[Enfield] Grenade Launcher Cup for NO.36 Mills Bomb

EnfieldGuy · #1 01-02-06, 06:20

RE: [Enfield] Grenade Launcher Cup for NO.36 Mills Bomb

I'd like to know more - It has been hard to find info.

And was the Grenade Launcher Cup distinctly used with the Enfield Mk.IV?? Or could it be used with the Enfield III???

I look forward to your insight.

D.C.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #2 01-02-06, 12:42

AFAIK, it was a WW1 derivation used exclusively with the SMLE, even into WW2. Bruce Parker can probably back me up on this. Forty years ago, you could still buy copper-wire-reinforced SMLEs for 25 bucks here, but they're all gone now.

Stewart Loy · #3 01-02-06, 12:52

Geoff,

I saw a nice grenade launching rifle at the last gun show - for $700!

It has been at the last few shows, and I suspect that it will be at the next.

Stewart

sapper740 · #4 01-02-06, 21:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
AFAIK, it was a WW1 derivation used exclusively with the SMLE, even into WW2. Bruce Parker can probably back me up on this. Forty years ago, you could still buy copper-wire-reinforced SMLEs for 25 bucks here, but they're all gone now.

$125.00 at a Fort Worth gun store...how many you want?

EnfieldGuy · #5 02-02-06, 01:26

Were the wired Enfileds easily converted from a grenade launcher to a normal rifle??

Does the grenade launcher cup just "snap on" or is it a considerable set up???

Keep the info coming!

Cheers,

D.C.

rob love · #6 02-02-06, 01:48

You can remove the wire from the rifle, but the 60+ years of time on the unwrapped part will never look like the wrapped part. Otherwise, the wire wrapped rifles can be fired, although some will argue that that was only in emergencies.
The cup simply clipped on the front of the rifle, and could be removed in minutes. The wire wrapping was only to prevent the forestock from splintering from the extra pressures of firing the heavy grenade.
There was a bit of an adjustment (if I recall) on the cup to adapt it to the varying lengths of the barrel stub. But once adjusted for a particular rifle, it would go on or off in a few seconds.

alleramilitaria · #7 02-02-06, 02:40

the grenade rifles sell around here for about $150 with cup. the rifles normaly have a poor bore due to fouling, the blanks didnt clean out the rifle after each fireing like the normal FMJ ammo. this resulted in more corosion. i have 3 grenade rifles, all are good shooters, but have a loose grooping.

sapper740 · #8 02-02-06, 02:59

Quote:

Originally posted by EnfieldGuy
Were the wired Enfileds easily converted from a grenade launcher to a normal rifle??

Does the grenade launcher cup just "snap on" or is it a considerable set up??

The discharger cup is quite easy to mount on the SMLE No1 Mk3, there are no adjustments necessary. All you do is hold the "clamps" as I'll call them in the recesses of the front sight protector, rest the cup discharger recess on the bayonet lug, and twist the cup. It will screw itself on perfectly centred over the muzzle. I've included some pics so you can get an idea of how it goes on.
The whole get up is quite heavy, between 12 and 13 lbs. When fired, the rifle butt was placed on the ground and the rifle was angled towards the target, mortar style. The trigger was topmost so the rifle looks upside down when firing.
There was another type of grenade which could be launched from the No1 Mk3. The grenade was attached to a rod which the firer placed down the muzzle. It was held in place by two spring steel clips that went into the same recesses of the front sight protector as the cup discharger. I had both types of grenade in Canada, but had to sell them before moving to the U.S.
Hope this info and these pics help.

sapper740 · #9 02-02-06, 03:01

Quote:

Originally posted by EnfieldGuy
Does the grenade launcher cup just "snap on" or is it a considerable set up??

The cup discharger has a variable opening on the side to vent varying amounts of propellant gas to adjust the range of the grenade. Here it is open.

sapper740 · #10 02-02-06, 03:03

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
The cup discharger has a variable opening on the side to vent varying amounts of propellant gas to adjust the range of the grenade. Here it is closed

sapper740 · #11 02-02-06, 03:07

One more pic

Tony Smith · #12 02-02-06, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
AFAIK, it was a WW1 derivation used exclusively with the SMLE, even into WW2.

The WW1 "Cups, Discharger, Grenade" was much cruder than the WW2 version and could only be fired on full charge. As Derek has shown, the WW2 version has a sliding port to vary the proportion of full charge that was directed to the gas check fitted to the base of the No36 Grenade. Somewhere I have a manual for the "Cups, discharger" that lists the various ranges that could be acheived with the port fully closed, half open and 3/4 open.

