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02-08-06, 12:24
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Canada in Afghanistan
Here is a copy of an e-mail written by a FOO in Afghanistan, which was forwarded to my son yesterday. Looks like our troops once more had to pull British chestnuts out of the fire. Nothing new about that.
Sent by an artillery officer in Afghanistan Sat, 29 Jul 2006 BATTLE OF PANJAWAI AND BEYOND Hey everybody! First off I apologize for the length of this email, as it contains two weeks worth of Afghanistan fun. I am doing well and brutally honest I have enjoyed this last couple of weeks. Seven years of training culminating in 14 action packed days. At first I wasn't going to write a lot of detail about what happened, because some people might find it upsetting. However, when I got back to Kandahar Air Field (KAF) and read the deplorable media coverage that the largest operation Canadians have been involved in since Korea, I really felt I had to write it all down, to give you all (and hopefully everyone you talk to back in Canada) an appreciation for what we are really doing here in this "state of armed conflict" (lawyers say we can't use the word "war", I don't know what the difference is except for it being far more politically correct.) We received word while down at our Forward Operating Base (FOB) that we were going to be part of a full out three day (HA HA) Battle Group operation. This was going to be the largest operation Canada had undertaken since the Korean War. When we arrived back in KAF for orders we found out that we were rolling for Pashmul in the Panjawai District of Kandahar province. That was hard for my crew to hear, as that was the same town where Nichola had died and where Bombadier Chris Gauthier (a signaler in the party before I arrived) had been injured in an ambush. Participating in this attack were A, B and C Company (Coy.) Groups, both troops of artillery from A Battery, an Engineer squadron, two Companies of Afghan National Army (plus all of their attached American Embedded Training Teams - ETT), as well as a huge lineup of American and British Fixed and Rotary wing aircraft. Additionally, we had elements of the 2/87 US Infantry and 3 Para from the UK conducting blocks to prevent the enemy from escaping. From an Artillery perspective beyond the two gun troops (each equipped with 2 x155mm Howitzers and 4 x 81mm mortars) we had three Forward Observation Officers (FOO) and their parties as well as the Battery Commander and his party going in on the attack. On the night of the 7th around 2200 hrs local C Company Group (with yours truly attached as their FOO) rolled for Pashmul. As we arrived closer to the objective area we saw the women and children pouring out of the town. Not a good sign. We pushed on and about 3 km from our intended Line of Departure to start the operation we were ambushed by Taliban fighters. At around 0030hrs I had my head out of the turret crew commanding my LAV with my night vision monocular on. Two RPG rounds thundered into the ground about 75m from my LAV. For about half a second I stared at them and thought, "huh, so that's what an RPG looks like." The sound of AK 7.62mm fire cracking all around the convoy snapped me back to reality and I quickly got down in the turret and we immediately began scanning for the enemy. They were on both sides of us adding to the "fog of war". We eventually figured out where all of our friendlies were, and where to begin engaging. We let off about 20 rounds of Frangible 25mm from our cannon at guys about a 100m away before we got a major jam in our link ejection chute. We went to our 7.62 coax machine gun, and fired one round before it too jammed!! Boy was I pissed off. I went to jump up on the pintol mounted machine gun, but as I stuck my head out of the LAV I realized the bad guys were still shooting at us and that the Canadian Engineers were firing High Explosive Incendiary 25mm rounds from their cannon right over our front deck. I quickly popped back down realizing that was probably one of the stupider ideas I have ever had in my life J. Eventually after much cursing and beating the crap out of the link ejection chute with any blunt instrument we could find in the turret, we were back in the game. The first Troops in Contact (TIC) lasted about two hours. The radio nets were busier than I had ever heard before and we realized that A and B Coys. as well as Reconnaissance Platoon had all been hit simultaneously, showing a degree of coordination not seen before in Afghanistan. The feeling amongst the Company was that was probably it, as the enemy usually just conducted hit and run attacks. Boy, were we wrong! We continued to roll towards our Line of Departure and not five minutes later as we rolled around a corner, I saw B Coy. on our left flank get hit with a volley of about 20 RPGs all bursting in the air over the LAVs. It was an unreal scene to describe. There was no doubt now that we were in a big fight. We pushed into the town following the Company Commander behind the lead Platoon. This was not LAV friendly country. The entire area was covered in Grape fields, which due to the way they grow them are not passable to LAVs, and acres of Marijuana fields which due to irrigation caused the LAVs to get stuck. The streets were lined with mud compounds and mud walls just barely wide enough to get our cars through. After traveling about 300m our lead platoon came under attack from a grape drying hut in the middle of what can only be described as an urban built up area. The Company Commander then issued a quick set of frag orders and I was about to participate in my first ever Company attack. He signaled for me to dismount and follow him. It was an uncomfortable feeling dismounting from the turret, as the only way out is through the top of the turret. I was standing probably 15 feet high in the air with friendly and hostile rounds snapping and cracking in the air everywhere. Needless to say I got down quick. I went to the back of my LAV and banged on the door to signal we were dismounting. As the Master Bombardier opened the door he went pale as we were only 20m from where they had previously been ambushed and where Nich had died. Regardless, we soldiered on. We grabbed our radios and followed the Company Commander. We went into a compound that was actually the same one Howie Nelson had dropped a 1,000lb bomb on after the attack in May. We went up to a second story ledge on a mud wall, and the Company Commander pointed out a compound and said "can you hit that?" I lased the building and found out it was only 89m away. Back in Canada we never bring Artillery in much closer than a 1000m, so you can imagine what I was thinking. I sat down and did the math (those of you who know my mathematical skills are probably cringing right now!). I looked at him and said that in theory and mathematically we would be okay where we were, but I made him move one of the other Platoons back 150m. A funny story as I was doing the math, an American ETT Captain working with the ANA looked down at me and said "There are no ANA forward of us" I responded "Roger", to which he said "good" fired three rounds and said "Got him". I then realized that he had asked me a question and had not stated a fact (for some reason everyone seems to think that the FOO magically knows where all the friendlies are). Through all the gunfire I had missed the infliction in his voice. I looked at him and said, "Hey, I have no idea where your ANA are, you're supposed to look after them!" Luckily it wasn't a friendly he had shot at. We started the Fire Mission with the first round landing about 350m from my position. The noise of Artillery whistling that close and exploding was almost deafening, the FOO course sure hadn't prepared me for this! Master Bombardier and I debated the correction for a second and eventually agreed upon a Drop 200m, mostly because we needed to get rounds on that compound ASAP as we were taking heavy fire. The round came in and landed a bit left of the compound. We lased the impact and found out it was 105m from us. We gave a small correction and went into Fire For Effect with 50% Ground Burst and 50% Air Burst. The rounds came in 85m from us, right on the compound. Truly I did not appreciate the sheer frightening and awe-inspiring nature of proximity (the air burst rounds). I then had the worst moment of my military career as one of the Sections began shouting "Check Fire, Check Fire!" on the net, followed quickly by their Platoon Commander saying they had casualties and to prepare for a 9 Line (air medical evacuation request). It turned out the two events were unrelated but for a while I thought I had injured or even worse killed a Canadian. In actuality the Section that called Check Firing was actually the furthest of anyone in the Company from the shells and had panicked (which led to a lot of ribbing and jokes from their buddies afterwards who had all been closer). The 9 Line was for an ANA soldier who had been struck 5 minutes before. However unfortunate, I was definitely relieved to here