Canadian Ferrets

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

I am researching the 124 Canadian Army Ferrets, their military service and their current location/owner. My goal is to find every one and match up historical photos where the identity is known. Ideally of course I want to find history and photos of MY Ferret while it was in service.

I have a web page about the Candian Ferrets at: http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/ferret.htm

For anyone with access to ex-Canadian Ferrets in private hands, museums, as targets or as monuments, I would love to gather info LOCATION e.g 54-82500, SERIAL NUMBER e.g. 392.B.5.4 AND original CAR (CFR) NUMBER. For examaple I have the CAR/CFR numbers for the 9 Ferrets that the Ferret Club/Ontario Regt. bought but not the correesponding Hull serial numbers. I have two hull numbers for them but do not know which CAR they connect to.

My ex-Canadian Ferret (Hull # 392-B.5.4; CAR 54-82598) served with Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) and previously with the Combat Arms School.

A friend out here, Grant McAvoy, has one (Hull # 388.B.5.4; CAR unknown) that served with the United Nations (Green with yellow lettered UNITED NATIONS decal in Cyprus?), in Germany and with LdSH as "COYOTE."

The BC Regt and LdSH(RC) Ferrets currently in use for historical purposes are apparently all ex-Brtiish Army BATUS.

I am looking for the machineguns mount(s) for the Ferret Mk. I for the Bren and also for the Browning (late model was apparently the No. 8 Mk. I MG mount). Also looking for a nice C-42 radio and a dewat 1919A4 MG (in Canada).

My Ferret is shown at http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/ferret_392.htm



Colin Stevens. CD
Mission, BC

[Jon Skagfeld]

Colin...

Good to see you are lurking about this forum.

Been a while since you've expressed your great bank of knowledge about well researched things.

All is well with the Seaforths?

Regards

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Jon & gang:

I have been busy researching and acquiring MVs and getting life settled. New job in 2005 as Manager of the New Westminster Museum and Archives. Happily, the city is PROUD of its military history (unlike neighbouring cities). Our city is the oldest city in Western Canada, was established by the Royal Engineers, has its old cannons proudly on display and the armouries is right behind City Hall.


Colin Stvens
1942-3 BSA airborne bicycle (all original missing only pump)
1943 Welbike Mk. II (early - under restoration)
1943 Welbike Mk. II (late - all original including markings)
194? MBT jeep trailer (ex-USMC? unrestored)
1944 Willys MB jeep (ex-Norwegian Engineers & Norwegian HVK and believed to be ex-British 1st Airborne Div 1945 liberation of Norway)
1953 M100CDN jeep trailer (all original ex-Seaforth Highlanders of Canada and Royal Westminster Regiment)
1954 Ferret Mk. I [CAR 54-82598 Hull # 392.B.5.4 Oriiginal ex-LdSH(RC) and Combat Arms School]

[Dan Sicotte]

Can you send me an e-mail. I have contacts in Petawawa, and they can check out the 4 or 5 that are at the base. I helped restore one, and have loads of pictures. Radley-Walters' ferret is on the RCD display stand, along with two more. The base has one, and the RCD have one runner.

I have some pics of Rob Love's ex-ferret (if Rob doesn't object to me sharing them), and some of mine (BOAR Mk 2/3).
Dan Sicotte
ferret_man_52@yahoo.com

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Colin Macgregor Stevens
I am looking for the machineguns mount(s) for the Ferret Mk. I for the Bren and also for the Browning (late model was apparently the No. 8 Mk. I MG mount). Also looking for a nice C-42 radio and a dewat 1919A4 MG (in Canada).

Colin, there is an MV collector in Sherman, Texas by the name of Les Branson who owns a Mk I Ferret. I'm not sure if it's ex-Canadian or not but I will endeavour to find out. Les is a gunsmith and a machinist. He told me at the recent reenactment at Brent Mullins Jeep Parts in College Station that he was making reproduction Bren mounts for MVs. Unfortunately, he is very difficult to contact. He refuses to own a cell phone and seldom answers his phone, but I have contacts in the Red River chapter of the MVPA and I'll ask them to contact Les for me. Stay tuned.

