CMP total production figures?

[sapper740]

Question: How many CMPs were built during WWII? I've seen two different numbers quoted, 390,000 and 410,00. Are either correct? Is the difference due to knock down versions exported from Canada? Any info appreciated. Thanks, Derek.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by sapper740
Question: How many CMPs were built during WWII? I've seen two different numbers quoted, 390,000 and 410,00. Are either correct? Is the difference due to knock down versions exported from Canada? Any info appreciated. Thanks, Derek.

Hmmm...I recall a published reference which quoted something like 890,000 CMPs of all variants.

Maybe I'm getting this mixed up with the Canadian total military vehicle production figure.

OK, guys... let's hit the reference books and hopefully post a definitive reply to Derek's question.

[wim sikkelbein]

canada's fighting vehicles
europe 1943-1945

by: W.A.Gregg

in the preface is a table which says:

409.936 cmp(including trailers)

grand total canadian warproduction:

857.970 vehicles,carriers,tanks etc.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by wim sikkelbein
canada's fighting vehicles
europe 1943-1945

by: W.A.Gregg

in the preface is a table which says:

409.936 cmp(including trailers)

grand total canadian warproduction:

857.970 vehicles,carriers,tanks etc.

I think we're getting close to the answer guys. If 410,000 units include trailers, then would 390,000 be the actual number of CMPs? You would think that Canada made more than just 20,000 trailers, but perhaps not. Anyway, thanks for the responses. Maybe someone has a definitive answer for this question.

[cletrac (RIP)]

In Blueprint for Victory, Gregg states that over 800,000 military transport vehicles were produced in Canada during the war as well as 50,000 armored fighting vehicles. He also states that 900,000 military vehicles were produced as well as 1,700,000 small arms.
Chevrolet made over 300,000 military vehicles. The 100,000th Ford military vehicle was a 12 cab.
Canada used 168,000 vehicles of which 34,000 remained in Canada. In Canadian use, there was one vehicle for every three soldiers. The Americans had one for every 5 to 7 soldiers and the Brits had less than that. Canada was the most highly mechanized force in the war.
He also says that 15,000 of the best overseas vehicles were selected to return to Canada. They made it to Ontario then most of them were sent to other UN countries

[wim sikkelbein]

the number of trailers is stated to be 19.663.
the book gives 38 different types of trailers.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I am not sure how these figures are going to come out so here goes:

TOTAL CANADIAN MILITARY PATTERN TRUCKS [per Dr Gregg]
8 CWT. 4 x 2 9,837
HEAVY UTILITY 4 x 4 12,967
15 CWT. 4 x 2 34,195
15 CWT. 4 x 4 69,227
30 CWT. 4 x 4 19,319
3 TON 4 x 2 6,000
3 TON 4 x 4 209,004
FAT 4 x 4 22,891
3 TON 6 x 4 [FORD] 4,123
3 TON 6 x 6 [CHEV C60X] 2,710
TRAILERS 19,663
TOTAL 409,936

ALTERNATIVE C.M.P. PRODUCTION FIGURES

TYPE DRIVE MODELS QUANTITY
8-cwt. 4 x 2 C.8, F.8 937
8-cwt. 4 x 4 C.8A, C.8AX*?,
F.8A 12,967
15-cwt. 4 x 2 C.15, F.15, C8AX*? 34,195
15-cwt. 4 x 4 C.15A, F.15A 69,227
30-cwt. 4 x 4 C.30, F.30 19,319
3-ton 4 x 4 C.60S, C.60L,
F.60S, F.60L 209,004
3-ton 6 x 4 F.60H 4,123
3-ton 6 x 6 C.60X 2,710
FAT 4 x 4 C.-G.T., F.-G.T. 22,891
Rear engined chassis 4 x 4 Ford 9,494
Armoured car 4 x 4 Fox 1,506
Recce car 4 x 4 Otter 1,761
Scout car 4 x 4 Ford Lynx 3,255
Armoured truck 4 x 4 C.15-TA 3,961
Trailers 19,663


* I estimate C8AX production at over 905 units.

GM of Canada also supplied Ford Motor Company of Canada with 11,516 sets of fabricated cab sheet metal.


