1941 Church Army Chevrolets

David_Hayward (RIP) · #1 18-08-05, 23:39

These are very interesting photos! They appear to be wartime, 1941?..does someone have the gen on which year the London County Council registrations were please? Note left hand drive, civilian style front bumpers but military front end, and on the extreme left hand truck perhaps a twin rear wheel missing? They are apparently a gift from the USA so I am guessing 1941 Model YR if they have the 134" wheelbase. I have rego information on numerous YRs that were used for 'essential users' etc.

Note the very odd utility bodywork...this may have been by Duples and the fronts are similar to that of wartime utility buses.

Note also the difference in cowls between the two pairs of trucks...very odd!!

cliff · #2 19-08-05, 00:07

David they are not military style front ends but instead civilian models with black out covers on the headlights. They also have the larger heavy duty rear axle but a single wheel instead of duels. This is the same as the Polish Red Cross ambulance photo you put up some time ago.

So 1941 civilian LHD cowl/chassis units with a coach built body. 134in WB is my guess as well.

Another thing to note is the two to the Right have smaller wheels and tyres fitted as they appear to be lower to the ground at bonnet (hood) level.

very nice David thanks for sharing.

cheers
Cliff

David_Hayward (RIP) · #3 19-08-05, 00:29

Thanks for the correction Cliff! I keep thinking that the front end and utility design apes the Holden-bodied US-sourced YRs..what do you think? However that front screen design on the left pair is very similar to that of known Continental 1939-40 Models and I think was very similar to that of a number of diverted/ prize seizures of ex-Belgian and / or Norwegian & Swedish orders*) acquired and then bodied with wooden utility cabs for and by the Ministry of Supply, and also made available through the civilian dealer network as well in late 1940 and 1941: see WHEELS & TRACKS photo with the Nurse talking to the ATS driver.

I suggest the smaller two right hand trucks might be MS models, of which I know one was a Mobile Canteen ..the MS was a 1/2 ton Heavy Duty but rated at up to 42 cwt for civvy purposes. The wheelbase was 125". After that in the imported line-up was the AN 1-ton 134" w.b. and then the ubiquitous YR 1 1/2-tonner 134" w.b. The right pair appear to have more forward-control than the other two, and I thought they might have been 'chassis with flat-face cowl' versions.

The 1941 Panel Vans imported were the Model AJ, which succeeded the 1940 WA Vans mentioned although I have evidence of a 1-ton 1941 Model Oshawa-built 1435 Panel Van registered as a '35 cwt Van' in May 1941 with the 134 1/2" w.b.

* The Royal Navy seized a ship with a caro of Chevrolet and GMC trucks destined for GM International, Copenhagen, intended for Norwegian and Swedish dealers before the German invasion of Norway. General Motors tried to claim the cargo or value because they argued that they were destined for neutral countries who had paid for the shipments already. They got short thrift despite high-level overtures from New York and the monetary value was acquired by the Custodian of Enemy Property. As an aside, a cargo of seized Opel cars was auctioned off at the dockside in Southampton [in August 1940 I believe], and sold at rock-bottom prices as who wanted a 'Jerry' car at the time? There was a Southampton-registered Opel Blitz truck scrapped in 1944 that was used by the fire service after being sequestred! I know of at least one pre-war Opel car that was used by the Ministry of Supply during the war as well.

cliff · #4 19-08-05, 04:17

you are correct in pointing out the two on the right as being more 'forward control' for the lack of a better word as the coach work has been built 'OVER' the cowl and has the windscreen built at the rear edge of the bonnet (hood) where as the left pair have the cowl, with vent, in front of the windscreen.

I think that all would have been export flat cowl units and the bodybuilder who built the bodies on the Right hand pair has removed the cowl unit when constructing the bodies because of a possible shorter wheelbase with a fairly standard type body being built on them. This was probably an easier way of constructing them then trying to lengthen the chassis.

