“1941 CMP Amphibious vehicle” (4x4)

[rob love]

I find it odd that such a vehicle could have been built, tested, landed in Sicily, but no mention about it in the Design Branch Records. Never say never, but.........

[David Dunlop]

I was curious about that as well, Rob, but am not familiar enough with the Design Branch documentation to know if it covered everything ever thought of during the war, or only equipment that actually made it into full production?

My thought was that perhaps GM perceived a need to supplement DUKW production, in some form or other, and saw advantages for them doing so via a CMP version. they may have gone as far as building one or more pilot vehicles, advising the Canadian Army what they were up to in the process.

If the concept was being fully funded by GM and not interfering with GM's existing obligations in any way, the Army/Government may have gone along for the ride and helped where they could. The vehicle may have been a dud, or a success that was subsequently no longer needed...end of story. If that were the case, would it ever have made it into the Design Branch records?

What I cannot figure out, however, is how one or more pilot vehicles may have survived all these years in Europe and that flows back into my concerns about the lack of information about this vehicle being offered for sale. If it were mine, I would have been screaming from the rooftops about it from the moment I found it, throughout any restoration work, to try and learn as much as possible about it. But then my wife says I am weird.

Just a thought. Is there a DUKW expert out there familiar enough with the production history of that vehicle who might know it there were any production capacity concerns with it in 1941/1942 that would have prompted GM to consider alternate manufacturing?



David

[Bruce MacMillan]

Back in 2010 Mark Tonner had some info on DUKWs used in Italy with Canadians.

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

During the period of the Second World War, there were no DUKWs held on establishment of the Canadian Army. The ones that did operate with Canadian forces in both Sicily/Italy and in North-West Europe were operated by either British Royal Engineers or by the Royal Army Service Corps.

Being in use by the UK would explain right hand drive. But wasn't the DUKW 6 wheeled?

[Ed Storey]

Given the number of vehicles used by the 1st Canadian Division from the landings in Sicily through to the end of the war in Germany, and how few, if any, have survived to this day; I am really curious how such a 'rare' vehicle has ended up for sale in Germany?

[Alex van de Wetering]

It's quite elaborate for an April fools joke...

[David Dunlop]

I have been looking into the history of the DUKW a bit more as a result of Bruce McMillans comments.

Several online sources state total production was on the order of 20,000 vehicles across two models, ten percent of which went to the British Army. They were the largest none American user during the war.

The MilWeb photos still do not answer a lot of questions and if anything, raise more. However, my thoughts about this particular vehicles origins have shifted now. Rather than focusing on the CMP aspect of this item, and all the Canadian spinoff that comes with that concept, is it more possible that this might actually be a design concept trial vehicle developed entirely in England during the war? The British Army clearly liked the DUKW, they bought a lot of them. But could reliable deliveries have been enough of an issue during the Battle of the Atlantic that they seriously considered cloning the DUKW with available resources. If that were the case, it would make sense absolutely no records of said vehicle would show up anywhere in Canada. Research instead would have to focus on who might have designed, built and tested the vehicle in England. On that basis, it could very easily have been embedded in the supply of DUKWs being utilized by the British Army in Sicily, for evaluation purposes. Was there a specific research establishment in England during the war where this development project could have taken place.

As an aside to Bruces comments regarding the use of the DUKW by the Canadian Army during WW2, it seems to have persisted in another variation through to the 1950s at least. During the 1950 Flood in Winnipeg, two dozen DUKW's were on strength in Military District 10, headquartered here in Winnipeg. As the flood developed, these DUKWs were consolidated at the Crescentwood Community Club grounds on Corydon Avenue for deployment to assist the civil authorities as needed. This area was high ground close to River Heights and Ft Osborne Barracks (MD 10 HQ). Interestingly, these DUKWs were operated and manned by RCN personnel to accommodate the needs of the Canadian Army. Six of these DUKWs were still at the Kapyong Army Base in Winnipeg in the late 1960's and early 1970's and one would often be seen on the roads in River Heights with large DRIVER TRAINING signs hanging off of it, and being operated completely by 2PPCLI personnel by that time.


David

[Bruce MacMillan]

There should be stamps on the frame, motor, chassis, etc that give a clue to origin. If the seller is making the claim of Canadian origin then I would expect these to be revealed. Maybe it's a frankentruck.

Canada switched from right hand to left hand (steering wheel position) drive back in 1924.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

is it more possible that this might actually be a design concept trial vehicle developed entirely in England during the war? The British Army clearly liked the DUKW, they bought a lot of them. But could reliable deliveries have been enough of an issue during the Battle of the Atlantic that they seriously considered cloning the DUKW with available resources.

David

The Brits definitely liked the DUKW....I think the last 2 were released from the Royal Navy only a few years ago(?).
But, if a supply problem due to the battle of the Atlantic was the issue, why would they use Canadian overseas components to build this DUKW clone in stead of using domestic components supporting their own industry?
I guess anything is possible.....but I am with Niels that this could well be a postwar development from the Italians...or maybe even French navy?

But, the date of april 2nd for the ad is too much of coincidence for me.....there are too much different pictures to be photoshop, so the vehicle most likely exists......but I have a feeling the seller might be having a laugh with the advert text.