The "Cups, Discharger" was generally used only with a No1, Mk3 EY rifle, which was converted from a standard rifle with a worn barrel by wrapping the woodwork with copper wire to withstand the excessive chamber pressures involved in firing a grenade. The rifle could fire normal Ball ammo, but the accuracy was well off. The "Cups, Discharger" could also be used on a standard service rifle, but chamber pressures were such that it was only recommended with a Heavy Barrel rifle, or the copper wire re-inforced EY. There was a Patt '37 pouch to carry the Cup, but as stated, it was not common to fit it to other than a dedicated EY rifle.

Tony Smith · #13 02-02-06, 14:40

The No36 grenade, when used for throwing, was fitted with a 3 second fuze, but for EY Rifle use was fitted with a 7 second fuze and the base plug replaced with a Gas Check plate. The range when thrown was something like 30yds, in the EY Rifle was in the order of 200yds.

EnfieldGuy · #14 02-02-06, 17:57

Thanks for all the information!

I came across one of these Australian Enfield EY rifles while in Ontario. The fellow was asking $475.00 CAD, which I recognized as quite expensive (considering that a complete WW2 Longbranch Enfield IV can be purchased for that price).

Never the less, VERY interesting. I hope to come across some stories involving use in some of the books that I read.

However, just one last question:

How were these EY rifles issued??

Were they common amongst both small or large sections of soldiers?? (for example, did every 50-man section have 2 EY riflemen??)

Or were there specific EY riflemen for "special occasions"??

Thanks again! I have added a "Wanted" ad on the MLU site for one of these cups.

sgtbrown · #15 05-02-06, 22:25

I bought my cup discharger rifle about ten years ago ($75 complete) from a company in Penn Run, PA, called Springfield Sporters. Just went to their web site and it seems to indicated they are parts only now. Might be worth a call if you are interested in either a whole unit or just the cup discharger.

http://ssporters.com/index.html

When used in a living history display, the rifle always elicits lots of questions and comments. I bought a resin Mills bomb and made it up with the plate on the bottom to go with the rifle.

Something I have always wondered is how much it was used after D-Day. From much of what I have seen, it seems the 2" mortar pretty well took its place by then.

Tom

Tony Smith · #16 22-02-06, 15:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Somewhere I have a manual for the "Cups, discharger" that lists the various ranges that could be acheived with the port fully closed, half open and 3/4 open.

Found it. (note I amended the previous post with it's wildly optimistic range predictions

)

EnfieldGuy · #17 24-02-06, 18:53

Great snipit of information!

Does anyone have any info on importing one of these rifles [to be registered] from the U.S. to Canada?

Apparently, an Enfield EY is $125 "at a Fort Worth gun store," where a launcher cup is around $100 alone.

It is obvious what the better deal is.

Thanks again for the info!

David R. Clark
Saskatoon, SK.

sapper740 · #18 24-02-06, 21:03

Quote:

Originally posted by EnfieldGuy
Great snipit of information!

Does anyone have any info on importing one of these rifles [to be registered] from the U.S. to Canada?

Apparently, an Enfield EY is $125 "at a Fort Worth gun store," where a launcher cup is around $100 alone.

It is obvious what the better deal is.

Thanks again for the info!

David R. Clark
Saskatoon, SK.

Just to let all know, not just those that pm'd me. Military Gun Supply Inc. of Ft. Worth, Tx. has no more wire wrapped SMLE's with the discharger cup. They sold their last one a while ago. I didn't think they'd last long at that price. I'll keep my eyes and ears open at gun and militaria shows to see if I can find some more. However, It might be problematic to import these to Canada...whoever is in the know of Canadian import regulations might want to apprise everybody of the facts. Don't want anyone to get into trouble.
When my move to the U.S. was imminent I contacted the B.A.T.F. field office in Seattle to get the straight goods on what was legal to bring with me of my then substantial firearm collection...it turned out not much! I couldn't even bring my collection of anti-tank rounds, the Boys, Lahti, and Mauser 1918 rounds as well as my grenade collection all had to remain behind. But considering the alternative: 10 years in a Federal prison and a $10,000.00 fine, I guess it wasn't so bad. I'll keep looking for Enfield EY but for my compatriots in Canada, you'll have to have your paper work in order.

CHIMO!