TOTAL MODIFIED CONVENTIONAL PATTERN TRUCKS

15 CWT. 4 x 2 88,096
30 CWT. 4 x 2 21,188
3 TON 4 x 2 197,073
TOTAL 306,357

TOTAL ARMOURED VEHICLES

UNIVERSAL CARRIERS 28,992 [FORD]
WINDSOR CARRIERS 5,000 [FORD]
ARMORED CARS 1,506 [G.M. FOX]
LIGHT RECCE. CARS 1,761 [G.M. OTTER]
SCOUT CARS 3,255 [FORD LYNX]
ARMOURED TRUCKS 3,961 [CHEV/FORD C-15TA/F-15TA]
VALENTINE TANKS 1,420
TANK CRUISER RAM 1,948
SELF-PROP 25 PDR SEXTON 2,122
TANK CRUISER GRIZZLY 189
TANK COMMANDER O.P. 84
TANK AA 20MM QUAD SKINK 3
TOTAL 50,241
STATION WAGONS, STAFF CARS
AND MISCELLANEOUS 4 x 2 81,942 [BUICK, CHEVROLET, CHRYSLER, FORD]

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

By Calendar Year:

1940 31,097
1941 67,167
1942 78,821
1943 61,367
1944 52,487
1945 42,361

with CMP production ending a"few days" after 11th September 1945.


GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA PRODUCTION FIGURES APRIL 1 1940 TO MARCH 31 1944
YEAR CHEV & G.M.C.M.T. ARMY DESIGN TRUCKS WORKSHOPS STORES LORRIES WRECKERS SHOPS 6 X 6
[C.60X] TOTAL BY YEARS
1940 7,368 10,291 NIL NIL NIL NIL 17,659
1941 20,471 30,913 259 273 268 NIL 52,184
1942 16,370 59,885 187 197 183 418 77,240
1943 11,976 47,953 181 70 159 809 61,148
1944 3,795 9,977 NIL NIL 90 386 14,248
TOTAL 59,980 159,019 627 540 700 1,613 222,479


INCLUDED IN THIS TOTAL WERE THE FOLLOWING SHIPMENTS
AUSTRALIA 25,352
NEW ZEALAND 1,457
INDIA 69,279
SOUTH AFRICA 2,497
MALAYA 72
TOTAL 98,657


I have the Walkerville 216 engine production figures by month, and by Model Year to end of 1945, plus CKD production.

I also have the total shipped CMP and MCP, plus SWs and cars shipped to the UK to May 1945 but have not been through the, yet to break them down but it's not relevant here.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Further to David's comments (very interesting), from the DND Report I have a copy of:

During July and August 1945 the Canadian Morrison Mission arrived in the UK to determine what vehicles should be returned to Canada for the use by the post-war Army, and then requested 2,624 cased vehicles which were immediately shipped back. A further 3,229 vehicles were held in abeyance pending a deal with the War Office or other agencies regarding their disposal, and continued to be held until at least November 1945. Of the remaining vehicles, only 169 were found surplus to Army requirements consisting mostly of tractor units without the cancelled semi-trailers. Some of the cases remaining in the dumps had stood as long as three years by end of June and a large percentage needed repairs before they could be shipped. With the co-operation of the Ministry of Supply and the operators of the dumps, the case repair programme was carried out in three to four weeks and all residual cases by the November were able to withstand a sea voyage back. By then 1,965 vehicles had been shipped and 659 were held up be a Dockers’ strike and shipping restrictions.

[Ian Grieve]

David

Is the DND Report British or Canadian (I suspect Canadian)?

Are you talking of shipping from Europe or the UK?

Was there any mention of the Ford GPA in the report?

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

From the Canadian CMHQ Report to 30th April 1945:

MOTORCYCLES SOLO HEAVY HD: 10,969 including 42 damaged by sea water; parts salvaged; Also 2,850 routed direct from Ports to Ordnance Depots)

MOTORCYCLES COMBO HEAVY HD: 43 includes one destoyed by fire

TRACKED JEEP: 1

CARS 5 CWT 4 X 4: FORD & WILLYS: 148 LANDED IN UK BUT NOT AT CMD (assembly depot); 40 AT CMD UNDER CONSTRUCTION; 3 BUILT AND READY FOR DELIVERY; DELIVERED TO ARMY SERVICES 8,226*; DELIVERED THIS PERIOD (APRIL 1945) 178; *INCLUDES 31 TO "A.A.I."...whatever that means!