all that. Day one carried on with several more small skirmishes and me moving from compound to compound to set up Observation Posts (OPs), from which I could support the Company's movement. I never thought that in my career I would literally be kicking in doors and leading a three man stack, clearing room after room to get to my OPs. We ended the day, which had seen us in contact for 12 straight hours, by sleeping beside our vehicle in full battle rattle for about an hour with sand fleas biting us. They are the single most ignorant and annoying bug ever. The next morning started off with what seemed like a benign task. We were to clear the grape fields to the south of our objective area. Intelligence said there was nobody there and this would only take us a couple of hours. About an hour into the clearing operation we came under contact from a heavily fortified compound. Unfortunately we had a young fellow killed early in the engagement when the infantry tried to storm the compound. They met fierce resistance, far greater than expected. (I didn't know the young soldier personally, but do recall thinking how fearless he was a week earlier when I saw him running around the Brit compound with a Portuguese flag right after England had lost in the World Cup. I was impressed by his peers and friends and how professionally they carried on after his death.) After the attempted storming of the compound, the Company Commander came to me and said "right, we tried that the old fashioned way, now I want you to level that compound." As I was coming up with a plan for how I would do this, we had a call sign I had never heard before check in. It was Mobway 51. Ends up he was a Predator Unmanned Aerial Vehicle armed with a hellfire missile. I don't know how he knew we needed help or what frequency we were using, and frankly I don't care, he was a blessing. When the Company Commander asked me what the safety distance for a hellfire was I literally had to go to the reference manual I carry (J Fires Manual) because I had never seen one before and had no idea what it actually could do. I told him the safety distance was 100m. To which he asked how far we were from the compound - the laser said 82m. We debated the ballistic strength of the mud wall beside us and in the end he decided to risk it. Nothing like seeing an entire Company in the fetal position pressed up against a mud wall! The hellfire came in and it was the loudest thing I have ever heard. Three distinct noises: the missile firing, it coming over our heads and the boom. For about 30 seconds we couldn't see anything but a cloud of dust. Then when the dust settled the Platoons started hooting and hollering. The compound barely even looked the same. (At this point our embedded journalist Christie Blanchford from the Globe and Mail had enough and left us, can't blame her I guess.) The Company again tried to clear the compound but still met resistance. So we lobbed in 18 artillery shells 82m from us (even closer than the day before) and then brought in two Apache Attack Helicopters. On the second rocket attack (I actually have video of this) the pilot hit the target with his first rocket and the second one went long and landed just on the other side of the mud wall from us. It engulfed us in rocket exhaust, but thankfully no one was hurt. When the hellfire had gone off it had started a small building in the compound on fire and suddenly we started getting secondary explosions off of a weapons cache that was in it. Everything started exploding around us, and the two guys that had not listened to me to press up against the wall got hit with shrapnel, both in the legs. One was the Company Commander's Signaler, a crazy Newf, who was cracking jokes even with shrapnel in his leg. The medic dealt with him and I went over to the American ETT Captain who was only a few feet from me and began doing first aid on him. He looked liked he was going into shock, until his American Sergeant came up behind me and said "Shit Sir, that's barely worth wearing a Purple Heart for!" I was surprised how much first aid I actually remembered, and the only difficult part was trying to cut off his pant leg because American combats are designed not to tear, making them particularly difficult to cut! In the end we took the compound and captured a high level Taliban leader who was found by the infantry hiding in a sewage culvert, begging for the shelling to stop. As well, we found a major weapons cache, which the engineers took great delight in blowing up. Unfortunately the assault had cost us one killed, two wounded, a Section commander had blown his knee throwing a grenade and four guys had gone down to extreme heat exhaustion. We found out though that this was a Taliban and Al Qaeda hot bed and that they had been reinforced by Chechen and Tajik fighters (which I guess means we really got a chance to take on Al Qaeda and not just the Taliban). Day three was uneventful for C Coy. and we prepared to go back to our FOB. Which would have been good because I had come down with a cold. Not what I needed in combat (umm, I mean state of armed conflict!) Unfortunately that was not to be. A British Company from 3 Para had been isolated and surrounded by Taliban in the Helmand Province in the Sangin District Center. They were running out of food and were down to boiling river water. They had tried to air drop supplies but they ended up landing in a Taliban stronghold (thank you air force). C Coy. was tasked to conduct an immediate emergency resupply with our LAVs. We headed off to what can only be described as the Wild West. The Company (B Coy) of the Paras that was holding the District Center had lost four soldiers there and was being attacked 3 to 5 times a day. We rolled in there after a long and painful road move across the desert. When we arrived in Sangin the locals began throwing rocks and anything they could at us, this was not a friendly place. We pushed into the District Center, and during the last few hundred meters we began receiving mortar fire. They never taught me on my LAV Crew Commander course how to command a vehicle with all the hatches closed using periscopes in an urban environment. I truly did it by sense of touch, meaning as we hit the wall to the left I would tell the driver to turn a little right!! We resupplied the Brits and unfortunately it turned dark and we couldn't get out of there, so we had to spend the night. We were attacked with small arms RPGs and mortars three times that night, I still can't believe that the Brits have spent over a month living there under those conditions. They are a proud unit and they were grateful but embarrassed that we had to come save the day. And as good Canadians we didn't let them hear the end of being rescued by a bunch of colonials!! We left Sangin again thinking we were headed home. We made it about 40km before we were called back to reinforce the District Center and help secure a helicopter landing site. As we sat there we received orders that we were now cut to the control of 3 Para for their upcoming operation north of Sangin. This was turning out to be the longest three day operation ever!!! Enroute we were engaged by an 82mm mortar from across a valley. I engaged them with our artillery, it felt a lot more like shooting in Shilo as they were 2.8km away as opposed to the 100m or less my previous engagements had been. We went round for round with them in what Rob, the Troop Commander firing the guns for us, called an indirect fire duel. In the end he said the score was Andrew 1 Taliban O and there is no worry of that mortar ever firing again. We rode all through the night (with my LAV on a flat tire) and arrived right as the Paras Air Assaulted onto the objective with Chinook helicopters. There were helicopters everywhere. It was a hot landing zone and they took intense fire until we arrived with LAVs, and the enemy ran away. It was a different operation as we were used to a lot more intimate support tanks to shoot the Paras in. It was impressive to watch them though, they are unbelievable soldiers. We left the operation about 25 hours later (still3 going on no sleep) and thought that for sure we were now done this "three day op". But as we were withdrawing to secure the landing zone for the Brits (under fire from 107mm rockets and 82mm mortars) we received Frag orders to conduct a sensitive sight exploitation where the Division had just dropped two 1000lbs bombs. Good old C Coy. leading the charge again! We drove to the sight and saw nothing but women and children fleeing the town. I thought, "here we go again." Luckily this time I found a good position for observation with my LAV and did not have to go in on the attack. The Company quickly came under attack from what was later estimated as 100+ fighters. For about 15 minutes we lost communications with the Company Commander and a whole Section of infantry as they were basically overrun. The Section had last been seen going into a ditch that was subsequently hit with a volley of about 15 RPGs; I thought we had lost them all. I had Brit Apaches check in and they did an