CMP shipping methods

[Tony Smith]

"...-" in Morse Code is "V". So just a stylised design for a logo, or is it meant to mean something?

Ford were always proud of their V8 engines and took every opportunity to boast.

[Tony Smith]

Of other interest, how were those large stacks of crates managed?

They don't appear to have underneath slots for forklifts and of course, they don't have the locking holes on each corner of the modern sea container.

Stacked by crane and ropes?

[Mike Cecil]

dit dit dit dah (...-) was a well used 'phrase' of the Morse V that stood for V for Victory. Nice compilation of its widespread use here:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/where...tory-come-from


Looks like Ford took the opportunity to link the popular V for Victory with the Ford V8 by adding the '8'.


Mike

[Bob Carriere]

Trying to understand the building sequence for the GM C15 and C15a sometimes in 1940 and our various serial numbers.

David Hayward I believe had indicated, if memory serves me right, that the actual production started in the last few days of March 1940 but were all stamped as April 40.......

So according to the first shipment documents posted by Colin the first load that was in process of being built and move dfwon to Halifax to catch the boat was may 27th 1940.

He had also indicated that the first off the line were C8 and C15 in the 4x2 version and that the C15a had started later possibly early Fall 1940.......

Not sure how the serial numbers were allocated..... one sequencial list of numbers for all CMPs or by individual size such as a block of numbersfor C8 and a separate block of numbers for C15 and one for the C15a....and so on.

With the recent surfacing of very early C15 in the X000, 3 digits, out West and some other in the 11xx and mine in the 3851, can't remember the serial number for Alex de W. ..........are we any closer to determining a better approx. date of manufactoring for the 4x4 series....... for example my 3851 had the front air vents, no hot weather hooks on the dash, no web stops limiters on the doors, no rubber marker lights on the front fenders but still relying on the small bulb inside the head light box, no water expansion tank on the fender and no convoy light on the frame for the rear axle..... typically an early model that was kept in Canada for local use and training purposes...... soon to be designated obsolete.....

Are there later shipping documents for late Summer shipments or nay records kept for those shipments that never made it across the big Pond???

In fact, was Ford using a dedicated series for their vehicles...... and having seen assembly lines which showed a mix of civilian and CMP models being put together did they use different serial ## which begs to be asked when were the serial numbers assigned to a vehicle..... when the vehicle was scheduled for the assembly line or after it left the line running....easily done today with computers but back then would have been a paper mess with multi carbon copies.!!!!

Comment!!!!!!!

[Colin Alford]

Bob,

Here are documents which detail the original production forecast from 08 Feb 40, and the initial shipping plan from 15 Feb 40. I haven’t found any documents which detail if there were changes to the initial plan.(images from microfilm C-5142, images 444 and 486 https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...reel_c5142/444


The 27 May date mentioned above, was after the “First flight” SKD shipments had arrived in the UK, and after the subsequent CKD shipments started arriving in the UK, and they experienced increased challenges with the assembly ( and missing parts) of the CKD shipments, and the staff in the UK requested a reversion to SKD packaging.

I haven’t found any documents which detail the start of F15A/C15A production.

Regarding Ford serial numbers: initially Ford CMPs did not have ID plates, and they only used the engine number to identify the vehicle. Later production received serial numbers and ID plates.

Regarding Chev serial numbers: Attached are images from the C15, and C30 parts lists. With the noted serial numbers for new parts being the same between vehicle types, I am inclined to think that the 5 digit serial number was cumulative throughout the year regardless of vehicle type (preceding 5 digits being year and model number). (Interesting side note: the serial numbers seem to indicate production of 11 cab, then 12 cab in 1940, a reversion to 11 cab at the beginning of 1941, then the complete switch to 12 cab after vehicle 5003 in 1941. This might only indicate some pilot model 12 cabs in late 1940)

[Colin Alford]

Hanno,

While above it is mentioned that TUP was a shipping method for CMPs, I have not yet found any period Canadian documents that use that term.

So far, I have only encountered “Complete unboxed” (for a few pilot models), SKD (or S.K.D. depending on the document), CKD, SUP, MUP and MUP Special.

Here are some images from the C60X assembly instructions which give a definition for MUP.

A320BA96-1386-4C6C-A68A-2EA47EDC5F55.jpg D6C36797-F430-4016-BE89-78A6550A6E80.jpg
4C425217-93FE-45CF-8E03-473098EDD173.jpg A52631F6-82AC-4130-947A-25EB65FE7B53.jpg

[Colin Alford]

In June/July 2021, Mariano shared some scans of Ford Assembly instructions for various vehicles.

Here are a couple images of the cover pages for CMPs to show SUP and MUP Special.

7E6F0CBC-1E20-4384-8417-A9B32CACBD90.jpeg 09AC9D86-FBF1-46FB-8B16-7364546D4A23.jpeg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Mariano & Colin,

Thanks for all the interesting material.

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

While above it is mentioned that TUP was a shipping method for CMPs, I have not yet found any period Canadian documents that use that term.

So far, I have only encountered “Complete unboxed” (for a few pilot models), SKD (or S.K.D. depending on the document), CKD, SUP, MUP and MUP Special.

Here are some images from the C60X assembly instructions which give a definition for MUP.

Interestingly, while they state this is a Multi Unit Pack, I guess in fact this would be a Single Unit Pack as the crate contains one complete chassis/cab. The chassis/cab is clearly Semi or Partly Knocked Down, CKD or PKD.

I think the confusion originates from combining automotive industry and military logistics practices and definitions.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

"...-" in Morse Code is "V". So just a stylised design for a logo, or is it meant to mean something?

Ford were always proud of their V8 engines and took every opportunity to boast.

"V for Victory" no doubt - see https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/where...tory-come-from

[maple_leaf_eh]

The long wooden crate reminded me of two things.

There are wartime Youtubes showing unskilled workers cracking open similar wooden crates containing US made warplanes. The sequence of work included which side to open, and where to lay it as a work surface, then which parts the swarm of unskilled labourers removed next so the skilled assembler could carry on.

The other recollection was from 1988-89 when I was a clerk at the Logistics wing of Force Mobile Command Headquarters. I was mail and file clerk for a dozen or fifteen staff officers, and everyone was preparing for Exercise RV89 in Wainwright. The concept of moving large numbers of vehicles across the country was one topic I'd ask about. Someone or somehow I found the contemporary ship loading manual with its diagrams. The part I remember was the fold-out drawings were Liberty ships with open holds and deck cranes. Roll-0n Roll-Off shipping was well-known and the army was using them, but the manuals hadn't caught up.

[m606paz]

GM Camo Shipping crates

[m606paz]

More GM pictures

[Jordan Baker]

I believe the 2nd picture in the post above answers how the crates were picked up.