11 Cab F8 - Change of Plans

[Yeo.NT]

The restoration of my f8 has begun after hiding away in my backyard for a few years (Thanks Dad). Originally the plan was to build a "Car, Heavy Utility, 4x2" which I posted about when first acquired this truck. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24422

As I started looking at the truck and discovered the Serial Number 1G-2818, cooler heads prevailed and it was decided to restore it to factory specs (almost). When I pulled it out of a field near Biggar Saskatchewan, it was a surprising that the Unit Markings still survived. With a little research I was able to find that 2 Medium Regiment was formed in Petawawa between Oct 1939 - Jan 1942 and once the restoration is complete I will bring it back to Petawawa to complete its journey full circle.

Restoration progress is on youtube:
https://youtu.be/E1TULi8mrko?si=LkjxYOKW7MPcrwe5
https://youtu.be/gi-B6HgLtRE?si=_VDbsTUafxFV8894
https://youtu.be/AQ780opJZKk?si=jmPSEmxh6ecE3H8j

[Bob Carriere]

My Chev cab 11 is 03851........ probably the same week...

BC

....and also came from Petawawa late dispursal in 1946.....but a Chev.

*****?????? did Ford and Chev have separate serial number sequences or the vehicle number given by DND on receiving the vehicle....

[Jordan Baker]

Fantastic that you were able to locate its history. Hopefully a photograph of it during the war will turn up.

[Bob Carriere]

...building yourself a cargo box...Model???XYZ ... and a special tool box...??
...and searching for proper rims and tires....


Looking forward to seeing what color markings the 2nd "medium well" done Rgt use to carry..... I might switch mine to that color..... showing imaginary RCASC color so far....... mine was an early orphan.... no blackout system and no marker lights on the front fenders...... with the front air intake but never retro fitted with the African warm weather hooks for the doors.

Bob C.

[Mike K]

Great project, and a very early example.

Being located in Canada , I guess you will be looking for a original 1A1 or 1A2 body to measure up . Then building your own 1A1 as I did for my C8 . The 1A1 body is straightforward to build except for: some of the panel folds are complicated and require a good skilled sheet metal fabricator, I looked around for ages until I found a chap who was skilled and knew how to do the job. The old style checker plate floor pattern I could not find anywhere, so I used a modern equivalent. I enrolled in a welding course at the local TAFE (trade school) and I used their metal fabricating equipment to make up many of the body parts.

I suspect that Ford Canada built their own 1A1 tubs. Does anyone know more ? The early Chev C8 1A1 tubs have a 'WD Beath' makers tag on them. I have noticed some differences in the Ford and Chev tubs so it seems that there was more than one builder.

I have the Chev type Beath 1A1 body drawings , these were measured from a original tub . The vehicle is now owned by Nick Bullock .

For some reason, F8 vehicles are scarce outside of Canada, a few , maybe less than ten ? remain in Europe and I know of only one survivor here in Aust. (Sydney). Keith Webb unearthed an old pic of a F8 taken down at the Warrnambool stock car race track in the 1960s so there were a few more around. Jim Benny got onto a F8 that is located in a remote Western N.S.W. region - but it is a unconfirmed sighting.

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob and Mike

Neil may be able to post about a box.

Gord

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Fantastic find and the right decision, Neil!

[Yeo.NT]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

My Chev cab 11 is 03851........ probably the same week...

BC

....and also came from Petawawa late dispursal in 1946.....but a Chev.

*****?????? did Ford and Chev have separate serial number sequences or the vehicle number given by DND on receiving the vehicle....

Bob,

I believe Serial Numbers were separate between ford/Chevy.

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Great project, and a very early example.

Being located in Canada , I guess you will be looking for a original 1A1 or 1A2 body to measure up . Then building your own 1A1 as I did for my C8 . The 1A1 body is straightforward to build except for: some of the panel folds are complicated and require a good skilled sheet metal fabricator, I looked around for ages until I found a chap who was skilled and knew how to do the job. The old style checker plate floor pattern I could not find anywhere, so I used a modern equivalent. I enrolled in a welding course at the local TAFE (trade school) and I used their metal fabricating equipment to make up many of the body parts.

I suspect that Ford Canada built their own 1A1 tubs. Does anyone know more ? The early Chev C8 1A1 tubs have a 'WD Beath' makers tag on them. I have noticed some differences in the Ford and Chev tubs so it seems that there was more than one builder.

I have the Chev type Beath 1A1 body drawings , these were measured from a original tub . The vehicle is now owned by Nick Bullock .

For some reason, F8 vehicles are scarce outside of Canada, a few , maybe less than ten ? remain in Europe and I know of only one survivor here in Aust. (Sydney). Keith Webb unearthed an old pic of a F8 taken down at the Warrnambool stock car race track in the 1960s so there were a few more around. Jim Benny got onto a F8 that is located in a remote Western N.S.W. region - but it is a unconfirmed sighting.