absolutely brilliant job at repelling the enemy. The only problem was I couldn't understand a word the pilot was saying because of his accent! Luckily I had the Brit Liaison Officer riding in the back of my LAV. I ended up using him (a Major) as a very highly paid interpreter to help me out. After about an hour long fight the Company broke contact (but lived up to the nickname the soldiers had given us, "Contact C") and we leveled several compounds with artillery. Somehow we escaped without a scratch, truly amazing. We were again ordered back to the Sangin District Center with 3 Para and spent the next few days fighting with the Paras. For four days I did not get a chance to take off my Frag vest, helmet or change my socks, etc. We were attacked 2-3 times a day, and always repelled them decisively. I also discovered during this period that exchanging rations with the Brits is a really bad idea. Not only were they stuck in this miserable place but their food was absolutely horrible! After saying our good byes to our Brit comrades (the enemy learnt their lesson and finally stopped attacking the place), we again prepared to go back home. Alas, it was not to be again. We were ordered South to take back to towns that the Taliban had just taken. Luckily this time after 11 straight days in contact, C Coy. was the Battle Group reserve. We headed to the British Provincial Reconstruction team (PRT). We rolled into the town to the strangest arrival yet. This was coalition country. The locals (unlike Kandahar and even more so in Sangin) were excited and happy to see us. We had kids offering us candy and water instead of begging. There were no Burkhas. The women were in colorful gowns with their faces exposed. The town was booming with shops everywhere and industry flourishing. We went to the PRT and it didn't even seem real. I took off my helmet, Flak vest and I had a shower and changed my clothes for the first time in two weeks. I ate a huge fresh meal (until my stomach hurt), and then went and sat on the edge of a water fountain in garden and watched a beach volleyball game between the Brits and Estonians. I laughed as I had supper and watched the BBC (British Broadcasting Company) which was reporting that we had taken back the towns, but H Hour was still 2 hours away, so much for the element of surprise. After what we had been through it was hard to believe this place was in the same country. I slept that night (still on the ground beside my LAV because they did not have enough rooms) better than I think I have before in my life. The next couple of days were quiet for us as they did not need to commit us as the reserve. On day 14 of our 3 day op we conducted the 10 hour road move back to KAF, literally limping back as our cars were so beat up (mine was in the best shape in the entire Company and we had a broken differential . again). There are more stories I could tell of these last two weeks but this email has become long enough as it is and if I did that I would have no war stories (I mean state of armed conflict stories) to tell you when I get home. I will end by saying that I have truly enjoyed this experience. Combat is the ultimate test of an officer, and on several occasions I did things that I didn't know I was capable of. I am so proud of my crew and the entire Company Group, we soldiered hard and long and showed the enemy that messing with Canadians is a really bad idea. We accomplished something in the last two weeks that Canadian soldiers have not done since Korea. The Afghan Government, elected by the Afghans, requested our assistance and we were able to help. We were the equal, if not superior of our allies in everything we did. I hope that I gave you all an appreciation of what these young brave men and women are doing over here, and even if the media can't find the time or effort to report what we are doing and the difference we are making, hopefully you can pass it on. I will see all of you real soon. I hope all is well with all of you, and please keep the emails coming, I read every one and enjoy hearing from you, even if I cannot respond individually. http://www.beloblog.com/KGW_Blogs/afghanistan/ 
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#2
25-08-06, 00:21
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Leopards to Afghanistan?
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WW2 Canadian Army Vehicle Camouflage and Markings http://milifax2003.tripod.com/home03.htm
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#3
25-08-06, 03:15
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i was in iraq, and trust me the attacks really drop off when you have a 60 ton paper weight at the front gate. 7.62mm just dosent do it
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44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw 44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR 41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C 42 6LB GUN and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
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#4
25-08-06, 04:17
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During my last tour in Bosnia back in 2001, we were deployed to the rifle ranges in Glumoc and that all too familiar freight train rumble approached. Out of the blue, a Canadian Leopard raced by, escorted by a couple of wheeled vehicles. Turns out we were using a couple of them in Kosovo as muscle.
I had more to say on the story presented, but have decided to wait and see.
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#5
25-08-06, 07:28
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Re: Leopards to Afghanistan?
Quote:
 CHIMO!
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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#6
10-09-06, 03:03
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Well, the cats out of the bag now....the Leos are heading to Afghanistan. I kind of thought so since the newspaper article quoted the army as saying the leopards were heading for a fall ex in Wainwright....the fall ex for the Brigade is here in Shilo. In fact it's going on right now, and judging from the amount of smoke from the range fires today, they seem to be having a good time.
They may be a bit dated, but they sure beat a G-wagon for protection.
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#7
15-09-06, 22:20
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DND just announced
A troop of four leopards to be flown to Afghanistan next week,with a balance of eleven to follow.
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#8
16-09-06, 00:01
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Tanks and 200 more soldiers going to Afghanistan
Updated Fri. Sep. 15 2006 3:14 PM ET David Akin, CTV.ca News OTTAWA -- Canada will send tanks and about 200 more soldiers to bolster its presence in southern Afghanistan, an initiative which the military described as "a normal practice" for the kind of situation Canadian soldiers are now facing there. General Rick Hillier, chief of Canada's defence staff, announced this afternoon that the Forces are strengthening reconstruction and stabilization efforts in Afghanistan. After getting final approval from Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Hillier has decided to send the following immediately to Afghanistan: An infantry company from Valcartier, Quebec A Leopard tank squadron from Edmonton to better protect and enable the Canadian Forces to fight in those areas where Taliban forces have established well-coordinated and determined defences; Military engineers to manage reconstruction and development projects and, A counter-mortar capability to locate Taliban forces that are targeting Canadian Forces installations with indirect mortar fire. The reinforcements are being sent at the request of the Canadian commanders in Afghanistan. Once the additional forces are in Afghanistan, Canada will have about 2,500 troops in the region. Canadian troops will make up well over 10 per cent of all NATO troops in Afghanistan. "Canadian soldiers face a complex and very demanding mission in Afghanistan," the Department of National Defence says in a statement. "The situation on the ground in Afghanistan recently shifted due to the changing tactics of the Taliban operating in the southern region, where Canadian and NATO troops are seeking to stabilize areas. "Increased capabilities are needed to provide Task Force Afghanistan Commanders with the most effective tools they required to give them more options in the field of operations. These resources provide greater mobility, protection of our troops, flexibility and precision firepower." http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories
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#9
16-09-06, 05:36
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Apparently C battery here in Shilo is now preparing to head over. They are the mortar battery, and are to go over in that role. Canada cut back on artillery in the last couple of years, and the mortar role was given back to the gunners from the infantry.
