LRDG Ford F30

[Charlie Down]

I've hopefully become involved in 2 LRDG Ford F30 builds within 24 hours, on opposite sides of the World.
I know quite a bit about LRDG Chevrolet 1533X2s, and have picked up knowledge along the way about the Fords and the modifications that were made to them. One of the trucks will be a Y Patrol Wireless vehicle and the other hasn't yet been narrowed down, but will most likely be a R or T Patrol truck based on where its being built.
I saw Ian Chard last week, a local LRDG historian and son of Harry Chard who was in Y Patrol, and nicked a load of new photos and information which with all my other research and photos I have a good knowledge of what modification are needed.

• 134 1/4" chassis
• 3A1 steel body
• Chevrolet Axles (Ford axle production was delayed and so early Ford F30s were fitted with Chevrolet Banjo axles)
• Condenser on Drivers side step
• Sand mat racks
• Sand Channel racks
• Rifle clips
• Fire extinguishers
• Morris truck Aero screens (optional)
• Removal of upper bonnet/hood panels
• Heat insulation around drivers footwell?
• Sun or aero compass mount
• 3A1 body moved back 12"/300mm to put Centre of gravity over rear axle and 2 spare wheel racks between cab and body on some trucks.
• 10.5 - 16 wheels/ tyres.

Wireless truck

• 2 plywood compartments behind 3A1 RHS fold down side panel for No11 set and Philips 635 receiver.
• Aerial post
• Windom aerial poles stowed between chassis rails under body

What I need to clarify

1. 3A1 dimensions and details
2. Was a Charging switch panel fitted to the wireless trucks? (feature on 1533X2 trucks)
3. Was a PTO Compressor fitted to any of the LRDG Ford F30s
4. Was a heavy duty radiator fitted?
5. What other modifications are known or possible -heavy duty engine mounts? Uprated fan or air filter?

The aim is to make the trucks as accurate as possible using all the latest research and information. I will post any updates and most likely request further information.
Thanks in advance.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Charlie,

Good to hear you are involved in these projects, it will ensure utmost accuracy

Originally Posted by Charlie Down

What I need to clarify

1. 3A1 dimensions and details
2. Was a Charging switch panel fitted to the wireless trucks? (feature on 1533X2 trucks)
3. Was a PTO Compressor fitted to any of the LRDG Ford F30s
4. Was a heavy duty radiator fitted?
5. What other modifications are known or possible -heavy duty engine mounts? Uprated fan or air filter?

Re. 1) Attached is the entry in Clive Law's Drive to Victory on the standardised 3A1 all steel body with hinged sides which were fitted to the subject F30 trucks. Basic dimensions are shown.

Re. 4) 5) As these F30 CMP trucks were built for military use I think there were no variants with heavy duty components as an option.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

PS: if anyone is looking for a suitable Ford F30 truck for a LRDG project, Rick Cove in Australia has (had?) one for sale. See http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31922

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

PS: if anyone is looking for a suitable Ford F30 truck for a LRDG project, Rick Cove in Australia has (had?) one for sale. See http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31922

Yes Hanno it is still for sale.

I have dropped the price even more, trying to find a home for it. AUD $3,000.00.

Thanks for mentioning it.
Cheers Rick.

[Charlie Down]

Hi Hanno,
Thanks for confirming that information.
I'm still on the hunt for evidence that they MAY have fitted some trucks with PTO compressors. As they were so keen to have them fitted to the Chevy 1533X2s, I'm thinking that they may have had previous experience of the pumps on other trucks. As it only takes a competent mechanic 30 minutes (allegedly!) to fit one there is every possibility that they trialled them on some Ford F30s. No evidence yet, but it makes sense.
The nice advantage of the LRDG F30s over the Chevy1533X2s is that one still exists in the desert in pretty good condition. I've managed to get 20 photos of that truck (L4406114) and they provide loads of interesting details for the projects. However I'm after any other photos on the basis too many are better than not enough!
I'll post the photos I have for discussion purposes, although I can't remember where I got them from, so apologies for that!

[Charlie Down]

Reference photos for discussion

[Charlie Down]

Reference photos for discussion

[Charlie Down]

Reference photos for discussion

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Charlie Down

I'll post the photos I have for discussion purposes, although I can't remember where I got them from, so apologies for that!