Mike

Dad was able to locate the correct cargo box for me a couple years ago when I was Latvia. When he sent me the link for the online ad, I am sure he could hear me across the globe yelling to buy it soonest.
As found it was beaten up, but complete with all the hard to find fittings, step and tailgate. I've lost the pictures dad sent of the restoration, if I remember the floor and the rear panels on either side of the tail gate is original.

[Bob Carriere]

.... at least you have a good pattern to work from......

Finding a knowledgeable and skilled metal fabricator who is less than 90 years old is a real challenge...... Our local fabricator impressed me last Summer when he scored big on older hydraulic presses....8 and 12 feet .

With no skilled operator available I took the plunge..... more steel was wasted with little results....... then found out he did not have the necessary dies.... available at $100 a foot.....so I scaled up top to a more expensive fabricator whop charged more but used unskilled teens to runt he machinery.... more steel wasted...... Thanks to Grant and a 12 pounds sledge hammer we did the necessary corrections. If I was to do it again I would use thinner gauge steel that can be worked on our own 4 foot brake and modify the build structure to accommodate the max width we can work on and hide some of the butt joints behind existing reinforcements. Those skills are now hard to come buy and the older bends/build sequence is not always feasible with modern equipment.

Cargo boxes may have been built by the original Ford/Chev fabricators but as they ramped up production to War time volume many small cottage industry subcontactors produced a lot of similar parts.... centrally assembled then bolted to a vehicle frame..... I used 3 similar 2B1 boxes and overall the measurements varied by a good 1/4 inch in width and/or length....... not to mention the twisting and bending due to post war abuse....

,,,,but having a rusted hard copy to work from as a pattern... is priceless......

Go for it..... as they don't make them anymore.

BC

[Bob Carriere]

....being available from Petawawa on the disposal of surplus trucks or while in service at the base.....???? I know mine (C15a) was purchased there in 1946 all the same price running with spare at $500..... and buyer got to choose..... and he had some kind of priority as a service center/blacksmith/mechanic and back road snow plow services....... they must have some vehicle registration or photo archives of some sort...

I would gladly change the RCASC colors now used if I could trace some RCA history.

BC

.... the above as nothing to do with my age !!!!!

[Ganmain Tony]

Well done Neil and Gordon - amazing find with the numbers, the body,

Right call to restore it to original...

Really looking forward to following this one on here...

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Yeo.NT

I believe Serial Numbers were separate between ford/Chevy.

Ah excellent. Nothing like having a original tub ! David Pope ( RIP) found a couple of original tubs, he also had the original canvas frame. Does anyone know where his collection went to ? http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...t=Andre&page=5

[Gordon Yeo]

When Neil gets home we can dig out some CMP box projects and post some pictures. He will be along here soon and he is the computer picture guy.

Gord

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

David Pope ( RIP) found a couple of original tubs, he also had the original canvas frame. Does anyone know where his collection went to ? http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...t=Andre&page=5

See this thread dating back to 2019: Estate Sale for member cletrac

[Yeo.NT]

Here is the progress we have made over the last 2 weeks. There were a few set backs with making replacement parts fit properly, but with what has been accomplished I am pleased. From the frame on the rotisserie, rebuilding the suspension and the entire brake system. Sitting on the axles, it's almost ready to install the Engine & Transmission.

The main hoop is only sitting in place to reference where brackets go and planning ahead to cab floor wood supports. More to follow

[Bob Carriere]

...... when everything is new or freshly painted and clean......

Nice work......

[Mike K]

That is a well organized and clean workshop !

Looks like Ford did a better job with the cab arch bars. The Cab 11 Chev. arch bars have a built-in misalignment PROBLEM, the GM factory arch bar jig must have been at fault. The drivers side is where the problem IS APPARENT.. Everything that bolts to the bar will not align up , a good amount of fettling is needed, you can see evidence of where the factory or somebody else has tried to improvise and do a quick 'fix', hammer marks are seen on the inner panel.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Excellent to see you guys are tackling the F8! and I agree with Mike.....a nice and roomy workshop is a blessing.

a good amount of fettling is needed, you can see evidence of where the factory or somebody else has tried to improvise and do a quick 'fix', hammer marks are seen on the inner panel.
11-01-24 18:24

My C8 even had some steel "shims" under some of the mounting points of the arch bars.

[Yeo.NT]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

That is a well organized and clean workshop !

Looks like Ford did a better job with the cab arch bars. The Cab 11 Chev. arch bars have a built-in misalignment PROBLEM, the GM factory arch bar jig must have been at fault. The drivers side is where the problem IS APPARENT.. Everything that bolts to the bar will not align up , a good amount of fettling is needed, you can see evidence of where the factory or somebody else has tried to improvise and do a quick 'fix', hammer marks are seen on the inner panel.

There is alignment issues with the Arch Bar, there are extra holes drilled and oblong one as well. This will be a “loosely bolt” it together until all panels are on

[Yeo.NT]

Moving forward at a walking pace, buts its progress!

I have the engine and transmission sitting in the chassis and of course there was some issues. I had to Frankenstien 2 transmission into one and it was a mad thrash to get it done in a day, I didn't get pictures.

