“1941 CMP Amphibious vehicle” (4x4)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

It wasn’t made in Canada but appears that it may have been built by yellow truck in Michigan in a plant that in the same year geared up for and produced many DUKW. I just can’t see anyone building a one off outside of a trials or pre production product when 6x6 DUKW were plentiful and cheap.

To me that's an indication DUKW parts were used in its construction. The question is if DUKWs were plentiful and cheap in the area where the subject vehicle was constructed.

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

The UK did want, and produced, an alternative to the DUKW:

But given that they had both, I agree that it would be unlikely to want a third source for yet another vehicle, especially — as you mention — DUKW production was well underway in the USA.

Good point, but the Terrapin was an indigenous product.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Good point, but the Terrapin was an indigenous product.

What I meant was that, given that the UK was developing/building the Terrapin as a DUKW alternative, I’d think it unlikely they would need another DUKW alternative on the basis of a CMP. Unless, of course, that was perhaps developed alongside the Terrapin? But then I would think there would be information about it in sources relating to Terrapin development.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

What I meant was that, given that the UK was developing/building the Terrapin as a DUKW alternative, I’d think it unlikely they would need another DUKW alternative on the basis of a CMP. Unless, of course, that was perhaps developed alongside the Terrapin? But then I would think there would be information about it in sources relating to Terrapin development.

Ah yes, check. Indeed there is no sign of a paper trail. I'd put my money on the Italian National Fire and Rescue Service lead. This may be a fun vehicle, but apart from the concept and (some of) the components, it has no military heritage if you ask me.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

I remembered yesterday that I recently helped out P.M. Knight with some Dutch translations for a book he’s writing about the Terrapin, and thought I’d e-mail him to see if he knows anything about this CMP-DUKW-thing in relation to the Terrapin. He wrote back to say:—

There was an Amphibian Trials and Development Board (ATDB) in Canada, and their chairman,. J.E. Hahn, visited the British Ministry of Supply in August 1943 to discuss the possibility of the Canadians building either DUKW's or Terrapins. The problem was that the existing Ford, Chrysler and GM plants in Canada did not make six-wheeled trucks whose production lines could be readily converted to make DUKW's, but only 4 x 4's (i.e. CMP's). However the Canadians did at least undertake to investigate whether they could produce DUKW's at the expense of CMP's, although nothing seems to have come of this. In the event the Canadians were scheduled to make Terrapin Mk.II's in big numbers (approx. 2000), but this initiative ended with the cancellation of the Terrapin Mk.II in mid-1945. The Canadians were heavily involved in the development of the Terrapin Mk.I, btw.

I think the most likely provenance of the vehicle is that Yellow may have made a few trial DUKW's with CMP chassis, as this would have provided commonality of parts within Canadian forces. I suspect that this may have been conceived before the US entered the war, after which the Americans needed DUKW's for themselves, and so providing a separate model for the Canadians would have been inefficient.

I'll keep an eye open to see if I've got any information on this which I may have previously overlooked.

[Jordan Baker]

This sounds like a job for a Colin Alford to dig into the archives…

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

This sounds like a job for a Colin Alford to dig into the archives…

Possibly P.M. Knight’s lead (see above) may set Colin off in the right direction.

[Colin Alford]

It appears that my services have been requested.

Here are my initial results:

According to the file list for the CMHQ “55” block files, the amphibian vehicles are in the 55/1350 series: https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o..._reel_c5770/19

Unfortunately, it appears that the 55/1350 series files should be on microfilm C-5783 which is not available online.

I stumbled across this very interesting document which gives details on Canadian vehicles assembled in the UK, and claims to list all local contracts for vehicle bodies and modification kits. It does not mention any amphibious vehicles: https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...eel_c5781/4514

Please note, ATDB normally stands for Army Technical Development Board, which was succeeded by DVD (Directorate of Vehicle Development) late in the war.

I’ll attempt some more research later.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

I remembered yesterday that I recently helped out P.M. Knight with some Dutch translations for a book he’s writing about the Terrapin, and thought I’d e-mail him to see if he knows anything about this CMP-DUKW-thing in relation to the Terrapin. He wrote back to say:—

Great info!