And that big brigade ex here has now been quashed; the neccessary elements are heading to Wainwright for training alongside the tankers. I've been watching convoys come in for the last week or so; some interesting equipment was still heading past the house today for Shilo. Just in time to turn around and head home. I saw someones phrase once: It's easier to react than plan ahead. This should be the motto for the CF. Not entirely their fault; you can only do so much when un-supportive governments choke you both financially and militarily. The liberals idea of a multi-faceted military is one that can both fight forest fires and look for lost children.
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#10
03-10-06, 22:32
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Canada in Afghanistan
Thought I'd start this up as a catch-all thread in support of our soldiers.
Watching CTV Newsnet at 1600 LOCAL today, I saw footage of the first of our Leopards deplaning in Kandahar. This will be interesting - it'll be the first time they've been deployed for peacemaking rather than peacekeeping...
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#11
03-10-06, 23:12
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Re: Canada in Afghanistan
Quote:
Here is a release 4 hours old... SPERWAN, Afghanistan — Canadian soldiers faced a series of attacks Tuesday in the volatile region west of Kandahar. Insurgents have staged attacks including ambushes, rocket attacks and a suicide bombing. No injuries were immediately reported in the incidents. A G-Wagon jeep was left in flames after a suicide bomber on a motorcycle attacked a Canadian military convoy in on the western side of Kandahar city. Maj. Daryl Morrell, a NATO-led force spokesman, said the bomber rammed his motorcycle into the convoy, killing himself in the blast. “I was sitting outside my shop,” said a witness, Ali Ahmad. “I saw a motorbike come close to the Canadian convoy and then detonated himself.” In an earlier attack, a Canadian patrol came under heavy fire along the Arghandab River, just southwest of the scene of heavy fighting in September. The soldiers of Charles Company returned fire and returned to a makeshift base nearby. Charles Company lost four soldiers exactly a month ago in an ambush a few kilometres away. The next day, the same company lost another soldier to friendly fire by U.S. warplanes. Elsewhere, two U.S. and one Afghan soldier died Monday evening during a gunfight with militants in eastern Kunar province, which borders Pakistan, the U.S. military said in a statement. Three U.S. soldiers were wounded in the battle in Pech district, although they were now in stable condition, it said. About 7,000 Afghan and U.S. troops are operating in eastern Afghanistan as part of Operation Mountain Fury, aimed at wiping out militants and extending the Afghan government’s reach. Separately, three Afghan border police were killed and three wounded late Monday after Taliban fighters attacked their outpost near the border in the eastern province of Paktika, said provincial Gov. Mohammad Akram Akhpelwak. Meanwhile, NATO said it will take over the command of military operations for all of Afghanistan from the U.S.-led coalition on Thursday. The announcement was made by Daan Everts, the alliance’s senior civilian representative in Afghanistan. Of the 40,000 foreign troops in Afghanistan, about 8,000 U.S. troops tracking al-Qaida terrorists or involved in air operations will remain outside NATO’s control, officials said. Canada has about 2,200 soldiers operating in Kandahar province as part of the NATO force. NATO’s twin roles of combating the growing violence and attempting to extend the reach of the Afghan government are among the most challenging missions the alliance has undertaken in its 57-year history. Afghanistan in the last several months has seen the largest increase in violence since the U.S.-led invasion ousted the Taliban regime from power in 2001. A suicide bomber in the capital, Kabul, killed 12 people and wounded more than 40 on Saturday.
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#12
03-10-06, 23:20
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Taliban Jack...
Taliban Jack is mulling over a trip to Afghanistan...
I hope he does go and meet up with those lovey-dovey Taliban critters...His yellow,running dog head would look in place on the end of a Taliban stick... Layton mulls trip to Afghanistan View Larger Image "I don't think credibility on the question of whether the mission is working depends on whether a person has the opportunity to be there," said Jack Layton, who's mulling a trip to Afghanistan. Photograph by : CP Photo Ian Bailey, CanWest News Service Published: Sunday, October 01, 2006 Article tools Printer friendly VANCOUVER -- Federal NDP Leader Jack Layton, who wants Canada to pull its troops from Afghanistan, says he wants to visit the war-torn country to get a sense of the situation there. But Layton told The Province during a trip to Vancouver that he does not need to have been to Afghanistan to be a credible critic of Canada's role there. "I don't think credibility on the question of whether the mission is working depends on whether a person has the opportunity to be there," Layton said. "If that was the case, then most Canadians would have to be absent themselves for the debate, and I don't accept that proposition." Two of four federal party leaders in the House of Commons have been to Afghanistan where 2,200 Canadian soldiers are posted. Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been. Bill Graham, interim leader for the Liberals, went twice while foreign affairs and defence minister in the former Liberal government. Layton and Gilles Duceppe, leader of the Bloc Quebecois, have yet to visit. Layton has called for Canadian troops to leave Afghanistan by next February, slamming the mission there as improperly planned to achieve peace. The position, strongly endorsed by rank-and-file NDP members at the party's national convention early in September, has put the New Democrats odds with the other three parties in Parliament. Thirty-seven soldiers and one Canadian diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002 the latest being Pte. Josh Klukie, from an Ontario-based regiment killed by an explosive device Friday while on patrol near Kandahar. Canada has been involved in reconstruction in Afghanistan and battling remnants of the Taliban and al-Qaida. Layton said he was invited to Afghanistan by that country's president, Hamid Karzai, when the pair met during Karzai's recent trip to Canada. "The timing of such a visit is something I'd like to discuss further with the Afghanistan officials and, of course, with our own Foreign Affairs officials here," he said. Layton said, at this point, his office was working through logistics on the issue, but that he would, among other things, like to talk to elected officials in the country, aid groups, and Canadian troops. Asked whether he was concerned about his own security, he replied: "Not any more than anybody else would be." Layton has condemned the effort as a "George Bush-style counter-insurgency war" and called on Canada to pursue humanitarian aid, reconstruction and peace. He called on Canada to declare it won't abandon Afghanistan, but will stop what isn't working. "The goal of trying to help resolve conflicts in other than war fighting approaches is, I think, a uniquely Canadian goal in the world," he said. ibailey@png.canwest.com © CanWest News Service 2006
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#13
04-10-06, 02:10
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Two Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan
