Need definitive proof that my CMP is a C15

sapper740 · #1 31-10-06, 16:39

For two years now I've had an ongoing dispute with my local Home Owners Association over my truck. It seems a few jerks don't like having a military vehicle in the neighbourhood. They've sent me many letters demanding I remove my truck, but have never quoted exactly which By-law I'm in violation of. Now the pricks have hired a lawyer and are threatening me with fines of $200.00/day if I don't remove the CMP. Stuff the bastards I say! They have based their demand on this By-law, and I quote:
"Trucks with tonnage in excess of one ton shall not be permitted to repetitively park overnight on the streets, driveways, or other areas within the Property."
I am countering with the fact that my truck is a C15, otherwise known as a 3/4 ton so the by-law doesn't apply to me, assuming that "tonnage" applies to nomemclature and not actual payload. Here's my problem. My CMP has no data plates, and the frame has been lengthened at some time in it's past. Knowing this, how do I prove to the Home Owner Nazis that my truck is indeed a 15cwt? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

CHIMO!

Alex Blair (RIP) · #2 31-10-06, 16:56

Sapper..
What is it registered and plated as..??
That should be all you need to get it done..
If it isn't allready, do it quick..
The model # should be stamped some where on the inside of the frame..under the drivers door..by the rear springs or by the steering box..
Might need a stong light and a wire brush but it should be there some where..Once you find that and post it I can tell you what it is..
At least what it started out as...\

Hanno Spoelstra · #3 31-10-06, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
My CMP has no data plates, and the frame has been lengthened at some time in it's past. Knowing this, how do I prove to the Home Owner Nazis that my truck is indeed a 15cwt?

Sorry, but I cannot see how you would. Even if it started life as a C15, it has been so heavily modified any resemblance with a C15 like it rolled off the production line is gone.

Your only real chance is like Alex said, show the registration documents. Here's hoping those documents state it has a tonnage less than one ton . . .

Good luck!

Hanno

Related thread: CMP ID Need help

sapper740 · #4 31-10-06, 19:11

Thanks Hanno and Alex for your reponses. My registration, which is how it was registered by the previous owner, might be my saving grace. It lists the truck as a 1942 Chevrolet Pick-up truck. and in the fine print states "Tonnage 0.75" I hadn't noticed that before. However, my registration also incorrectly lists the empty weight and gross weight as 4500lbs. and 6000lbs. respectively. Depending on how far the H.O.A. and their lawyer wish to pursue this, i.e., making me weight the truck, is there any other definitive way? Is the fact that it is 2 wheel drive sufficient to identify it as a 15cwt? I don't recall any 30cwt or 60cwt trucks built in two wheel drive. Thanks all for your help.

Keith Webb · #5 31-10-06, 19:21

There was a 4X2 version of the 60CWT, but this is exceedingly rare and had a tubular front axle, so if yous has the same as other 4X2 CMPs then you're pretty right about the carrying capacity. The gross vehicle mass though would be around 4 tons though, but the bylaw I think relates to carrying capacity - because even most SUVs would weigh in excess of 1.5 tons.

P.S. Just saw the other thread with the pic of the tubular front axle... if that's the truck you're talking about then maybe you'd better find a small axle to replace it.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #6 31-10-06, 19:27

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
Thanks Hanno and Alex for your reponses. My registration, which is how it was registered by the previous owner, might be my saving grace. It lists the truck as a 1942 Chevrolet Pick-up truck. and in the fine print states "Tonnage 0.75" I hadn't noticed that before. However, my registration also incorrectly lists the empty weight and gross weight as 4500lbs. and 6000lbs. respectively. Depending on how far the H.O.A. and their lawyer wish to pursue this, i.e., making me weight the truck, is there any other definitive way? Is the fact that it is 2 wheel drive sufficient to identify it as a 15cwt? I don't recall any 30cwt or 60cwt trucks built in two wheel drive. Thanks all for your help.

Sapper ...
You are laughing.....
Photostat the registration ,enlarge it...blank out all other info other than name, address, make, model and tonnage(Highlighted)..
Photo stat the lawyers letter...
Include the two photostats back to the laywer with a note to him ..
Such as ...
"My 3/4 ton truck is in complyance with the law and is staying in my driveway....
Your move..."
Say no more...If they want to take you to court it is up to them to prove that it isn't a 3/4 ton truck...
Ain't law great...
Them having to prove it isn't is going to be a hell of a lot more expensive than your 50 Cent stamp on the lawyers letter..You don't need a lawyer to reply to the lawyer..but only give him the info that proves it is your's and it is registered as a 3/4 ton...no more...
Keep us up on the battle..
And if they don't cease and desist,there are all kinds of ambulance chasers that would love to sue on your behalf and split 50/50.....with nothing up front and nothing if they loose..
So you are in the drivers seat..
Or you could call one anyway and sue them right off the bat for harassment ....That is the American way...
I think you have a great chance of winning..
The stress of the situation should be worth a million anyway..then you could fly in to our meetings at Gracies in Ottawa..

sapper740 · #7 31-10-06, 21:17

"HANG ALL THE LAWYERS!"

