Thanks 'one and all' that have posted information on this thread.

Bottom line is that I have now purchased the said vehicle, which was in Western Australia and should now be on route via Fremantle to the UK.

Always had a love for these Australian Ute's but the Chevrolet 'Maple Leaf' connections and oportunity to finish in military trim I just could not miss.

Still learning about the breed and would welcome ANY photo's/further information on the 42-46 model in service.

Next task is to sort out a representative set of formation sign/markings, ideally capturing both Western Australia connections in '44 and Papua New Guinea in late '44/'45. On this I will post another thread in the 'Military History & Equipment' area.

Will also post more pics and details of block casting ID when it arrives.

Ian

[Ian McCallum]

Vehicle eventually arrived and was collected from Felixstowe Docks on the 15 December, great Christmas present. Had been 'lost' for several weeks in transit being off-loaded in Rotterdam with other containers to make way for shippers of a higher profile in order to get their Christmas goods to market. I thought at one stage maybe one of our Dutch brothers had got wind it was in transit!

Sorted out one or two minor niggles and have some mods to do to the rear lights, plus fitting of one external rear view mirror at a minimum prior to submitting for the test and registration.

David, engine and body plate information in next message.

Ian

[Ian McCallum]

David,

The engine number is as per the the manufacturers plate shown earlier in this thread, being CR4052600, stamped as per normal adjacent to the dip stick position.

Casting identification is 'GM' below which is '839253'. To the right of this is the number '104'.

The Holden's Body plate is as per the photo, which clearly shows:

Body No. '822'.

Model '45 4526, the first two digits being quite faint (as if the stamp was not held squarely)

Month of Manf. '4'

Your understanding of this being gratefully accepted.

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

It seems to be a 1945 Model as I said before, civilian Ute, based on Canadian-sourced commercial chassis. I suggest that the body may have been assembled in April '45? The engine cylinder block casting number appears to be a unique Canadian number used from 1941-45 at least. The Head might be # 839401. The date code near the block casting number will tell us which day the block was cast, but I suspect that "104" might be part of it, e.g. I = September then "04" for the date then the year, say "4" although it could be Letter/10/4.

[Ian McCallum]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
The date code near the block casting number will tell us which day the block was cast

David,

Thanks for the info, would agree that it appears the body is logically of 'April' manufacture but a bit confused regarding the reply on casting numbers.

I am pretty sure there are no other casting numbers on the offside of the block other than those mentioned. The 'GM' with the '839253' below it are roughly mid way along the block with the '104' towards the front . The casting of the '104' is very clear and prominent and there is most certainly nothing else adjacent to it, what more would you have expected?

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I would have expected a Letter for the month, i.e. A = January, to L = December including I = September, followed by digits for the day, i.e. 1 - 31, and then say "4" for 1944 or "5" for 1945. E.g. on Engine # WR 3808775, Casting # 839253 there is a date code: C52 for March 5th 1942. It is possible that as it was wartime still the castign foundry, McKinnons Industries Ltd of St Catherines, Ontario, used "10 4" for "October 1944" and no date code.

[Ian McCallum]

David,

Many thanks, now I understand the explanation, even if it does not fit the norm!

So, what I can now put together is the following:

From the GM Canada plate it is identified as a 1945 model 1311 1/2-ton Commercial Chassis with flat-face cowl, serial 91734 overstamped on the face with the letter 'P' showing it to be assembled at the GMH's plant in Western Australia. The engine number of CR4052600 has been stamped into the face of the plate.

From the engine block it can be confirmed the vehicle is fitted with its original engine as it bears the number CR4052600. The casting number of 839253 indicates wartime production by McKinnons Industries Ltd of St Catherines, Ontario. Although the '104' code does not follow the norm, but logically could be October 1944.

The Holden's body plate bears the Body No. 822, Model 45 -4526 and shows Month of Manf. '4', probably April 1945.

I am now quite happy knowing this Model 45-4526 Chevrolet Coupe Utility 1311 Series rolled off the line post April '45 but still early enough to fit in with its original as found 'war paint' condition and devoid of chrome.

Out of interest I intend to retain its Western Australian roots and finish it in the markings of the 2-7 Field Regt. RAA, part of the 9th. Australian Division who saw service in late '45 in Borneo.

Last request do you have any information/photos on either the GM'H plant at Perth or Adelaide ?

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

GMHistory@rgt.com.au

is the address for my friend Norm Darwin...ask him if he has any please. And buy his book!

[Zacca]

Yep,
Well thats what my new '46 Holdens military body ute looks like, described as a 1946 five-window styleside ute.
Has the same grille as my 42-46 Chevy 3/4 ton truck. Fitted with the long running boards lto the rear fenders ike the US 1/2 ton pickup.
Still in its WW2 colours which is the original paint, no sign of divisional or unit tac signs or emblems.
The front mudguards/fenders have three stainless horizontal steel trim strips at the trailing edge like the '42 Chev sedan, these could have been add-ons.
I'm arranging for transport to bring it to Cairns, North Queensland.
This truck has been in the Northern Territory desert most of its life and is virtually rust free and complete, it still still runs on its original 216.
I had a look at the dash and the instrument panel, which is the same as my 3/4 ton stock standard Chevy truck.
This is going to be interesting.

Zacca

[Ian McCallum]

Zakka,

Be nice to see a photo of it when time allows.

Ian

[Zacca]

NO news yet fellers, I've been off the net for the past 14 days waiting for my broadband connection.
Just fitted the engine into the 3/4 ton, nice engine, totally rebuilt.
Will keep you posted.

[Lang]

Just to confuse the issue, I had a look at the numbers on my Chev ute.

Some are earlier than Ian McCallum's English one (saw it at Beltring and it looks a picture) and some are later.

Body plate is Number 540, Serial 4526, Month 2 This makes it a few hundred older than the other one.

Then the big ID plate says Model 5-1311-91567B (indicating Brisbane I presume)

This plate also has the Serial number which is the same as the engine number CR4058375 which makes it thousands newer than the other one???? I suspect engine numbers are a poor indicator of age as there would be thousands of engines in the store and all it would take is for the forklift driver to go to the left of the pile instead of the right to jump a few thousand numbers. I think the body number is more accurate as that would be stamped coming along the line.

There is a second large plate from GM-H which says Maximum load 1300lbs GVM 5210lbs

This is the one I am bringing to Normandy next year.