Updated Tue. Oct. 3 2006 7:42 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff Taliban insurgents killed two Canadian soldiers and injured another five during an attack in the Panjwaii district of Afghanistan, Canadian military officials have confirmed. "Two Canadian soldiers have died as a result of injuries suffered during this attack and five others received non-life threatening injuries," Col. Fred Lewis, deputy commander of Task force Afghanistan, said Tuesday. Sergeant Craig Gillam and Corporal Robert Mitchell were identified as the two soldiers killed. Both were with the Royal Canadian Dragoons, based in Petawawa, Ont. They are the 38th and 39th Canadian soldiers to die in Afghanistan since 2002. The soldiers were working to clear a route for a future road construction project when the attack occurred around 4:50 p.m. local time. "They were members of the surveillance troops," said Lewis. "They were conducting vehicle checkpoints and observation posts at the time." The patrol managed to return fire after coming under sustained fire from mortars and possibly rocket propelled grenades. The injured soldiers were evacuated to an alliance medical facility at the Kandahar airfield. The attack took place about 20 kilometres west of Kandahar City, an area that Canadians troops took from the Taliban just weeks ago. Lewis said the violence was expected as Operation Medusa -- the Canadian-led NATO operation that officials claimed as a major success -- was in its final stage. "This final phase is the one that the Taliban don't want to lose," said Lewis. "We're in reconstruction and development and we've got to remain vigilant to the Taliban re-infiltrating in the area." "The Taliban attacks will not deter Canadian efforts to help this country achieve peace and stability and a free and democratic society." The fighting comes on a day soldiers faced a series of insurgent attacks, including ambushes, rocket fire and a suicide bombing. A Canadian patrol came under heavy fire along the Arghandab River, just southwest of the scene of heavy fighting in September. Later in the day, a bomber on a motorcycle attacked a Canadian military convoy in the volatile region west of Kandahar, ramming his vehicle into a G-Wagon. No Canadian casualties were reported in that attack, although three Afghanistan civilians were hurt. The attacks come on the day the body of Pte. Josh Klukie, 23, killed four days ago after stepping on a booby-trapped anti-tank mine, returned home from Afghanistan to CFB Trenton for a repatriation ceremony. The Thunder Bay, Ont. native served with Bravo Company of the First Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment. Reinforcements To deal with the ongoing violence, extra vehicles and firepower have begun to arrive in Kandahar for the Canadian forces. The first of 15 heavily-armoured Leopard tanks arrived aboard a U.S. military transport aircraft. Lewis told Canada AM earlier Tuesday that the deployment of the vehicles gives NATO forces a "direct fire capability" in areas of southern Afghanistan where Canadians encountered fierce insurgent resistance during Operation Medusa. Further, he said a dozen military engineers arrived last week to perform project management and delivery tasks. Arrangements are also being made to send another 21 Nyalas -- four-wheel-drive vehicles designed to withstand blasts from anti-tank mines -- to Afghanistan. NATO command to expand Meanwhile, NATO announced Tuesday that it will assume responsibility for security across Afghanistan beginning Thursday, when it takes over command in the east. "In two days, on October 5, NATO security assistance will be expanded to all of Afghanistan," NATO's senior civilian representative, Daan Everts, told a news conference. "And most of the U.S. forces that are still operating on their own command right now in the east will join the overall ISAF organization." NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) already commands forces in the north, west and south, as well as in the capital of Kabul. At the end of July, the alliance took responsibility for southern Afghanistan -- where Canadian and British troops in particular have come up against fierce insurgent resistance -- from the U.S.-led coalition. On Thursday, NATO takes command of 10,000-12,000 U.S. troops in the east. The troop transfer was expected to take place later this year. But alliance officials said battles with insurgents in the south required the pooling of Canadian, British and Dutch forces with U.S. soldiers. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories
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#14
04-10-06, 02:23
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Update on John's article...
Insurgents kill 2 Canadians
Oct. 3, 2006. 07:47 PM CANADIAN PRESS SPERWAN, Afghanistan — Emboldened insurgents killed two Canadian soldiers and wounded five others Tuesday in a series of attacks on ground the Canadians took from the Taliban just weeks ago. The soldiers were providing security for road construction and holding an observation post in the Taliban heartland about 20 kilometres west of Kandahar city when they came under attack from insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles in the late afternoon. Canadian military officials identified the dead as Sgt. Craig Paul Gillam and Cpl. Robert Thomas James Mitchell, both members of the Royal Canadian Dragoons based in Petawawa, Ont. “They were members of the surveillance troops,” Col. Fred Lewis, deputy commander of the Canadian contingent, told reporters in Kandahar. “They were conducting vehicle checkpoints and observation posts at the time.” Two of the wounded soldiers were reported in serious but stable condition. All were evacuated to Kandahar Airfield, the main coalition base, and described as having “non-life-threatening injuries.” Lewis said the casualties were probably caused by mortars or rocket-propelled grenades. “The injuries right now: there don’t seem to be any sort of bullets involved,” he said. But the attack happened shortly before dark, so further checks at the site will have to wait until Wednesday, he said. The attack on the small group of soldiers prompted a quick response. “Almost immediately other forces responded to it, treated and medevaced the casualties, and carried on with the operation,” said Lt.-Col. Omer Lavoie, the ground-level commander of Canada’s fighting force. Two U.S. soldiers were also wounded nearby. It was not clear whether they were hit by the same group of insurgents or in a separate ambush. The fighting comes exactly one month after the launch of Operation Medusa, the NATO operation led by Canadian troops that officials boasted killed hundreds of Taliban. NATO and Canadian officials said they had driven insurgents out of the area west of Kandahar city and had done serious damage to the ability of the insurgents to mount attacks. Lavoie said the latest attacks are a shift back to familiar insurgent tactics after the Taliban were devastated in a more conventional fight. “They’ve learned they can’t take us on head-to-head in a conventional battle, so they’re going back to typical insurgent tactics, (roadside bombs) and hit-and-run tactics,” Lavoie said. The attack on the observation post was the last in a series aimed at Canadians on Tuesday. The soldiers of Charles Company were the first to come under fire in the morning as they pushed along the Arghandab River, a few kilometres west of the deadly attack that would come hours later. Insurgents fired mortars, rockets and automatic weapons at Seven Platoon of Charles Company, the unit that was hit with a deadly ambush Sept. 3. The soldiers and their Afghan army counterparts returned fire and emerged unscathed. “Luckily, they’re not very good aim,” said Warrant Officer Ray Macfarlane, a senior platoon leader. Closer to Kandahar city and a few hours later, a suicide bomber on a motorcycle attacked a Canadian convoy, setting a G-wagon jeep aflame. The suicide bomber died; no one else was injured. Local civilians and soldiers have said Taliban have quietly seeped back into the area. “The Taliban has threatened (civilians) with their lives from any kind of association with the coalition,” said Maj. Steve Brown, commander of Charles Company. “They’ve gone back to the tactic that has consistently worked for them, that is to infiltrate and conduct guerrilla-type operations. Now they’re back at it threatening people and their property. That’s consistent with this enemy.” Macfarlane said he saw unarmed young men whom he suspected were insurgents as his troops and Afghan Army units moved along the river. As they returned toward their camp, the shooting started. The insurgents have learned how to exploit the Canadians’ rules of engagement to escape attack, Macfarlane said. Those rules cannot be disclosed under the embedding agreement that allows The Canadian Press to travel with Canadian soldiers on their missions. “They’re smart. I wouldn’t say I respect them, but they’ve learned to play to our weaknesses,” Macfarlane said. Two suspected Taliban members were detained in the morning clash. A Canadian soldier died last week in a mine explosion on a road that the Canadians have cut through fields to avoid such attacks. The soldiers killed Tuesday were protecting a similar road-building project aimed at avoiding improvised explosive devices — roadside bombs. The spate of violence came on Oct. 3, a day of the month that has proved deadly for Canadians recently. On Sept. 3, the Taliban ambushed Macfarlane’s Seven Platoon, killing four soldiers and wounding several more. The next day, the company was accidentally strafed by a U.S. warplane, killing another soldier and wounding more than 30. On Aug. 3, four soldiers of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry died nearby in a roadside bomb and firefight. The foiled rebel ambush Tuesday in the rocky, dry river bed of the Arghandab River was a test of resolve for soldiers of Seven Platoon who were still recovering from the Sept. 3 attack. “Honestly, the troops performed extremely well in combat, better than I expected,” said Macfarlane. Macfarlane said he saw no signs of fear or hesitation among the troops.