P.S. Good to see you're included in Bruce MacMillan's group planning to go to Normandy in 2009.

CHIMO!

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's one on display at the base at Wainwright, Alberta.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Colin Macgregor Stevens
I am researching the 124 Canadian Army Ferrets, their military service and their current location/owner. My goal is to find every one and match up historical photos where the identity is known.

Colin, at least four ex-Canadian Ferrets were imported and sold by Rapco in Bowie, Texas. As I mentioned earlier, Les Branson owns CAR 54-82534 Hull #310-B-2-4. He says the other three Ferrets are all nearby in Texas somewhere. I'll attempt to track them down for you. Les has made repro Bren Gun mounts and is asking $100.00 each. His number here is (903) 989-2984 and he anticipates your phone call. CHIMO!

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/82534.jpg

Thank you for the info. Just yesterday I received a batch of photos from the Royal Canadian Dragoons (great bunch of people) in Petawawa and Les Branson's Ferret 534 shows up in two of the Cyprus photos while serving with the United Nations Forces in Cyprus (UNFICYP)!

I'm still looking for photos in service of mine 54-82598



Colin Stevens

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

For the other ex-Canadian Ferrets in Texas (well, anywhere in the World actually), I would very much like to know:
1. the owners' names
2. vehicle VIN (Hull) numbers (e.g. 392.B.5.4)
3. Canadian Army Registyration number (e.g. 54-82598)
4. Any markings and paint colours/schemes found on the vehicles
5. Any interestng items found inside (e.g. foreign money, matchbook covers with a place name, army papers etc.)

Always looking for photos of Canadian Ferrets in military service.
Attached photo : Canadian Army Ferret 54-82510 at Sarcee (Calgary), Alberta, 1974 [Sorry it is so large]



Colin Stevens
Colin Stevens' Canadian Ferrets Web Page

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/Ferret%20...ort%20side.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"Ferret equipped recce troop out on a route reconnaissance exercise.
1968 (?)
Somewhere in the Okanagan Valley, BC, Canada"



Source: www.virtualmuseum.ca

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Many thanks for the lead.

I was able to examine the original of this photo a month ago. It is part of the British Columbia Dargoons collection at the Kelowna Museums (Okanagan Military Museum - attn Keith.)

The M38CDN jeep and the 1954 Ferrets Mk. I were then on issue to the BC Dragoons. It is circe 1955-6 as I recall before the Regular Army recalled the Ferrets from the Reserves.

I was recently informed that Jay Leno now has an ex-Canadian Ferret. I am writing to him to establish its identity (CAR/CFR). It is restored, has the sand channels (yes we carried them - in Sinai) but has the British WD number and a large maple leaf that I think is spurious. Nice touch - happy to see it acknowledged for its Canadian military service, but not a service marking as far as I know.

[Ed Storey]

Here are some images of Ferret hulls that I photographed at CFB Petawawa Range Control in the spring of 1982. I believe these hulls became hard targets on the range.

[servicepub (RIP)]

There are three Ferrets in the Ottawa area, one is owned by a car dealer in Ottawa and the other two are located near Kingston on the estate of a wealthy individual.
We may be able to get you intros during your upcoming Ottawa visit.
Clive

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Thank you Ed.

One with a base of forward MG mount has "-82508" chalked on the glacis. This would be 54-82508. A sad ending as that Ferret had been in Cyprus with UNFICYP. See photos on my web site
http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/ferret.htm

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/snoopy.jpg
Royal Canadian Dragoons Archives of 508 - photo taken in Cyprus



Fort Garry Horse photo in Cyprus. Note the CAR/CFR for 508 is now painted in smaller numbers above the driver's head.