Cheers
Cliff

David_Hayward (RIP) · #5 19-08-05, 10:08

Similar work was carried out previously on Chevrolet and then Bedford buses. Here is an example of this idea on a Ford Transit:

cliff · #6 19-08-05, 10:39

David after having another more careful look (which I should have done the first time) at an enlarged photo and then zooming in on the Right hand pair they have been converted to COE style configuration as the body is approx halfway up the Bonnet (hood) and the front mudguards. This does in fact make sense as there is a lot of space down the side of the motor and at the rear of the front wheels under the Mudguards.

I wonder if any of these exist today? (the Chevs not the Ford Transit)

The Ford Transit van is similar except for the design being semi COE from the start where as the Chev's were conventional body configuration and not COE.

I wonder how much influence the genuine COE design had on the body builders? Of course the COE versions if my memory is correct were a lot higher then these conventional style trucks.

cheers
Cliff

Keith Webb · #7 19-08-05, 10:49

That would have to be one of the ugliest things ever put on wheels!

Looks like it was designed in Russia on a bad day.

Hanno Spoelstra · #8 19-08-05, 12:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Webb
That would have to be one of the ugliest things ever put on wheels!

Looks like it was designed in Russia on a bad day.

Have you seen any UPS delivery vans lately?

World-wide standard stylish 'Murrican design!

At least they are in a shade of our beloved DTB

David_Hayward (RIP) · #9 19-08-05, 14:24

You think that's ugly, how about this poor Land-Rover that is neither fish nor fowl, Normal Control or Forward Control, from 1961....note the same idea as the Chevs, namely to create what they called semi-Forward Control in the Thirties.

The type of semi-FC was achieved on Luton-built Chevrolets and Bedfords from around 1930. There were a few companies that did such conversions including BAICO PATENTS LIMITED of London.

Lynn Eades · #10 19-08-05, 23:18

Yes Keith, As far as ugly goes the Transit wins without question. Im not a Landrover fan but that Landy is just worlds ahead of the Transit. Uurrghh!!!!!

David_Hayward (RIP) · #11 19-08-05, 23:35

Any guesses as to the model type of this Karrier 6-wheeler?
This may have been taken at Bryanston Street, London W1 near Marble Arch, which I believe was the CA's headquarters at the time. The notation underneath and on the Chevs is 'THE BRITISH WAR RELIEF SOCIETY ........INCORPORATED USA'

#12 20-08-05, 00:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Have you seen any UPS delivery vans lately?

Last I heard there was a rumour Federal Express and UPS might form a merged company.

The new conglomerate would then be Fed-Up.

R.

#13 20-08-05, 00:43

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
These are very interesting photos! They appear to be wartime, 1941?..does someone have the gen on which year the London County Council registrations were please?

The Met "GOLI" list gives 1941 as first issue of GGW, where the GW defines London CC, the sequence using GGW with year letter prefix A (1963) was allocated but never issued as were all year letter prefixes from GGW to YGW inclusive. HGW + 3 figs, the next in sequence, was first issued 1945.

Its difficult to see accurately, but the vehicle third from the left I think is GLB 65 but could just be GL 865 owing to pixellation. GL + 3 figs is possible but unlikely being Bath CBC, but issued 1932 - 1947. More likely fits the London idea being a 1941 first issue again with HLB appearing in 1946.

R.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #14 20-08-05, 08:53

Yes. definitely GGW, not CGW, and GLB.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #15 25-08-05, 22:02

..are 1941 Model AJ Dubl-Duty Package Delivery trucks! 1/2-ton, walk-thru. Several were used as Mobile Canteens, and consequently had civilian registrations. Sourced from Flint, Michigan plant whereas the YRs came from Tarrytown, NY.

Keith Webb · #16 25-08-05, 22:49

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
..are 1941 Model AJ Dubl-Duty Package Delivery trucks! 1/2-ton, walk-thru. Several were sued as Mobile Canteens.

How much for?

Sorry David, couldn't resist that one

Tony Smith · #17 25-08-05, 23:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Several were sued as Mobile canteens

How much for?