__________________
Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#15
04-10-06, 02:32
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Damn.
My heart is with their families this eve.
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#16
04-10-06, 02:33
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http://www.thestar.com/static/PDF/06...ion_medusa.pdf
The story of C Company Sep. 30, 2006. 05:44 AM MITCH POTTER MIDDLE EAST BUREAU PANJWAII DISTRICT, Afghanistan—One must turn back time several generations to find Canadian soldiers in the state that Charlie Company finds itself today. Not since the Korean War has a single Canadian combat unit been so cut to pieces so quickly. Either of the two events that rocked their world in the dust-caked hills of southern Afghanistan one month ago might qualify as the worst day of their lives. That they came back-to-back — one disastrous morning followed by another even worse — is a matter of almost incomprehensibly bad fortune. The epic double-whammy — a perfect Taliban ambush of unprecedented intensity, followed one day later by a devastating burst of "friendly fire" from a U.S. Air Force A-10 Warthog — reduced Charlie to a status of "combat ineffective." They were the ones to fire the opening shots of Operation Medusa. But even as the massive Canada-led assault was gathering steam they were finished. The soldiers left standing are not the same today as the ones who deployed to Afghanistan with nothing but good intentions barely seven weeks ago, as part of 1st Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, based in Petawawa, Ont. A few are emotional wrecks, too fragile still to speak of what transpired during that fateful Labour Day long weekend. Others bleed anger from their every pore. Some cling to wounded pride, anxious for it to be known that if not for enormous self-sacrifice, the volume of Canadian blood shed these two mornings would have been vastly greater. Others are disillusioned, having come to regard their work in Afghanistan as a mission impossible. And others still are more driven than ever to succeed, if only to lend greater meaning to the loss of their fallen Canadian brothers. The survivors of Charlie Company are closer now than they were before. And the other thing they have in common is a need to tell their story, which they do today for the first time. The White School was the objective, and not for the first time. A full month earlier the 1st Battalion of the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, on the tail end of their six-month deployment, encountered serious Taliban resistance from the single-storey building. It was a hub of Taliban activity, but on the morning of Sept. 3, as Charlie Company's 7 Platoon bore down on the building, only the Taliban knew what a hub it was. In hindsight, some of the soldiers acknowledge their "spidey sense" was tingling. It was quiet that day. Possibly too quiet, as the platoon motored through fields of ripening marijuana plants, each taller than a man. The engineers went first, using an armoured bulldozer to open two breaches through barriers between the pot fields. A clear path to the school was opened, and into it went four LAVs and a G-Wagon, the lightly armoured Mercedes-Benz jeep that many of the Canadians in Kandahar have come to despise as a "bullet magnet." Approaching left to right, the Canadians lined up 50 metres from the school, like ducks in a row. Sitting ducks, it would soon become clear. "All hell broke loose," says Master Cpl. Allan Johnson of Owen Sound, in command of the LAV known as 3.1 Alpha. "It was dead quiet. And then I saw a guy jump up on a roof. Maybe he was giving a signal to the other Taliban. "All I know is the entire area just lit up. We were taking fire from at least two sides, maybe three, with everything they had. Rocket-propelled grenades, small-arms fire, the works. "It was the cherry-popper of all cherry-poppers. And once we started taking casualties, we moved up to provide cover fire. Our cannon didn't stop from that point on." The LAV from 2 Combat Engineer Regiment was the first hit, sustaining a bull's-eye RPG strike beneath the gunner's turret. The radio call announced injuries. It was the day's first fatality — Sgt. Shane Stachnik, 30, of Waskatenau, Alberta. Seconds later the G-Wagon exploded, with an RPG blasting through its passenger-side windshield, instantly killing Warrant Officer Rick Nolan, 39, of Mount Pearl, Nfld. Suddenly, 7 Platoon had lost its leader. Cpl. Richard "Doc" Furoy, 32, of Elliot Lake, Ont., one of the company medics, was sitting directly behind Nolan inside the stricken G-Wagon, where he suffered light shrapnel injuries. He barely remembers the chaos that followed. "Everything in the world came down on us and then, whoomp, the G-Wagon went black. I sort of lost consciousness. I could still feel the spray of gunfire, I could feel the concussion of the rounds inside my chest. But I couldn't hear anything," Furoy told The Star. "At some point, somebody butt-stroked me with their rifle to snap me out of it. I came back into the present, got my wits about me. I knew I was needed. I checked on the Warrant Officer (Nolan). He was dead." Thus began a firefight that lasted a full 3½ hours. As crews dismounted to retrieve the dead and wounded, the Canadian LAV gunners let fly into the marijuana fields with turret-mounted 25mm cannon and C6 fire. Each vehicle burned through at least two "uploads," representing more than a thousand rounds of firepower. 3.1 Charlie went through three uploads of suppression fire before pulling back from its original position, the last to leave the battlefield. But there were more complications when the guns of one of the LAVs, 3.1 Bravo, either jammed or ran dry. Its crew compartment now loaded with casualties, Bravo reversed through the marijuana at 35 km/h, only to crash into a four-metre-deep irrigation ditch. Immobilized, its hydraulic rear ramp jammed shut against the ditch, Bravo took two direct RPG hits before its occupants were able to break open an emergency escape hatch. With the tops of the pot plants snapping off around them as the Taliban barrage continued, many of Bravo's crew managed to make their way to 3.1 Charlie. Into a crew compartment designed for a maximum of eight, they stacked themselves like cordwood, the injured laid out on the laps of the untouched, and raced for cover. Every battle plan includes a CCP, or casualty collection point. But in the frenzy of that Sunday morning the Canadians adapted their plan, moving their casualties to the nearest point of cover they could find — an armoured Zettelmeyer front-end loader belonging to the combat engineers. And it was there that arguably the most tragic death of the day occurred. Warrant Officer Frank Robert Mellish, 38, of 8 Platoon was not meant to be in the teeth of battle that day. But when Mellish, a native of Truro, N.S., learned that fellow Warrant Officer Rick Nolan was dead, he stepped up to help retrieve the body. They were best friends. Moving from the rear guard, more than 1.8 kilometres from the White School, Mellish made it as far as the Zettelmeyer when he was caught in a storm of shrapnel and died. Now 8 Platoon, too, had lost its leader. And in the same barrage, Sgt. Major John Barnes suffered a concussion, taking another key player out of the fight. The day's fourth and final fatality fell next — Pte. William James Cushley, 21, of Port Lambton, Ont., taking shrapnel to the head. And if it seemed the worst was behind Charlie Company, it wasn't. As work continued on sorting out the wounded, the cab door of the Zettelmeyer popped open and its bleeding driver stuck his head out, shouting, "I'm ****ing hurt, too" before slamming shut the door to await rescue. The Canadians had left three stricken vehicles on the battlefield, but were far enough back now to call in air support to renew a bomb assault on the sources of the ambush. And what they saw next gave chills to the entire company. "In the middle of all this chaos, we see this big, black ****-off bomb coming toward us," said Cpl. Rodney Grubb, 25, of Kitchener. "It was like a big, black steel football. It hit the ground and bounced and bounced and bounced. I hit the ground thinking, `Okay, we're done.' And then I got back up. The bomb just came to a stop. It didn't go off." The 500-pound, laser-guided bomb had come from the belly of a U.S. warplane. What saved the Canadians from its explosive force was a safety mechanism designed to disarm