Great advice Alex. That is exactly what I'll do, then let them go to the expense to prove otherwise. I already have a great case for harassment, as they have repeatedly ignored my requests for a hearing on this matter, which is my right under the Covenants, Restrictions, abd By-laws. I've done a little research about succesful lawsuits against Home Owner Associations and harassment and capricious enforcement of the by-laws figure prominently. Maybe I'll get to Gracie's sooner rather than later! I'll keep all y'all informed on the progress.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #8 31-10-06, 21:29

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
"HANG ALL THE LAWYERS!"

Great advice Alex. That is exactly what I'll do, then let them go to the expense to prove otherwise. I already have a great case for harassment, as they have repeatedly ignored my requests for a hearing on this matter, which is my right under the Covenants, Restrictions, abd By-laws. I've done a little research about succesful lawsuits against Home Owner Associations and harassment and capricious enforcement of the by-laws figure prominently. Maybe I'll get to Gracie's sooner rather than later! I'll keep all y'all informed on the progress.

Sapper...

In the social pecking order there are
Folks like us....
Juvenile delinquents
Robbers
Muggers
Rapists
Murderers
Drug Dealers
Kiddie Diddlers
Lawyers
Polititions

But sometimes you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel and use them...
Go for it..!!
PS...
This is only my opinion,and can not be construed as legal advise..
Don't name me in your suit..

sapper740 · #9 31-10-06, 21:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Webb
There was a 4X2 version of the 60CWT, but this is exceedingly rare and had a tubular front axle, so if yous has the same as other 4X2 CMPs then you're pretty right about the carrying capacity. The gross vehicle mass though would be around 4 tons though, but the bylaw I think relates to carrying capacity - because even most SUVs would weigh in excess of 1.5 tons.

P.S. Just saw the other thread with the pic of the tubular front axle... if that's the truck you're talking about then maybe you'd better find a small axle to replace it.

As I learn more about CMP's I've realized mine has been cobbled together from at least two other CMP's. The stamping on the 3rd member and the original chassis length are 15cwt. The 36" frame member welded in appears to be taken from another 15cwt. The front axle is definitely not 15cwt and probably is from a 2 wheel drive 60cwt. I've taken a quick look for stampings in the frame rail for a number, to no avail. Can anyone provide me with as exact as possible a location for where the frame stampings should, like I mean within a few inches? There are several layers of paint to sand off and I could spend an entire weekend looking for them. Again, thanks everybody for the responses.

Vic Eaton · #10 01-11-06, 00:49

FRAME STAMP NUMBER
Do what i did my ole mate stamp you own number rub some dirt and paint in it . Over here they come and look at the number and write it down and go away what is there to check it against nothing i know of .
best of luck vic uk.

Lynn Eades · #11 01-11-06, 04:31

That was great! best laugh I've had all day..so far..
Neighbours...Living rural has to be the greatest doesn't it!!!
Sapper, I thought you Yankees lived by the freedom of choice idea? Can't you (politely)suggest to your neighbours, to grow a hedge. (or buy another house)
Immediately after you have established your legality, you might have to start restoring your C15. You could start with the incessant(but not too loud) panel beating.

Snowtractor · #12 01-11-06, 05:40

Don't sweat the weight of the truck, its the payload capacity that is 3/4 of a ton , not the truck weight. My last truck a 1995 3/4 ton Ford F-250 4X4 extended cab , made in the good old U S of A , weighed 8,800 pounds and was 19 feet long and approx. 93" to the outside of the mirrors. Now the 4 door version is even lonager and may weigh even more yet.
Incidentally my current Dodge ONE ton 4x4 4 door dually weighs in at a hefty 11,000 pounds making the US's noise abatement laws for trucks over 10,000 pounds. It is very quiet.
I know of several TEXAS trucks running around here in the oil patch and they are huge with lift kits monster tires and BANKS 6 gun units , new exhaust system and every performance bolt on there is, time is money here in oil country and speed and rough road capability is everything. Locate one of these 3/4 tons and rent it for a week. It'll dwarf the CMP and be annoying as hell to the neighbours.
Sean

alleramilitaria · #13 01-11-06, 05:54

you must be kidding.... ok go ahead and have them weigh the truck. my 05 chevy 1 ton weighs in at over 11.000 lbs (as the sticker on the door says). i dont think you are over

and if you have a problem just bring it here and park it. it will be outside but only 2 hrs away. i may be forming a arty / recon unit here in the next month, i would like to work with you in the north, the 6th abn div in auston, the 10th commando from houston and the hamshires in eastern TX. i will give everyone a web page on my web site and support the units the best i can with my shop and vehicles. are you in? give me a ring to talk about it.

thanks
dave

sapper740 · #14 01-11-06, 14:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynn Eades
That was great! best laugh I've had all day..so far..
Neighbours...Living rural has to be the greatest doesn't it!!!
Sapper, I thought you Yankees lived by the freedom of choice idea? Can't you (politely)suggest to your neighbours, to grow a hedge. (or buy another house)
Immediately after you have established your legality, you might have to start restoring your C15. You could start with the incessant(but not too loud) panel beating.

