lrdg pilot car bed

[Scott Cacciamani]

Has anyone investigated the beds on the early lrdg Ford 15cwt pilot cars? I can not see the side panel lines of a 1940 Ford pickup. All photos are poor, but I’m wondering now if the entire box was made up.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Interesting question. I always thought this was a commercial pick-up bed, altered for use by the LRDG by adding the boxes etc.

Maybe it isn't a US market bed, but a type of bed built locally for the local civilian market? It doesn't have any hallmarks of being a military bed originally.

[Scott Cacciamani]

I never noticed it before. No clue maybe a trailer bed? The ford bed is pretty strong don't know why they would go to all that trouble.

[Scott Cacciamani]

I am drawing out this nonstandard bed which seems to have elements of a British trailer. I am confused about the 2”x4” looking things which are on all for corners of the bed. I think they are in fact short pieces of 2x4’s slide in a bracket with a bottom stop. Longer boards could be used for a canopy. They may also help keep the sand channels from rubbing against the truck. I could use anyone’s opinion on what these are as i am guessing

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Scott........ what 2x4?????

I can see the sand channels being used judiciously.....I enlarged the pics but could not see anything that looks vaguely 2x4 in.

Civilians Cargo boxes of that period were pretty well all built of 18 gauge steel with floors one gauge more......military boxes of the 40's were 16 g. sides 12G. floor.....some tailgate and side drop panels 14 G.....but then everything military was overdone...... if the Ford Ute was cobbled together by local Cairo boys..... very familiar with more weight in the deserts is more gas and more diggin' out..... they would have opted for the light stuff and save weight for ammo and water..... Any other photos to look at....

Bob C

[Scott Cacciamani]

Thanks, here is another photo but not much better. Im looking at the post just before the tailgate end.

[Lynn Eades]

Are you talking about canopy stantions / stauntions? The things the canopy bows land in? For example, take a look at a military half ton Dodge cargo bed. Three down each side for three canopy bows.

[Scott Cacciamani]

yes that was my thought. i just wanted to have someone confirm, but i was thinking it was more like a wood bow in a bracket as pictured and not a stake pocket like on a comericial pickup.
thanks

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another 1940 Ford Pickup, modified for desert use.

The more I look at these type of trucks the more I am convinced these have standard pickup beds, albeit modified.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Via Brendan O'Carroll: "Major Clayton's Ford V8 pilot car "Te Rangi" after capture by the Italians after the battle of Jebel Sherif in Jan 1941. Also captured was his NZ crew Wink Adams and Clarrie Roderick."

[Scott Cacciamani]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's another 1940 Ford Pickup, modified for desert use.

The more I look at these type of trucks the more I am convinced these have standard pickup beds, albeit modified.

Attachment 131102 Attachment 131103

The bed in this photo does look standard. I can see the panel line. I'm not sure about the others. I have decieded to make a bed from scratch. I Have most of the feature but will have to try and scale some photos.
thanks scott

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Cacciamani

I never noticed it before. No clue maybe a trailer bed? The Ford bed is pretty strong don't know why they would go to all that trouble.

These were not US made vehicles. They were made in Canada, assembled in the UK and shipped to Egypt for the commercial market there.

So fitting a US made bed would actually be going to a lot of unnecessary trouble.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

. They were made in Canada, assembled in the UK and shipped to Egypt for the commercial market there.

So fitting a US made bed would actually be going to a lot of unnecessary trouble.

I agree with Tony, I think you are barking up the wrong tree looking at US style pickup bodies as a reference. Some Canadian made military vehicle CKD kits were shipped directly to Egypt from Canada and assembled in Egypt. In that case these kits would have been purchased through British orders. From memory the T212 Dodge was one such case.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I agree with Tony, I think you are barking up the wrong tree looking at US style pickup bodies as a reference. Some Canadian made military vehicle CKD kits were shipped directly to Egypt from Canada and assembled in Egypt. In that case these kits would have been purchased through British orders. From memory the T212 Dodge was one such case.