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/110%25%20...photo.jpg1.jpg
And here is 508 while serving with the Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) (LdSH Archives)

23 Canadian Ferrets were designated as hard targets, 4 of those at Petawawa. 508 was included along with
500 (an UNFICYP vet)
509
526

It appears that all 4 are there in your photos. At first glance it looks like 3, but careful analysis shows two without the front MG bases and barrel rests. The other two have this assembly still in place. 508 still has it's driver's escape hatch and steering box with barrel rest in the upright position. The other Ferret with MG base has no driver's escape hatch and no steering box. The last photo appears to show two ferrets in foreground with no MG mounts, and MG mounts on two Ferrets in background (those Ferrets facing in opposite directions).

So this is good evidence that 500, 508, 509 and 526 did go to the ranges as scheduled. Still it would be nice to have 100% proof by having someone check the hulks on the ranges for the stamped in CAR/CFR numbers as per this photo of 511 which was saved from another range. Do all 4 remain on the range there or were any saved later?

Rob Love photo, Shilo, MB


Ed ... Please contact me off list as I would like to ask you a question. seaforth72 (at) gmail.com

Clive ... Thank you for the lead.


Colin

[sapper740]

Colin, check out ebay auction #140171803279

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

In re-examining Ed Storey's photos taken at Petawawa in 1982, it looks like there are only 3 Ferrets not 4 as I had thought. 508 appears to be in the middle.

I just received an original 1980s ad from a US Ferret owner )Les Branson) - advertising 71 Canadian Ferrets for sale at $6,500 each and located in Canada (but being sold by a US company).

I have written to the Florida eBay seller of the ex-Canadian Ferret Mk. I. I'd like to identify the CAR/CFR for both of his Ferrets and help identify their histories and keep track of whoever buys it. It would be nice if it came back to Canada. eBay auction: 140171803279 US $6,000 located in Winter Haven, Florida, USA. OK Canadian Snowbirds who winter in Florida .... go get her!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=140171803279




COLIN

[Brad Mills]

Colin,

I have been in touch with the ebay seller and the
CFR # is 54-82505
Hull number is 289.B.2.4


Does anyone know the history of this one?

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

This is the 6th Ferret bought by Canada (they started numbering them at 54-82500).

I do not have an in-service photo of this one ... YET.
;-)

Annex A
To: 12320-126-18 (DPSL 3-S)
Dated: 22 May 81
(I have an original copy via Rob Love in 2001) says:

82505 Calgary Disposal CADCI 50799 Apr 81

In other words 54-82505 was sold out of Calgary surplus on document CADCI 50799 (Crown Assets Disposal Corporation ...) in April 1981.

Since it was sold out of Calgary, it served with Lord Strathcona's Horse Regiment (Royal Canadians) though not necessarily for a long time as mine also served there but had moved around. After sale, it would likely have been held by Gordon Cumming of Crown Surplus Stores in Calgary, Alberta for the US owners until shipping was arranged to USA.

Photos show that this vehicle is missing some small stuff (side lights, mirrors, sand channel mounts, fire extiguisher and bracket, tool mounts on glacis plate and spare tire hub cap). Interior is in unknown condition - though fuel tank shows through hatches. Original paint and markings showing. Note Canada flag on starboard upper glacis plate. Also not up[right brackets on starboard fender. Side stowage bin has rust showing.

It was NOT one of the Cyprus UNFICYP Ferrets to the best of my knowledge. I do not know if it served in Germany or UNEF (1).

Having said that, it could be restored as:
1. Semi-gloss green as delivered, with 19 set and Bren (replica mount cost $100 & shipping from Texas)
2. Green or white with Bren and 19 set and light blue UNEF markings for Sinai Desert 1957 ... (interesting looking, oil stains would show - don't use CWM one as a guideline as it is not correct).
3. Green with UNITED NATIONS markings in UNFICYP (Cyprus). UNITED NATIONS was in yellow letters not white as per today.
4. Camouflage for NATO Germany (Browning .30 cal 1919A4 / 7.62 mm conversion)
5. Camouflage for Canada c.1970 onwards with Browning 1919A4

It needs a full restoration but it would be nice to see it come back to Canada.