This is my first (and last!) time I will buy a house that has a Home Owners Assoc. The problem here is that a few people enjoy being a big fish in a small pond. The raison d'etre of a home owners assoc. should be to maintain the common areas and enforce architectural standards, not to impose their sensibilities on others. The people who are hassling me aren't even close...they live 2 blocks away. I get along great with my next door neighbours. I will beat these morons, that much is sure. And morons they are! The leader (a woman) of the Gang of Four as I call them once told me that she doesn't want to raise her daughter in "the kind of neighbourhood I want." I guess respect for veterans isn't universal. I like your suggestion to start panel beating...that mixed in my testing of charges for my replica 4.2" mortar should make her apoplectic!

sapper740 · #15 01-11-06, 15:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Don't sweat the weight of the truck, its the payload capacity that is 3/4 of a ton , not the truck weight. My last truck a 1995 3/4 ton Ford F-250 4X4 extended cab , made in the good old U S of A , weighed 8,800 pounds and was 19 feet long and approx. 93" to the outside of the mirrors. Now the 4 door version is even lonager and may weigh even more yet.
Incidentally my current Dodge ONE ton 4x4 4 door dually weighs in at a hefty 11,000 pounds making the US's noise abatement laws for trucks over 10,000 pounds. It is very quiet.
I know of several TEXAS trucks running around here in the oil patch and they are huge with lift kits monster tires and BANKS 6 gun units , new exhaust system and every performance bolt on there is, time is money here in oil country and speed and rough road capability is everything. Locate one of these 3/4 tons and rent it for a week. It'll dwarf the CMP and be annoying as hell to the neighbours.
Sean

I did a little research and the average payload of a 3/4 ton p.u. is 3,000 lbs. and of a 1 ton is 5,000 lbs. so if the HOA goes that route they will have to ban a lot of civilian pattern trucks in my neighbourhood. Then watch the lawsuits fly! it's unfortunate that the board of directors are basically immune from civil action. They can be sued, but the Home Owners Assoc. has to pay any awards.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #16 01-11-06, 15:12

Derrek..
An annonamous call to the authorities that she's dealing dope out of her garage every couple of weeks should cure your problems...especially if some weed baggies were found on the property....
I'll say no more,and it is ONLY my humble opinion....
More than once this method has been used to solve a problem...
And it works,believe me...
The makings of another great war story at Gracies...

alleramilitaria · #17 01-11-06, 16:22

derrek
i ran into the same problem with a home owners assn in WA. the politics got so out of hand it drove the local water company out of buisness. the end result was that we the home owners had to purchas and run the water company changing the monthly rate from just over $30.00 a month per house to over $200.00 a month and mandatory conservation for water. the kicker was that the home owners did it to themselvs by reporting EVERY precieved (none were ever proven) violation to the EPA, and health dept. property values dropped nearly 40% in a year.

dave

Snowtractor · #18 01-11-06, 17:40

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
derrek
i ran into the same problem with a home owners assn in WA. the politics got so out of hand it drove the local water company out of buisness. the end result was that we the home owners had to purchas and run the water company changing the monthly rate from just over $30.00 a month per house to over $200.00 a month and mandatory conservation for water. the kicker was that the home owners did it to themselvs by reporting EVERY precieved (none were ever proven) violation to the EPA, and health dept. property values dropped nearly 40% in a year.

dave

Had to laugh at bit at this one Dave, I work for municipal Utilities now with our primary is sewer and Water. The calls I get at 2 am in the morning becasue someones toilet is backed up and it has to be the town's fault would make you shake your head in wonder. Last weekend I had 7 call outs all all were property owners fault. So they still needed to call a plumber to fix it. So our operating costs go up and taxes or user fees have to go up , I get no sleep and I have yet to get a thankyou. But of course private companies can do it cheaper. If I did not want to see my son grow up , I would not be working for the wage I am.
Sean

sapper740 · #19 12-11-06, 22:07

I attended the Remembrance Day parade, ceremony, and show battle in Waxahachie, Tx. this weekend. Waxahachie was the setting for "Places in the Heart" with Sally Field and boasts the stately Rogers Hotel where parts of Bonnie and Clyde were filmed. As we were forming up in the town square, a stranger approached me and asked how my battle with the home owners association was going. Momentarily taken aback, I quickly realized he must be reading our posts. In fact he is an avid reader of our little forum here and he informed me that he is in the process of procuring a CMP from one of the northern states and will soon be posting threads as he restores the vehicle. One more Texas MLUer and another CMP in the Lone Star state!