Except that they were not made to military spec and orders - see Tony’s remark above. So it must have been some sort of standard civilian bed, either of North American (US and Canada) or local origin. But it has lots of features pointing towards a pickup bed, IMHO

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Scott Cacciamani

I am drawing out this nonstandard bed which seems to have elements of a British trailer. I am confused about the 2”x4” looking things which are on all for corners of the bed. I think they are in fact short pieces of 2x4’s slide in a bracket with a bottom stop. Longer boards could be used for a canopy. They may also help keep the sand channels from rubbing against the truck. I could use anyone’s opinion on what these are as i am guessing

Scott, I’ve merged your bed sides thread with this one as it is about the same subject. Here’s hoping you find enough information for a faithful replica.

[Scott Cacciamani]

Thanks again from all i was locked out of the site for a few days. It is still a problem for me, not seeing the embossed lines, but i have come around to Hanno's thought that it
is a standard bed which has it's lines hidden by all the add on bracktes etc. It does not have the original tailgate however and i don't know why they added conopy mounts at the front and rear of the bed when a standared bed has them build it.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Scott

Don't let any one deter you from building a pilot Ford truck. Most information is very scant and in the fever of war if they could make it fit, work or serve the purpose then it was great. It's your truck as you would have built it in Cairo in 1940 with whatever you could scrounge...

Captivated with the North African campaign and the LRDG I have acquired and read most of the books floating around.

My conclusion is that local workshops, military or private, were pushed by a few individuals ( Badnold) to modify what they could find.... in the rush of war not too many detailed records / photos were kept. All we know for sure is they purchased, acquired or liberated various vehicles....most of which were found on location, previously delivered in some degree of knock down configuration for eventual selling locally with local made mostly wooden bodies. The military used what they could find that came either as a bare cowl frame power train.... some cowls had a full civilian wind shield frame that may have been cut up. I would say that the initial vehicles were 99% cowl only whether GM or Ford........some 3/4 ton pick up may have slipped in.... so most would have had a wooden bench with,if lucky a one piece coil spring seat similar to a pick up...... and the cargo box would depend on what steel or wood was available,,,,always trying to keep them simle and aslight as possible...... surely parts from damaged vehicleswere salvaged from both allied and captured vehicle dumps.......

do your own design based on the frame you have.....welded/bolted or mixed
be inspired by the technology of the day in other documented trucks and trailers from early 39/40..... you can't go wrong and no one can prove your wrong either.....alot of these vehicles were unique and based on what was available and/or where they were going... some woody station wagons made topless...car into crude UTE models

I have acquired a 1940 WA 1533...... 3 spare cabs.... also scored a C15 2x4 for the special beam front axle, Have a frame reinforcement plat for a template, 16 inch rims which I will modify to 8 inches wide to take the STA Chevron 10:50x16 and all kind of factory and book pictures to be guided from...... it will represent the early local made LRDG trucks....been collecting Gerry, USA British and Cdn fuel containers.......assorted back packs......will have assorted Lee Enfield Mark 1 rifles ( from the first world war old stock)fully de-activated and NO machine guns due to stupid regulations.........

My box will be hand made, welded to look like gas welding,,,,,copied loosely from 4x2 1942 model with the 3B4 box but will be shorter to mach my 1533 frame..... it will include cheater wooden boards and home made sand channels.....

One thing is holding me back.....can't find a good set of 39 or 40 front (Chev or GM)fenders to save my soul!!!!

Fee free to contact me at home at RAC1812 hat AOL.COM.... it is far easier to forward/share photos in large quantity.

Bob C.


PS,,,, steel repro rear Ford fenders are readily vailable to install and futher modify.....ie openned up,.....

PPS 2........ apparently the GoodYear Tire Cy is now making or has made a recent batch of 900 x 16 All Weather Traction ( sand ) tires...... selling from $400 each to some one gauging at $999. each............... AND they are not MOT approved......BUT they do look good..... meant for golf and gardening.....

