Besa

[Lynn Eades]

Michael, I believe the Maori Battalion Carrier picture shows a 50 cal. We had some 200+ Valentine tanks during WWII and they were fitted with Besa M.G.s.
Maybe you are referring to a different photo?

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Michael, I believe the Maori Battalion Carrier picture shows a 50 cal. We had some 200+ Valentine tanks during WWII and they were fitted with Besa M.G.s.
Maybe you are referring to a different photo?

Hello Lynn,
yes, thanks. I know we discussed this previously: these fighters had been victims of fratricide, now shown with enhanced allied recognition symbol.

Imagine the signature the aircraft Browning could produce !

[maple_leaf_eh]

One of my favorite YouTubers is a PhD historian Mark Felton. I've mentioned him here before. Not long ago I rewatched a piece he did on the introduction of the Centurion in spring 1945. He pronounced BESA as Bay-za. The only other form I'd ever heard was Bee-za. Anyone know the correct way?

[Tony Smith]

I've only heard it as "Bee-Sah", but have noted that it seems to be written as BESA, not Besa, as if it is an acronym. However, like BREN, it has become a word of it's own. The name is derived from the initials of the Birmingham Small Arms factory, BSA, who licence built the Czech designed ZB53, so it is unlikely to be "Bay-Sa".

[Ron Pier]

I've owned and ridden BSA motorcycles all my riding life. Amongst the community they have always been referred to affectionately as Beeza's

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smal...allarms_id=221

Ron

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Michael, I believe the Maori Battalion Carrier picture shows a 50 cal.

Both of the Carriers in Michael’s photos have 7.92 mm Besas, by the looks of it, and the one pictures from the right front has (I think) a Vickers machine gun in the hull front instead of a Bren.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Wartime, or any historical, pronunciation can be interesting and not always what it is today. When you listen to old films or news stories you often hear a weird way of saying something, but is this just the reporter taking on a reporter's persona? You have to admit there was a very peculiar way they spoke.

One case in point, our famous (and still surviving) Tribal class destroyer HMCS Haida is now pronounced 'Hi-duh' but apparently throughout her service she was pronounced 'Hey-duh'.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Wartime, or any historical, pronunciation can be interesting and not always what it is today. When you listen to old films or news stories you often hear a weird way of saying something, but is this just the reporter taking on a reporter's persona? You have to admit there was a very peculiar way they spoke.

One case in point, our famous (and still surviving) Tribal class destroyer HMCS Haida is now pronounced 'Hi-duh' but apparently throughout her service she was pronounced 'Hey-duh'.

I reckon Canadians would call it a Bee-za-eh?

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Wartime, or any historical, pronunciation can be interesting and not always what it is today.

And that confuses a lot of people, when they don’t seem to realise pronunciation shifts over time.

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

One case in point, our famous (and still surviving) Tribal class destroyer HMCS Haida is now pronounced 'Hi-duh' but apparently throughout her service she was pronounced 'Hey-duh'.

That one, technically speaking, is easy enough: /ˈhaɪdə/ — or, in non-IPA English phonetics: HI-duh, like the original pronunciation

[Lynn Eades]

Jakko, for the record Michael posted at 04.31 without photos.
I posted at 07.25 not knowing what photo/s he was referring to.
Michael edited his post at 08.04 and I assume that's when the photos went up.
You posted at 22.56 and without close scrutiny, would not have noticed.

[stephen crowhurst]

It looks like all the photos show Besa's MkIII as they do not have any lightning holes along the sides. I would rather carry a Vickers tripod around all day than a Besa.

[Anthony Kellett]

Thanks to all who have viewed and/or responded to this thread. Edwin Meinsma, the Dutch historian who sent the original photo of the "B"/7th Recce carrier with a Besa, has since sent another. This one, from two days later and in a different location, shows another 7RR carrier with Besa. This vehicle is most likely from "C" Sqn. If so, this improvization may not have been down to a single fan of Besas (Lt Pavey) but may have been more widely done in the unit. The war diary of the 62nd LAD, attached to 7th Recce, is not online, so I propose to visit the archives to see if the war diary can shed more light on this question. Tony