Snowtractor · #20 12-11-06, 22:55

Yeah but is he willing to come over for coffee on weekends with the CMP.
Sean

David DeWeese · #21 13-11-06, 00:06

Sure.....only if his HOA is willing to put up with another of those nasty old military trucks sitting in front of his house!

Snowtractor · #22 13-11-06, 00:20

Quote:

Originally posted by David DeWeese
Sure.....only if his HOA is willing to put up with another of those nasty old military trucks sitting in front of his house!

Thats the whole idea, if they don't shut up and play nice meetings of the Texas Military Vehicle Owners Assn. may have to take place every weekend at Sappers place.

Sean

Vic Eaton · #23 13-11-06, 21:29

Well i have always thought TEXAS was so big that people hardly ever saw one another and here we are talking about difficult neighbours i could understand it here in the uk where we are crammed in like tined beans but not TEXAS surley not. i dont believe it . regards to you all vic uk.

#24 13-11-06, 23:23

Quote:

Originally posted by victor eaton
Well i have always thought TEXAS was so big that people hardly ever saw one another

Yes. . . . . .3.1 times the size of Great Britain and that includes N.Ireland, Shetland and the Hebrides; we're a little smaller than Oregon.

Quote:

and here we are talking about difficult neighbours i could understand it here in the uk where we are crammed in like tined beans but not TEXAS surley not. i dont believe it

Indeed so, Texas population is about 21 million and about 76.1 people per square mile; we have 1000/mile².

Incidentally Derek, the 15cwt (1680lb) would refer to the old British ton of 2240lbs and for what its worth a recently weighed F15 with its Polsten gun tipped the scales at 3.3 metric tons ~ 7260lb.

R.

alleramilitaria · #25 14-11-06, 00:15

deerek
nice undies last weekend

the truck looked great, i thought you were going to fire some rounds???

i was having a lot of fun finaly with a crew to help with the carrier. when the battle was over i did a pivit and nearly freaked out. i slid about 2 feet to the side and thought i had thrown a track. problem was that i was right on top of a rail track and that let me slide. dont want to do that again.

glad to see you there.

by the way was that a late war champ??????

dave

Hanno Spoelstra · #26 14-11-06, 00:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Notton
Indeed so, Texas population is about 21 million and about 76.1 people per square mile; we have 1000/mile².

Pfff - mid 2004 we had a population of 16,318,199 on an area of 41,526 km²; this means a population density of 393/km², or 482/km² if only the land area, 33,883 km² (one quarter of which is below sea level), is counted.

Now where does he leave his CMP truck, I hear you asking?!?!

H.

alleramilitaria · #27 14-11-06, 01:17

hey derrek check out this web site and let me know what else you want listed. contact info photos, etc.
dave
http://alleramilitaria.ieasysite.com/aweb_site_002.htm

sapper740 · #28 15-11-06, 02:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Yeah but is he willing to come over for coffee on weekends with the CMP.
Sean

That's beer, is he willing to come over for beer! And yes, I plan to invite him over on a regular basis to really piss off the Gang of Four!

Thanks all for your comments and support. The showdown in the CMP corral is tomorrow night at 1900hrs Central time. I'll post the results as soon as I get home. Know what would be really cool?...having about 20 M.V.'s circling the block while the meeting is going on!

CHIMO!

sapper740 · #29 15-11-06, 02:39

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
deerek
nice undies last weekend
the truck looked great, i thought you were going to fire some rounds???

i was having a lot of fun finaly with a crew to help with the carrier. when the battle was over i did a pivit and nearly freaked out. i slid about 2 feet to the side and thought i had thrown a track. problem was that i was right on top of a rail track and that let me slide. dont want to do that again.

glad to see you there.

by the way was that a late war champ??????

dave

Nein, it was an early '50's Champ. Andy, the owner was Military Police in the Rhodesian Army. Talked to him at length about it and the weaponry onboard...catch the full auto Inglis Mk I?

P.S. you dee-deed so fast you forgot to get your mine probe. Now its mine probe

sapper740 · #30 15-11-06, 02:42

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
deerek
nice undies last weekend
the truck looked great, i thought you were going to fire some rounds???

dave

I was hung over and looking for a place to relieve myself when you happened by.
The battle progressed so fast that I would have been firing on my own troops. I did, however get to throw some of my grenades. They worked fabulously!