the device when it strays from its intended co-ordinates. There was little sleep that night for Charlie Company, which withdrew to safety and watched with grim satisfaction from the top of the Arghandab escarpment as the air and artillery bombardment of the White School and the lines of Taliban ambush were renewed. Some of the men remember hearing the burp of American A-10 Warthog Gatling guns as they bore down on the White School. "I'm convinced someone was watching over us. The amount of bullets that were flying, I just don't know why some of us are still here," said Pte. Daniel Rosati, 27, of Woodbridge. "It was the way people stepped up and covered each other. Everyone stepped up." And now, their blood was up. Charlie didn't want ramp ceremonies for the fallen. They wanted payback. "Your adrenalin wears off, but all you want is to be in that turret and hit those guys as hard as you could," said one of the company's gunners. New orders came down. In the morning Charlie Company was to return to the battlefield to perform "a feint" — to create the appearance of another punch into the ambush, but this time with the intention of drawing out the insurgents. At daybreak, the company had only begun to stir when the fireworks erupted. In the nanosecond between the speed of light and the speed of sound, they saw, but did not hear. "There were sparks in the dust, like the sparklers you wave on Canada Day," said Sgt. Brent Crellin, of Yorkton, Sask. "And then we heard the burp of the gun. And then we felt sick." The A-10 Warthog did not deliver a full burst that morning. But so lethal is its seven-barrel Gatling gun that even the aborted strafing reduced 8 Platoon, Charlie Company, to almost nothing. Of the nearly 40 men in 8 Platoon, only eight were left standing. Dead was Pte. Mark Anthony Graham, 33, of Hamilton, a former Olympian and described by many as "the biggest, strongest guy in the company." And among the wounded was Maj. Matthew Sprague, the company commander. Pte. Greg Bird, 34, also a Hamiltonian, was saved by nature's call. He stepped away just moments before the strafing. "I was caught with my pants down. And when I came running, it was a complete gut-kick. Five minutes before, my head was on my pillow. When I found my pillow, there were pieces of shrapnel in it. "We were fired up and ready to go and suddenly my platoon was in ruins." Everyone in Charlie Company describes the scene as a kind of slow-motion horror film — bleeding men everywhere, some crawling, some moaning. Within minutes, every available shred of medical aid was converging on the site. And within minutes again, the company medics had run dry on QuickClot, a coagulation-speeding agent that burns even as it saves lives. U.S. soldiers and Afghan National Army regulars joined in the rescue effort. In some cases, the lesser injured were seen to be treating the worse-off, even as they themselves bled. "It was a total effort from everyone on the ground, Canadian, American, Afghan, it didn't matter," said Bird. "The response saved lives. Whatever you felt about the attack, you pushed it away and just started helping any way you could." Most of the survivors of Charlie Company are forbidden from speaking about the U.S. Warthog attack, having already testified at a board of inquiry that has yet to pass judgment. Canadian and American military officials were in attendance during the testimony, taken at Kandahar Airfield. But privately, the soldiers say they are gratified to know that the A-10 pilot "owned up to the error" immediately upon landing the aircraft. In stark contrast to the 2002 friendly fire episode that cost Canada its first four casualties in Afghanistan, they say, this pilot is taking responsibility. "It shows you how incredibly deadly the Warthog is," said one soldier. "There aren't very many situations in life where a one-second mistake can do this much damage. That's what this aircraft can do. I know nothing can make this right. But I also know the pilot will have to live with this for the rest of his life." A punch so hard, followed by a punch even harder, makes one wonder how Charlie Company can stand today. But stand they do. Following the A-10 strike the company returned to Kandahar Airfield, saying goodbye to the fallen five in a ramp ceremony, along with the worst among the injured, who were flown out of Afghanistan for further treatment. But barely 36 hours later they were back in the field, returning to Panjwaii. And there, according to the company's regulars, some payback was had. All told, Charlie Company believes itself responsible for as many as 200 of the more than 1,000 Taliban insurgents that NATO officials say died during Operation Medusa. As the operation wound down, Charlie Company managed to get a closer look at the battlefield. There in the marijuana fields they found the telltale signs of an insurgency that, for whatever reason, chose to field itself conventionally this one time. Among the accoutrements were reinforced trenches flanking the lines of ambush. The Canadian soldiers also retrieved the flak jacket of fallen Pte. Cushing and buried it in situ. A cross was staked there in his memory, and a second cross for Warrant Officer Mellish. Today Charlie is still out there, having pushed farther west to a location that has not yet been given a name — and cannot be identified for publication, even if we knew what to call it. The ranks have changed dramatically. A captain is now a major, and so on down the chain of command, as the company reconstitutes in real-time to face whatever comes next. It is four months still before they rotate home to Canada, but most cannot see that far down the line. Many are focusing on their three-week mid-tour leave. And what, after such a battering, do they make of the mission today? It is a touchy question. Very touchy. So touchy, in fact, that although The Star has a notepad filled with the names and ranks of the soldiers who spoke to the question, we have chosen to withhold their identities. After all it has endured, Charlie Company hardly deserves the added grief of answering for the sin of outspokenness. What do they make of the mission? One soldier answered plainly, "I plead the fifth" — borrowing an Americanism to absolve himself from comment, lest he incriminate himself. Another answered, "Hearts and minds? **** that. This is not peacemaking, this is a war for us." One soldier went so far as to answer "You don't," when asked how this war will be won. "It's like squashing an idea. How do you do that?" But many, perhaps even a majority, hold to a different view. In the words of one turret gunner: "Now that your friends have died, you don't want to walk away for nothing." They all loathe New Democratic Party leader Jack Layton. Each, to a man, interprets Layton's stand on Afghanistan as an expression of indifference for their lives. But in almost the same breath, they say they need help. Canada's ratio of boots on the ground versus behind-the-wire support personnel at Kandahar Airfield frustrates this front-line. "The numbers are backwards. More combat, less support is what we need," said one section leader. Capt. Ryan Carey, 35, a native of Oakville, is not surprised to hear the complaints. Like all of Canada's commissioned officers in Afghanistan, he is acutely aware that the real battle ahead will be political, not military. "We lost amazing people. The experience and the personalities of the men who died, they just can't be replaced," he said. "And if the result is a harder attitude on the part of some of these guys, I don't agree with it. But I understand it. You're not going to win this thing with a group of grunts who just went through this and then turn around to ask them to do hearts and minds. "We still think everyone approaching us wants to kill us. We have no choice but to plan for a fight right till we leave." But Carey, like the rest of Charlie Company's newly ascended leadership, doesn't see more troops as the answer. Not more foreign troops, in any event. "More Canadians? Is that not just like giving candy to the Taliban? I think what we need is more ANA soldiers. At the end of the day it is the Afghans, with lots of backing for reconstruction, who are going to turn this thing. Not the people who point the weapons." http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968793972154
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#17
06-10-06, 14:54
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Ok, what's the real story here?
