Wanted: WS19 Control Box - Braided cable

[Tim Bell]

Dear all

I am looking for the Braided flex-Conduit used to connect the following for the WS19 in a tank.

• Commander Control box to turret terminal box
• Driver junction box to hull terminal box

As per photos (apologies to Patrick for pinching one of his nice photos to illustrate this)




If anyone has any for sale, with or without the WS19 boxes, please let me know.

Many thanks

Tim

[Jordan Baker]

Do you have the ZA numbers?

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

Do you have the ZA numbers?

Jordan

Connectors 4 Point No 41 - ZA/CAN/BR/10512

Connectors 5 Point No 14 - ZA/CAN/BR/10513







NB - The last image is edited to reflect the Firefly installation.

Thanks

Tim

[Patrick Johnson]

Hi Tim,
Glad my photo can illustrate your "wish list" of cables for your Firefly project. I do wish you well and hope you can find them. I got my complete set of Sherman WS19 wiring off eBay about 10 years ago out of Nevada, U.S.A. I consider myself very lucky for getting the set-up, as most of the wiring likely would have remained in the tanks when they were scrapped (just my opinion, no facts being stated here). I did see another set of wiring for the Sherman being sold by a Dutch collector about 5 years ago, and let Adrian Barrell know it was available as he was looking for a set too. Unfortunately there was a mix-up with auction times and he never did get it, it sold to someone else. I've yet to see another one surface. All this to say is that I think your best best to find one is likely going to be out of Holland, as this was likely the largest congregation of Sherman tanks at the time of turn-over to the Dutch army. Hopefully someone, somewhere, has one and its just a matter of time before you get one.
I have pretty much met all the WS19 owners in Ontario (a great market for 19 sets over the years) and I can state unequivocally that I have NEVER seen any of the wiring or individual connectors you are looking for. They may have even come pre-installed in the tanks and all that had to be added was the transmitter/receiver. That's one aspect I've never clearly understood, when did the 19 sets actually get installed in the tanks? In the factory or on receipt to the unit?
In any event good luck and keep us informed on your Firefly project. You might remember my uncle commanded and was killed in one, a Sherman 1c welded hull version of the 17-pdr.

[Chris Suslowicz]

I'm not sure when the wireless equipment would be installed in the tank, probably at the factory so it would be "ready to go" when it went through the gates. It's also likely that some would be installed by various units - one of the trades was "Wireless Fitter", after all, and some vehicles were upgraded over time with later equipment.

That said, there were various kits of parts: the "Set Kit", "Standard Kit" and "Installation Kit". I think the first two became the "Set and Standard Kit" at some point, containing WS19, supply unit, Carrier No.1, Variometer, aerial bases 8 (later 10) and 9, set to supply unit cable, brush guards, canvas cover, and a couple of headsets.

The "Installation Kit" contained everything else needed for a particular vehicle - cables, cable clips, aerial feeder (for the back of the variometer), aerial mounting hardware, control units, a bag of nuts, bolts and fasteners, and so on.

Anything not required from the "Set and Standard Kit" was to be returned to stores after the installation was completed. (e.g. the universal carrier needed Carrier No.2 and different canvas because of the supply unit mounting position, so the instructions were to remove the angle iron, and screws from Carrier No.1 and fit them to the top of the set, and return the remains of Carrier No.1 plus the PSU securing strap from the set kit to stores as not required.

I think the 'screened conduit' was standard flexible conduit for the period with a braid screen added (and U-section terminations soldered on to keep everything connected together). Any screwed collars would be added before the final termination was soldered on, and they would match the threads on the industrial electrical fittings of the period.

I've seen a roll of the conduit on eBay - no doubt intended for field & base repairs - but not any of the conduit fittings. (Apart from a Control Unit No.1 with the elbow connector installed - but that was nearly 50 years ago in Hurst Street!)

I may have a power supply cable with the end for the Turret Junction Box fitted, which is probably the correct diameter for the 4 and 5 way cables, but will only be about 18-in to 2-ft long.

Chris.

[Tim Bell]

The USA made control boxes with cabling and connectors surface occasionally - I have 2 x Junction Box no 3 - the cabling however is black rubber coated and to date i havent seen a single Firefly which has that style in it.

I suspect the solution will be to get both the braided sheath and the flex-conduit and make some, especially given the lengths.

However until I have to install the connections between the hull and turret terminal boxes and the Wireless 19 units I will live in hope of locating the correct conduit.

Thanks for the input and if anyone finds anything which may suit, please let me know.

Patrick... sorry to hear your Uncle was killed on Fireflies, and so late on in the war too.


Tim

[Jordan Baker]

I checked and don’t have those part numbers. I do have these ones though. I’m not sure if the elbows and other threaded connectors are what you are looking for or not.

[Colin Alford]

Jordan,

According to "Radio Stations, British No.19 Mk II (USA), Consolidated Installation Kit Register, July 4 1944":

PC 82480/ZA 10304 - Connectors 3 point, 1/2" x 22" No. 12 (6 pin socket/lugs) is used on Staghound.

PC 82483/ZA 10517 - Connectors Twin, 1/2" x 44" No. 121 (6 pin socket/lugs) is used on Stuart III (M3A1) and Locust.

SD III - R56-A - Connectors 4 point, 1/2" x 24" No. 40 (6 pin socket/lugs) is used on 75mm and 105mm Shermans and M10 17 Pounder.

If Tim is not interested, I would be happy to take them off your hands.

Colin