Seller has a second Feret Mk.I which he is keeping (it appears in background of one photo).

OK you Eastern Snowbirds ... your mission, should you choose to accept it ...

Over 4,000 Ferrets were made. Parts ARE available through some US suppliers so you do not have to ship everything from UK. Some parts are getting hard to get. You might find some Canadian sources for some parts.

Canada only owned 124 Ferrets (plus we appear to have rented a couple with turrets in Cyprus) . Of those 124,
1 burned
1 scrapped
10 monuments
23 hard targets
1 funeral vehicle
4 to museums (1 to a US museum)
84 sold (9 went to the Ontario Regiment; 73 to a US dealer!)
A few monuments and targets were later saved or made into monuments. Bottom line is VERY FEW CANADIAN ARMY FERRETS are in private hands in Canada!

Many Canadians wanting a Ferret end up with British surplus examples (and even several of these are in military museums in Calgary, Vancouver and Niagara-on-the-Lake). Even the armoured units with historical troops have a mix of Canadian and British Ferrets.

In BC we have 2 ex-Cdn Ferrets 54-82598 (mine) and 54-82591 (Grant McAvoy's) and two ex-British Ferrets - one ex-BATUS and one via Belgium)

For more info about Canadian Ferrets with lots of photos see http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/ferret.htm

There is a wonderful forum of Ferret owners who help each other. Ferret Heaven. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ferret-heaven/

There is an other web site Ferret AFV.org http://www.ferret-afv.org/

And Doug's heavy metal site, more info there as well as pics and more. www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/index.html



Colin Stevens,
Mission, BC

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Jay Leno recently bought a restored ex-Canadian Army Ferret Mk. I

It looks lovely, but appears to have the British War Department number painted on it and a maple leaf (apparently ficticious marking but nice to see Canada acknowledged.)

I do not yet know its identity. I have written to Mr. Leno to ask him what the CAR/CFR and hull number are. Although they say it is a 1953, it is almost certainly a 1954.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/your_g...ars/5449.shtml

[Wayne McGee]

I took a close look at that Leno site and realized that none of the vehicles on the page called "Your Garage" are actually Jay Leno's wheels but people who have posted thier cars to his site.
I have no idea about any contact info availible on the owner on that site however perhaps Jay could help put you in touch.

Cheers

Wayne

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

I found an address to his TV show and mailed a letter.

Yes the "Jay Leno's Garage" web site is in two parts - Mr. Leno's collection and guests' vehicles. A bit confusing as I found I was searching for the Ferret under Guests' vehicles ... and could not find it.

COLIN

[servicepub (RIP)]

I have photos showing Ferrets with the following census numbers;
82514
82601
82575
82500
82557
82519 (x2)

as well as this one which does not display a census number but the licence plate is;
8684-F
20268-F
23450-F

In addition I have a few that display UNEF numbers only and/or the Roadrunner image. These can be seen during your upcoming Ottawa visit.

Clive

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi Colin

Have sent you an email.

Ferret 54-82583 has been found.

Ref the RCD one in Pet, we did paint # 54011 on her glacis but obviously that's incorrect. It's just that 011 is the trade ID for Armd Crewman. I'm sure Frank L. can check it out for you if he scrapes a bit of paint.

regards
Darrell

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi Colin

Please enjoy some pics of the Det Moncton Ferret. I confirm it's 54-82583. So much for being a hard target in Aldershot but that's a good thing, right?

I'll send better res shots to your email.

regards
Darrell

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Colin,

You probably know about this Ferret for sale in Tulsa, OK, USA: http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/in-mk1.htm

The seller notes:"This Ferret was used by the Canadian military during its service life. The sale will include a set of British manuals for the vehicle. Since this vehicle will require work to become operational we are selling it at a very reduced price."