Now that the engine is installed, its time to find out the clearance issues i'll have to deal with. As I am using the 1950s engine, the throttle and exhaust are my biggest issue so far. The right hand manifold/downpipe location will interfere with the clutch pedal, this will require the 1940s manifold or aftermarket performance headers to create the needed clearance.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Good to see your progress, Neil!

I also like watching your YouTube channel Tipperary Armouries
https://www.youtube.com/@TipperaryArmouries

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Gord / Neil

Do you need a different manifold for the right side.....earlier production......???

Begs to be asked will earlier production manifold fit older blocks>>>.

I am guessing you need a RH side manifold that connects to the under pipe that as the outlet closer towards the front????? small chance I may have one.....

Let me know if I can help........?

[Yeo.NT]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Gord / Neil

Do you need a different manifold for the right side.....earlier production......???

Begs to be asked will earlier production manifold fit older blocks>>>.

I am guessing you need a RH side manifold that connects to the under pipe that as the outlet closer towards the front????? small chance I may have one.....

Let me know if I can help........?

Yes, I do require said manifold. We will have to set up a time for me to visit maybe next weekend

[Bob Carriere]

Both, from different engines yesterday........ are exactly like yours,,,one more to check.....

Keep you fingers crossed......

[Yeo.NT]

During the restoration of my 8cwt, I’ve been trying to dig up information on the unit it was assigned to for pictures, service history and confirm what base it started its journey on. As it turns out in the 2nd Medium Regiment, War Diaries has confirmed its service with the Regiment in Petawawa.

[Bob Carriere]

Found my 3rd and last RH exhaust manifold and it is identical to the other two
I have and identical to yours as pictured on MLU....... why is the F8 so different........ I have a F15a rolling chassis and the exhaust outlet does clear the pedals...... is the frame of the F15 wider than the F8????

Good find on the regimental records........ how hard was it to find or search for the information......... such as 03851 for my C15a......? can a search be doen online???? or only by paper sifting onsite at the base???

Bob C

[Grant Bowker]

For what it's worth, "Ford Army parts Catalogue 1940-1942" SE39-42 reissued January 1942 lists all CMP Fords from F8 to F60H as using RH manifold 78-9430 and LH manifold 78-9431. No differences listed for weight of vehicle or number of driven wheels...

Here are links to a couple of previous MLU discussions of right hand Ford manifolds. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23472 http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11790

A quick google on the part number came up with several that seem to be for sale.

[Yeo.NT]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Found my 3rd and last RH exhaust manifold and it is identical to the other two
I have and identical to yours as pictured on MLU....... why is the F8 so different........ I have a F15a rolling chassis and the exhaust outlet does clear the pedals...... is the frame of the F15 wider than the F8????

Good find on the regimental records........ how hard was it to find or search for the information......... such as 03851 for my C15a......? can a search be doen online???? or only by paper sifting onsite at the base???

Bob C

The F8 is shorten 120” civilian truck chassis, so yes it different from the 15, 30 and 60 chassis.

The search for regimental diaries is fairly easy, if you have the correct unit to look up. 2 Medium Regiment from 1940-41 was later changed to 2nd Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment. This made it a little harder to find the original war diaries online at https://wartimes.ca/canadiana-heritage-war-diary-reels/

Just reading through the War Diaries and finding my truck mentioned is more of luck then anything, tho I am hoping get access to 27 Light Aid Detachment records I may find more information.

[Bob Carriere]

Did you use a civilian truck frame that your shortened or are ALL F8 shorten civilian frames????

Do you have a GOOD RH exhaust manifold the issue is that it will not fit due to your engine being a 50s issue???

Are you searching for "proof" that a special manifold did exist via MLU members with a F8 available for a photo.....?

David Moore had a F8 Ford and ran a V8...... since been sold but must be around Kingston somewhere and should be available for eyeballing...

Can you grind a section of your existing manifold and weld a flat with a plate to get by???

Bottom line F8 did have V8..... what did they use to circumvent the issue.....

Can play with the front engine mount to tilt the engine for a few mm of clearance.......

If you need a spare RH manifold I have a free one.......

Can you use a C8 frame..... I have a spare too......

Interesting dilemma!!!!

[Bob Carriere]

Did you use a civilian truck frame that your shortened or are ALL F8 shorten civilian frames????

Do you have a GOOD RH exhaust manifold the issue is that it will not fit due to your engine being a 50s issue???

Are you searching for "proof" that a special manifold did exist via MLU members with a F8 available for a photo.....?

David Moore had a F8 Ford and ran a V8...... since been sold but must be around Kingston somewhere and should be available for eyeballing...

Can you grind a section of your existing manifold and weld a flat with a plate to get by???

Bottom line F8 did have V8..... what did they use to circumvent the issue.....

Can play with the front engine mount to tilt the engine for a few mm of clearance.......

If you need a spare RH manifold I have a free one.......

Can you use a C8 frame..... I have a spare too......

Interesting dilemna!!!!

Found a pic. of a 32-36 V8 manifold...... it dumps out at the end........