Sorry David, couldn't resist that one

A piecost, obviously!

(What's a Piecost? If you have to ask, you can't afford one!)

David_Hayward (RIP) · #18 26-08-05, 11:10

Quote:

How much for?

Wotch it! Karmen will be sent round with her Tim Tam smashing frying pan!

David_Hayward (RIP) · #19 14-09-05, 21:24

The two right-hand Church Army Chevrolets are the same as:

Does Crewman have this photo please or was it downloaded?

I have since been sent more photos and a wartime book with photos of more of these Chevrolets plus Bedford and Ford trucks. All were Mobile Canteens save for one which was a Mobile Library that visited outlying regions of Britain with books for service personnel. There is another with the Hon Vincent Masey signing his name on the side in chalk. The truck is covered in Canadian service personnel's comments!

I am after any photos of YMCA, Salvation Army, Church of Scotland, NAAFI, Red Cross, Church Army and other Mobile Canteens. I have a photo of a '40 Canadian Ford used by the Canadian YMCA..does anyone have any others please?

Les Freathy · #20 21-11-05, 00:27

Good evening David
I am a new name to the forum and providing i can master the photo attatchment i will be contributing to a number of the threads. To start i have posted this photo of one of the church army Chevrolets seen on a visit to a 40mm Bofors gun, the van was a gift from a mrs Straus in memory of her husband Herbert and numbered 124.

Les Freathy · #21 21-11-05, 00:35

Sorry
I cannot get my head around the attatchment system prehaps someone would be kind enough to explain in easy layman terms how it is carried out

David_Hayward (RIP) · #22 21-11-05, 08:59

1. You can always send me the photo and I will attach it or host it!
2. Go to ATTACH FILE box under Show Signture and then use Browse to locate the file on your hard drive. You then click on the file location and then if al goes well the file will be uplifted to the site. Just make sure please it is not too large! I will always be interested in the original being able to be borrowed for professional scanning please if possible.

I have now acquired several IWM photos of Church Army vans..mostly 1941 Chevrolet AJ Dubl-Duti chassis with DIVCO bodies with a few older vans domated.

Les Freathy · #23 21-11-05, 21:41

david
hopefully the canteen photo
les

David_Hayward (RIP) · #24 21-11-05, 22:21

Another version! DIVCO-bodied Chevrolet AJ.

Les Freathy · #25 22-11-05, 10:53

another shot of a working canteen

Les Freathy · #26 22-11-05, 11:02

and another working it would appear at Whitehall?

Les Freathy · #27 22-11-05, 11:13

and finally for now a rear view serving troops i have been informed at Hyde Park but i will leave that open to debate
Stange machines these computers my first effort was angled wrong but when scanned to the file it was the right way up and also when i ran a print off but when Emailed reverted back to the position it was laid on the scanner. there you go i still have a lot to learn about these thingsat least i dont feel like winging it through to study window anymore Fun and games

David_Hayward (RIP) · #28 22-11-05, 11:23

Les note the US? Hoverfly photo van has a GLB rego...same series as the Dubl-Duti in the depot. Are you able to send me TIFs or perhaps loan the originals to my boss for scanning professionally please?

Thank you for posting these excellent photos.

Les Freathy · #29 22-11-05, 11:23

Christ! i will get this right heres the Hyde park one

Bill Murray · #30 22-11-05, 12:37

Good Morning Les:

And....Welcome to the Forum!!!

As an amazing coincidence, I got into some storage boxes in my basement over the weekend and broke out many, many files of photos and articles I had not viewed for 20 years or more.

What should I find but all of your Airfix magazine articles on CMPs done in 1984. If memory serves me correctly, you did others as well and I hope I saved them too and will discover them as I sort out all of this "old/new" stuff. You might mention here some of the things you have published in earlier days. I am sure it would be of interest to this merry band.

And...I look forward to seeing many posts on many vehicles from you here on MLU Forum.

Regards
Bill