HTH,
Hanno

[Dan Sicotte]

Upon closer inspection, it's missing a lot of parts. But mostly complete. The engine compartment hull stiffening bar for starters. It's the V shaped bar that's attached to the sides of the hull. it sits above the engine ( Very important and hard to find).
I have asked for a price .
Wait out.
I am still on the hunt for a good restorable Mk 1 (preferably an ex-Canadian one).
Dan

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

So far I have only found 4 ex-Canadian Army Ferrets in PRIVATE ownership in Canada (2 in BC including mine; 1 in ON, 1 in NS - would like to hear of any others :-). Other privately owned Ferrets in Canada found so far are ex-British Army or from other countries such as Belgium. Most surplus Canadian Ferrets went to the USA. There are several ex-Canadian Ferrets for sale right.

I found a very nice ex-Canadian Ferret (54-82524 ex-LdSH) last year in New Mexico USA and after I told the Lord Strathcona Horse about it, they bought it and shipped it to Edmonton for use with their historical troop I believe.

At this time there is an ex-Canadian Ferret for sale in Oklahoma, two more in Florida (54-82505). I have them listed on one of my web pages about the Canadian Ferrets, and another one in Illinois.
Ferrets for Sale (page to be updated shortly - 2008 Jan 10)

Sadly many of the ex-Canadian Ferrets in the USA seem to have been left out in the elements and are in peeling paint condition with rusting or missing bins and picked over for parts.

The Oklahoma one is the nicest one available at this time.
"It has recently been painted on the exterior so the only thing I have is what is stamped into the hull at manufacture: 295.B.2.4 It has a Brit data plate added on but I think that was done by a collector. It is off a Mk1/2. ... the smoke dischargers have been removed from the vehicle and are not included in the sale." (info from the seller) This means it is the 295th Ferret made. It was made in February 1954. Its Canadian Army number is not known at this time as the seller does not wish to scrape the new paint to find it where it is stamped into the metal. Its Canadian number would be ABOUT 54-82510 (54-82511 in Shilo, MB is hull 296.B.2.4 but the hull # and CFR do not correspond exactly.)

Hopefully a Canadian will buy it and bring it back to Canada.
:-)
I hope the buyer will contact me as I may be able to tell them some of its history (e.g. whether or not it served in Egypt or Cyprus on peacekeeping duties).

The seller is:
Pat Eagan
Khaki Corps Imports
Tulsa, OK
(918) 698-1955

sales@khakicorpsimports.com

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Correction on my last posting: There is an ex-Canadian Ferret for sale in Wisconsin, not Illinois. It is in Sturgeon Bay, WI. It needs a full restoration apparently.

My own ex-Canadian Ferret (54-82598 ex-LdSH & Combat Arms School), located in Mission, BC although not formally listed for sale, was bought as an investment so I would sell at the right price. It is very solid, no rust out, complete and original and I have been working on it and I have obtained many accesories and parts for it e.g. NOS carburetor, NOS gunner's seat, NOS mirrors & arms, NOS steering wheel, No. 8 Mk. I machinegun cradle, C-42 radio, camouflage net, shovel, thermos, wire cutters, tow cable, copies of manuals etc.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Colin:

Do you know of Fred vanSickle who runs Collector's Source in the Acton area?

At one time he was importing Ferrets and selling them for $12000.00 (roughly late eighties).

He might have some leftover historical info that may be of interest to you.

There was also a fellow out past Hamilton who had a turreted Ferret, so wouldn't be Canadian, n'est-ce pas?

[Dan Sicotte]

I got my reply from Khaki imports. $9990. So for $10 shy of $10,000, you get a non running ferret, wiring is a mess, fuel filler neck isn't there, even if you succeed in getting it running, there is no bar in the engine compartment to solidify the hull. no driver's seat, no pioneer tools, or brakets. No radio, no AMU mount, no rubber around the CC hatch.....etc. Do you get a steering wheel?I bought mine for a bit more than that, and got an excellent vehicle, with all the fixins'.
What's going on in the world?
Dan Sicotte