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Cacciamani

Thanks again from all i was locked out of the site for a few days. It is still a problem for me, not seeing the embossed lines, but i have come around to Hanno's thought that it
is a standard bed which has it's lines hidden by all the add on bracktes etc. It does not have the original tailgate however and i don't know why they added conopy mounts at the front and rear of the bed when a standared bed has them build it.

But it is not necessarily as standard US bed, in fact highly unlikely it would be.

It may be the standard commercial Canadian, Standard UK or the standard local Egyptian product for those markets. It does not have to look anything like a US product. In the 1930's so much global vehicle production involved local content that it would be impractical for shipping and uneconomic to ship a bed complete with a vehicle chassis when a locally sourced factory standard item would be cheaper (and possibly more suited to local market demand).

[Mike K]

Try and find a copy of this book. The author, a Canadian airman, drove a Ford pickup for the SAS in Egypt. Although not detailed, there are a few pics of the Ford. He met David Stirling at a remote desert base hundreds of miles behind the lines. Quite a good read.

[Scott Cacciamani]

I will pick it up thanks, Mike

[Scott Cacciamani]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Scott

Don't let any one deter you from building a pilot Ford truck. Most information is very scant and in the fever of war if they could make it fit, work or serve the purpose then it was great. It's your truck as you would have built it in Cairo in 1940 with whatever you could scrounge...

Captivated with the North African campaign and the LRDG I have acquired and read most of the books floating around.

My conclusion is that local workshops, military or private, were pushed by a few individuals ( Badnold) to modify what they could find.... in the rush of war not too many detailed records / photos were kept. All we know for sure is they purchased, acquired or liberated various vehicles....most of which were found on location, previously delivered in some degree of knock down configuration for eventual selling locally with local made mostly wooden bodies. The military used what they could find that came either as a bare cowl frame power train.... some cowls had a full civilian wind shield frame that may have been cut up. I would say that the initial vehicles were 99% cowl only whether GM or Ford........some 3/4 ton pick up may have slipped in.... so most would have had a wooden bench with,if lucky a one piece coil spring seat similar to a pick up...... and the cargo box would depend on what steel or wood was available,,,,always trying to keep them simle and aslight as possible...... surely parts from damaged vehicleswere salvaged from both allied and captured vehicle dumps.......

do your own design based on the frame you have.....welded/bolted or mixed
be inspired by the technology of the day in other documented trucks and trailers from early 39/40..... you can't go wrong and no one can prove your wrong either.....alot of these vehicles were unique and based on what was available and/or where they were going... some woody station wagons made topless...car into crude UTE models

I have acquired a 1940 WA 1533...... 3 spare cabs.... also scored a C15 2x4 for the special beam front axle, Have a frame reinforcement plat for a template, 16 inch rims which I will modify to 8 inches wide to take the STA Chevron 10:50x16 and all kind of factory and book pictures to be guided from...... it will represent the early local made LRDG trucks....been collecting Gerry, USA British and Cdn fuel containers.......assorted back packs......will have assorted Lee Enfield Mark 1 rifles ( from the first world war old stock)fully de-activated and NO machine guns due to stupid regulations.........

My box will be hand made, welded to look like gas welding,,,,,copied loosely from 4x2 1942 model with the 3B4 box but will be shorter to mach my 1533 frame..... it will include cheater wooden boards and home made sand channels.....

One thing is holding me back.....can't find a good set of 39 or 40 front (Chev or GM)fenders to save my soul!!!!

Fee free to contact me at home at RAC1812 hat AOL.COM.... it is far easier to forward/share photos in large quantity.

Bob C.


PS,,,, steel repro rear Ford fenders are readily vailable to install and futher modify.....ie openned up,.....