The following in the Toronto Sun today.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canad...63768-sun.html Quote:
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#18
06-10-06, 15:34
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Hi
My 2 cents: We only get that particular pay when we're in Theatre. It's not like the Military is "failing to support the troops". That's a groundless assumption. He should not get that pay if he's not in theatre. I fail to see the source of the Father's anger. This has been how it's been in the Canadian Military since the Riel Rebellion. If you're not there, you don't get it. Period. Think of it this way; You work for a Corporation that pays you extra for a specific function. You are not employed in that function. Should you recieve that pay? If he did get it, I could see the other side of the coin in that someone else would scream blue murder that we were getting money for nothing. The lad is wounded. I'm sorry but that's not reason enough to get $ you don't deserve. He'll get plenty of other $ from VAC ( a Govmt org!!) etc. These are rules known to every one of us well in advance. Before anyone dares to bark at me; remember my Wife's Brother is in the exact same boat and I know for a fact he agrees with me as I spoke to him last nite. Quote:
regards Darrell Last edited by Darrell Zinck; 06-10-06 at 15:49.
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#19
06-10-06, 15:46
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Hi
The Brother in law:  Quote:
regards Darrell
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#20
06-10-06, 15:46
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No Change.....
Quote:
Pay and allowances policys haven't changed in this aspect since I got out 30 years ago... While I hate to see any of our troops hurt and am wearing my red shirt today,there has to be rules and regs and discipline.. When on TD(Temporary duty) certain pay and allowances apply...when you are off that TD ,the goodies stop.. Jump pay and flight pay is the same .,..when no jump ..no fly..no pay.. Our normal pay and allowances continue,so would the wounded members... So nothing has really changed.. God bless our troops.
__________________
Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#21
06-10-06, 15:53
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Hi Alex
That's the way it is. No specific job then no specific pay. Makes perfect sense to me. I really think it's just the Father's emotions talking combined with a lack of knowledge and media hype. They're just trying to sell papers, right? I doubt they (the media) care a Tinker's Cuss about us other than as a potential source of profit. Do I sound jaded??  regards Darrell
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#22
06-10-06, 16:06
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Thanks Darrell. I thought this was the way, and it makes sense. I never took a call-out during my time in, so never looked up that stuff... if I ever learned it, it's long since faded!
 A shame the media has to jump on sob stories like this - it surprises me a bit coming from the Sun, even though they pride themselves on being open to alternate viewpoints. With regards the gentleman himself, why he would go after the Regiment is beyond me. I can only suppose that it's been so long since we've taken casualties so openly (a lot of our 'peacekeeping' casualties were back-page news if at all) that the public-at-large is ill-prepared to deal with the emotional effects of same.
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#23
06-10-06, 16:58
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Quote:
I hope everyone is as common-sense minded as you.  What the public at large fails to realize is that the emotional effects are the same to each and every family that loses a soldier, whether it's our "back-page" UN casualties or the in-the- black, multi-edition-selling Afghanistan troops and their losses. Too well do I remember Wallace and Bons (since I see their memorial every day), and Isfeld an Cooper (I was on that tour, or Jim Ogilvie (stood at his memorial in Bosnia on 11 Nov 2004). Take a look at this List and tell me how many you remember. Soldiers and the Military do what the Govmt tells them to. It's a simple job really. All we have to do is our very best and that's more self-serving than anything else. Where would Mr Hunter's Boy be if Sgt Gillam wasn't able to provide a little warning to his troops? Has Mr Hunter talked to Maureen Gillam yet? Does he know his son is only likely alive due to the fact Chris gave up his to get some shots off? Ex-cop or no; he should know better. I forgive him tho' as it's most likely emotion speaking. I too would be horrified to have a child of mine hurt but would also engage brain before speaking so publicly. Rant over. The opinions and views expressed above are mine and mine alone. Who's wearing Red today?? regards Darrell
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#24
06-10-06, 18:12
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Canada in Afganistan
It's Friday and it's a Red day for us here in Windsor....
About the about the Hazard pay and income tax adjustment as Darryl said ....you have to be "in theater" . Op ATHENA roto 1 2002 Op MINURSO roto 3 1991 OP DANACA roto ? 1989 Mike Timoshyk 52 M38 42 MB
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#25
06-10-06, 18:14
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Canada in Afganistan
Sorry for the mis spelling of your name Darrell
Cheers Mike
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#26
06-10-06, 18:48
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No worrys. I probably couldn't get yours right the first time either!!....................Myke.
 Nice rack of tours you have. E&K Scots? regards Darrell
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#27
06-10-06, 19:25
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Interesting Timing
The following today, comments?
Quote:
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#28
06-10-06, 19:50
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Canada in Afganistan
Hi Darryl,
I think the last time we met was in the new War Museum gift shop on Vimy Day this past year on my way to my Intended Place of Residence on retirement. Not E&K ....31 years Reg Force retired this past April, As the yanks so kindly put it " REMF". LOL cheers Miyke good news about Hillier and he has to do is change Treasury Board Rules.....from past experience that is like pushing a rope. fingers crossed for the troopies mjt
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#29
06-10-06, 21:52
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Hi Geoff
Well then, it would seem there is another the reason I'm not CDS!! If General Hillier throws his weight behind changing this, who am I to disagree? Maybe I'll pick up a nice (slight) wound myself when I go in late January and make a bunch of extra cash too.  Although I can empathize with young Hunter and agree that perhaps his pay could have been extended the full 25 days, I still say that he will be compensated financially for his injuries by Federal Agencys other than the Dept of Nat Def. Asking that he continue to recieve it all even after repat, amounts to asking for a change in the Rules. Rules that were in place for everyone else for a long time before Afghanistan, I might add. Asking for a change in the rules isn't something done in a manner that the media is reporting. I stand by all my previous statements. I should point out the $2100 that he was recieving was not just one allowance but a combination of several different ones. Danger Pay, Foriegn Service Allowance, etc, all make up that dollar amount. I get FOA (Field Operation Allowance) when on Exercise here in Canada so by the reasoning of some, I should get that 365/24/7 by virtue of the fact that I'm in a Field Trade? Or by virtue that I come out of the field after an Ex and have dirt in my nails for weeks afterwards? Hmmmm. Or I spend 5 weeks on an Armoured vehicle during an Exercise and my joints ache and my body is bruised because of it for months afterwards so therefore deserve FOA all that time? No? Anyone else see the difference. Mikey, Michael, Mike, Myke....... I'd be lying if I recalled everyone I met over those two days but have a vague recollection of us meeting. Was that before or after I sun-burned the crap out of my face?? regards Darrell
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#30
06-10-06, 22:34
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Darrell,
Someone here with your or Mike's perspective should write the Sun, referencing the quoted article, and patiently explain the system to them. Quoting some of your earlier words would seem to fit well, and while doing so, take a mild swipe at the Libs who are screaming about this, considering it's a policy extant since Pearson's days...
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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