They came from Kuno Gross originally, see this thread http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=16017
and WWII time warp: Long Range Desert Group vehicle abandoned in the desert - https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/...55928/?edg-c=1
and "THE DESERT GHOST" https://www.keymilitary.com/article/desert-ghost

[Bob Carriere]

Good Luck Charlie.

do you have picture(s) of the F30 with the cargo box relocated backwards to allow better weight distribution......... I believe the original 3A1 box already exceeded the frame length.....

....and in your posting no 5.....second pictures...... it is worthy to note that the sheet metal ....inner skin of the nose part.... is bolted all around on the top surface.....was that a GM Holden "touch" ......????? as my experience with the cab 11 and 12 shows this part a one piece zigzag shape........ one on each side.......or was that a field modification that would make servicing the engine much easier.... particularly the early cab 11....... or maybe just standard on all Fords????

Cheers

[Charlie Down]

Hi Bob,
Attached is a photo of a side view of the 3A1 body moved back 12"/300mm with twin spare wheels between cab and body. The tool boxes look really close to the front of the wheels. They started doing this modification in late 1941 on some trucks, then the Chevrolet 1533X2s arrived and the Fords were 'retired'. After severe losses in September 1942 during the big raids on Barce and Tobruk, the LRDG were running out of trucks and started re-issuing Fords to some of the Patrols to allow them to operate. Some Patrols were fielded with only F30's at this time. The Fords by this time were a mess and lots didn't even make it from the base workshops to the LRDG camp without breaking down (this was after they were completely overhauled!), At this time more F30's were modified with the 3A1 body being moved back, but still they were the less common version seen.
My detailed knowledge of CMP's is still developing, so the short answer to the question about the inner engine compartment panel is I have no idea! However I am learning quickly (I hope).

As part of the update, one of the trucks was being sold as a F30, but turns out to be a F60L with 12 cab. That is now going to be completed as a LRDG Heavy section 3 ton truck with cab, hoops and tarp, standard LRDG condenser, sand mats and racks and most likely long sand channels. Might get an external spare wheel mount too. Not aware of any other LRDG Heavy Section trucks, but should be a nice, and overdue, addition to the LRDG range.

[Bob Carriere]

The beauty of the LRDG is they were all unique with all kinds of field modifications or appendages to fit particular needs or availability of parts.

Your pictures have answered my question.... the box were moved on the frame but not redesigned....... typical expedient field modifications.

I just finished getting my 8000 pounds Massey tractor unstuck using USA surplus metal runway perforated panels..... they do work in mud at least!!!!

Cheers

PS...... the learning about CMP is a never ending project and sharing info is the greatest part of MLU.
...and can I learn from you the dimensions of that large condenser tank????......... would make a good beer cooler!!!!!!

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

...and can I learn from you the dimensions of that large condenser tank????......... would make a good beer cooler!!!!!!

At a very rough approximation: height from the step/running board to about 2" above the cab floor and diameter about 2/3 the distance from back of cab to door frame opening. Note that the end construction of the condenser is simpler than the "standard production" model - a small single lip turned down and soldered, not a rolled tin can construction with depressed center. Much simpler to repro if you want to do so.

[lynx42]

This is the 1940 Ford F30S I have For Sale. It is a very early one with the Chev diffs front and rear.





The Chassis is straight.



It still has it's original fuel tanks.



Even the lack of wear on the rubber pedals point out it hasn't had a hard life.


The engine turns over on the crank and it rolls along OK.

Due to my ongoing health problems it is one I will not be restoring.

Many more photos available.

[Charlie Down]

Here's what I've got, based on various photos. Bearing in mind there seems to be some variation with thinner/ taller and shorter/ wider versions. This is the version with the breather tube which doesn't seem to be always fitted. The drawing is for a Chevrolet 1533X2 and is incomplete, missing the mount as I don't have the details yet to be happy enough to draw them. Also there seems to be variation in mounts with some better braced against the body work with an extra bracket, most likely due to the condenser swaying forwards and backwards, especially during cross country driving , causing metal fatigue of the earlier and simpler mount. Hope that helps. No known images of the bottom, I've presumed it was flat and featureless, but not currently 100% about that as I've never seen a photo of the bottom.
First photo shows a Chevy 1533X2 with braced mount, breather tube and flat top
Second is on a Chevy 1311X3 and has a rim around the top.
Third photo shows a Chevy 1533X2 with an earlier simpler mount and a taller thinner can.
Bear in mind we are talking about the LRDG, so nothing is set in stone!

[Bob Carriere]

..... makes one wonder what kind of ready made container they used or modified for the condenser.... so dimensions are not critical.........

Thanks again.