PPS 2........ apparently the GoodYear Tire Cy is now making or has made a recent batch of 900 x 16 All Weather Traction ( sand ) tires...... selling from $400 each to some one gauging at $999. each............... AND they are not MOT approved......BUT they do look good..... meant for golf and gardening.....

Thanks Bob. I will reach out to you. Would like to follow your build. I have the 9.00x 16 diamond thread goodyear tires for your truck new.

[Scott Cacciamani]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Scott

Don't let any one deter you from building a pilot Ford truck. Most information is very scant and in the fever of war if they could make it fit, work or serve the purpose then it was great. It's your truck as you would have built it in Cairo in 1940 with whatever you could scrounge...

Captivated with the North African campaign and the LRDG I have acquired and read most of the books floating around.

My conclusion is that local workshops, military or private, were pushed by a few individuals ( Badnold) to modify what they could find.... in the rush of war not too many detailed records / photos were kept. All we know for sure is they purchased, acquired or liberated various vehicles....most of which were found on location, previously delivered in some degree of knock down configuration for eventual selling locally with local made mostly wooden bodies. The military used what they could find that came either as a bare cowl frame power train.... some cowls had a full civilian wind shield frame that may have been cut up. I would say that the initial vehicles were 99% cowl only whether GM or Ford........some 3/4 ton pick up may have slipped in.... so most would have had a wooden bench with,if lucky a one piece coil spring seat similar to a pick up...... and the cargo box would depend on what steel or wood was available,,,,always trying to keep them simle and aslight as possible...... surely parts from damaged vehicleswere salvaged from both allied and captured vehicle dumps.......

do your own design based on the frame you have.....welded/bolted or mixed
be inspired by the technology of the day in other documented trucks and trailers from early 39/40..... you can't go wrong and no one can prove your wrong either.....alot of these vehicles were unique and based on what was available and/or where they were going... some woody station wagons made topless...car into crude UTE models

I have acquired a 1940 WA 1533...... 3 spare cabs.... also scored a C15 2x4 for the special beam front axle, Have a frame reinforcement plat for a template, 16 inch rims which I will modify to 8 inches wide to take the STA Chevron 10:50x16 and all kind of factory and book pictures to be guided from...... it will represent the early local made LRDG trucks....been collecting Gerry, USA British and Cdn fuel containers.......assorted back packs......will have assorted Lee Enfield Mark 1 rifles ( from the first world war old stock)fully de-activated and NO machine guns due to stupid regulations.........

My box will be hand made, welded to look like gas welding,,,,,copied loosely from 4x2 1942 model with the 3B4 box but will be shorter to mach my 1533 frame..... it will include cheater wooden boards and home made sand channels.....

One thing is holding me back.....can't find a good set of 39 or 40 front (Chev or GM)fenders to save my soul!!!!

Fee free to contact me at home at RAC1812 hat AOL.COM.... it is far easier to forward/share photos in large quantity.

Bob C.


PS,,,, steel repro rear Ford fenders are readily vailable to install and futher modify.....ie openned up,.....

PPS 2........ apparently the GoodYear Tire Cy is now making or has made a recent batch of 900 x 16 All Weather Traction ( sand ) tires...... selling from $400 each to some one gauging at $999. each............... AND they are not MOT approved......BUT they do look good..... meant for golf and gardening.....

went to send goodyear photos but your email address is not going through.

[Bob Carriere]

try...... RAC1812@aol.com


You must be wet with all that Winter rain..... here it is blowing snow like it will never stop.......

Cheers

[Scott Cacciamani]

2 degrees now. send you some photos in your box know.

[Mike K]

Higher resolution pic

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/d...stom_att_1=emu

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/d...stom_att_1=emu

[Scott Cacciamani]

thanks, i was thinking about buying copies of several photos from them hoping they would be even better.

[Dave Newcomb]

Fordbarn.com A site used by many Early Ford V8er's, and members or the International Early Ford V8 Club. Dave

[Scott Cacciamani]

been there, thanks