SPECIAL PROVISION & EXPERIMENTAL VEHICLES:

CARS 5 CWT 4 X 4 BANTAM: 1; FORD: 1

AMPHIBIOUS CARGO TRUCK: GM DUKW 1
AMPHIBIOUS CARGO TRUCK: JEEP FORD 1

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
INCLUDES 31 TO "A.A.I."...whatever that means!

AAI is the Allied Armies in Italy

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

[Ian Grieve]

David

Great to catch up.

I have had a look through the following site and do not see the report you mention;

http://www.dnd.ca/DHH/history_archiv...hq_e.asp?cat=1

Do you have a report number, title and date (if not 30th April 1945)?

(Another five rolls of DND microfilm have just arrived from Canada)

Ian

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Clive sent it to me from the National Archives, so it's buried in the NA it seems!

[Lang]

This may have been posted before but worth repeating. Has all wartime production included. Looks like a hardworking Kiwi has put it together.

http://www.gregwapling.com/hotrod/ch...dian-chev.html

Lang

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Lang

Interesting data base, now I'll have see how the numbers off my engInes fit.

Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Actually, that data is the fruit of David Hayward's work - scroll to the very bottom of the page. David was MLU's resident historian on Chevrolet and other manufacturers.

[Lang]

Thanks Hanno

I saw all the engine numbers for what looks like current NZ restored vehicles and assumed it was from there. Maybe they have built on David's great work.

Lang

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I can't recall seeing numbers for the various variants of CMP HUP vans. What I have gleaned is that there were about 13,000 or so made and the HUP was the most numerous followed by the HUW then ambulances (190 or so?) and even fewer of the computers, workshops and staff cars.

Can anyone point me to production numbers for these?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The last section of Saunder's "Ford at War" book lists "Brief Statistics of some of the British Empire - Ford Companies’ War Effort"

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

FORD INDIA
Two-wheel drive vehicles | 64,216
Four-wheel drive vehicles | 45,213
Six-wheeler vehicles | 3,088
Miscellaneous makes | 9,876
Civil - 11,614

FORD CANADA
Universal Carriers | 33,988
Total War Vehicles supplied | 395,209
Total Investment by employees in 8 Victory Loans and in War Savings | Over $17,000,00
Total Blood donations to Red Cross by employees | 24,650
Employees in Armed Services | 5,624
Highest average employment (employees) | 15,637

FORD SOUTH AFRICA
Passenger vehicles | 1,517
Truck deliveries | 31,336
Station Wagons | 126
Light Deliveries | 879
Various | 1,011

FORD NEW ZEALAND
Special War Department Vehicles | 1,162
Conventional Type Defence Trucks | 3,611
Defence Staff Cars | 164
Fordson Tractors | 21
Miscellaneous Units| 242

Vehicles recovered from Pacific War Zone and Re-conditioned---*
Jeeps | 1,117

Munition Production
Grand Total of Grenades | 5,720,522
Mortar Bombs (Assembled and Filled) | 1,205,400
Mortar Bombs Fuses (Filled) | 1,165,103
Fuse 119 (Manufactured and Assembled) | 1,140,174
Aircraft Bomb Striker Head (Manufactured) | 70,857
Fuse 132 Striker Head (Manufactured) | 173,400
Fuse 132 Striker (Manufactured) | 63,766
Transceiver Condenser Shaft (Manufactured) | 18,201
Transceiver Condenser Clamp (Manufactured) | 15,019
Aircraft Drogue Targets (Manufactured) | 680
Aerodrome Windsocks (Manufactured) | 100
Aircraft Wing Covers (Manufactured) | 12
Aircraft Seat Covers (Manufactured) | 90
Grenade Boxes (Assembled) | 175,290
Naval Engines (Reconditioned)) | 110

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some more info:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Also see the thread Australian Production Numbers:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2247