Sold: 25-pdr limbers in Portugal

[Keith Brooker]

A guy near me wants to sell these 3 limbers, one is from 1943, i could buy them but i don`t need the 3 of them. There in Portugal

[Keith Brooker]

Just got back to the seller to buy the 3 of them and he has sold 2 all ready.

[Keith Brooker]

Would this limber have been made in Canada? ww2 limber R & W Co Ltd 1943 number 29108 and tires made in Canada. I have now bought the limber. One more saved.

[Keith Brooker]

More photos. Needs a bit of work on it. Tyres made in Canada

[rob love]

Most of the Canadian limbers I have seen were F&W (Frost and Wood) who also made the 36M grenade in great quantity.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Nice find, great to see one more saved.

Is it marked R&W or F&W? As Rob said, Frost & Wood Company "was one of the largest manufacturers of farm implements in Canada. They were the largest munitions manufacturer in Eastern Ontario, producing hundreds of thousands of hand grenades and artillery shells."

R&W may refer to R. and W. Hawthorn, Leslie and Company of St. Peter's, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (usually referred to as Hawthorn Leslie), a shipbuilding and locomotive manufacturer?

[rnixartillery]

The last Canadian limber I had was built by Richardson Road Machinery and had slight variations on the steel fabrication.

Rob..................rnixartillery

[Alex van de Wetering]

Congrats Keith....nice project! Did the other limbers also stay in Portugal of did they go abroad?

Please keep us updated on your project.

Alex

[Ed Storey]

Attached is a badge from the Smith Falls Frost and Woods plant which could trace its history back to 1839. Prior to the war the company was engaged in manufactured farm machinery and is perhaps best known for its wartime contract to produce 100,000 of No. 36 Grenades a month. The company closed its doors in 1955.

[Keith Brooker]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Congrats Keith....nice project! Did the other limbers also stay in Portugal of did they go abroad?

Please keep us updated on your project.

Alex

They are still here in Portugal. I think some locals bought them.
They tow hunting dogs in trailers in Portugal.

[Keith Brooker]

The makers names. First one was on the other limber and 2nd one is on my limber. The other limbers he had sold. Hard to make out but could be a F. Has a small C before the number and the towing hook? and tyres made in Canada.
Reg number on the one i bought is 29108 and on the other limber 29916.

[Keith Brooker]

Photo of towing hook. made in Canada?

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Keith Brooker

The makers names. First one was on the other limber and 2nd one is on my limber. The other limbers he had sold. Hard to make out but could be a F. Has a small C before the number and the towing hook? and tyres made in Canada.
Reg number on the one i bought is 29108 and on the other limber 29916.

It's an F. on both, so Frost & Wood. The plate is F.&W. but they've kerned the F and the '.' together to squeeze everything onto the plate.

Chris.

[Keith Brooker]

I bought this limber, needs a bit of work but all there.
The two wheels only have 2 wheel nuts on them each, any one know where i could find any.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Nice project, Keith.

For spares my first port of call is MLU member Stefan Leegwater of www.lwdparts.com

[Keith Brooker]

Thank you Hanno for the link, i have sent an email.
Is there a manual on the limber or is it in part of the 25Pdr manual.

[Keith Brooker]

25Pdr shell that i hope to buy Dated 1945. primer dated 5/53
Is there a manual on the limber or is it in part of the 25Pdr manual.

[Keith Brooker]

I have been offered wheel nuts for the CMP's , will they work? on a Cdn limber

[mark gillatt]

No, they are bigger

[Keith Brooker]

Thanks Mark, that`s a shame

[m606paz]

Congrats! Thanks for sharing!

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by mark gillatt

No, they are bigger

Not bigger, same size but different pitch.

CMP wheel nuts are 5/8"UNF (18 threads per inch), while British nuts are 5/8"BSF (14 tpi). And both types have Left and Right threads

[Mike Cecil]

Tony and Keith,

Both the British and Canadian spare parts lists show extensive use of BSF threaded nuts bolts and studs. Both show the wheel stud as 'Stud, wheel, cone seating, no.3, part number TR162' and the nut as 'Nut, cone seating, wheel stud, No.4, part number TR203', but without specifying the size or thread. Sixteen of each are listed for the trailer. Both parts lists are later, the Canadian is 1943 and the Brit is 1945. Neither show a different part number for different studs and nuts for each side of the trailer.

I suspect this is because 1943+ manufacture limbers were equipped with RH threads on both sides. There was also a change order to retrofit RH threads on the left side of limbers already in service, but how far that went is not known to me.

The 25-pdr gun manual has a section on the ammunition trailer, as does the illustrated parts list. I am not aware of a manual just for the ammunition trailer. Reproduction manuals of good quality are available from Cavalier Books in the UK:

https://www.caliverbooks.com/bookvie...8cl30&id=19715

The cartridge case you are hoping to purchase is a British manufactured Mk.2 case made by the Royal Laboratories (Woolwich) in 1945. The CF means it was filled with a full charge of a smokeless propellant. There is no indication that the cartridge was refilled (no crossed out 'F'). The primer is a No.11 Mk.5/2, manufactured May 1953, but the primer filling date has been struck out for some reason, although the filling factory code and lot number have not. Nice find in any event, hope you can acquire it.

Mike

[mark gillatt]

Just checked and you are right Tony. Keith, I have some British nuts 5/8" BSF left and right hand if you still need them, also a canvas cover for the front and some other bits.

[Mike Cecil]

As this is a 1943 trailer, it will most probably have RH threads on both left and right side wheel studs - see my previous post - so best to check before purchasing.
Mike

[Keith Brooker]

First time i have had a good look at the limber i bought, got the door hinges to move better and took a lot of photos with info on some of the parts.
A few more photos. Hoping to get someone down to have a look to restore it as i don`t have the skill to do it myself.

If to much then i will have to sell it to someone who has the expertise to do it. At least i have saved it.

[Keith Brooker]

A few photos. some of the parts have the date and some numbers.

[Keith Brooker]

Photo of the back of the towing hook with number 1023C . Cdn make.

[Keith Brooker]

This is in the next room where i store the Limber an old blacksmiths just left as is.

[Alex van de Wetering]

This is in the next room where i store the Limber an old blacksmiths just left as is.

Looks like a museum, Keith! Maybe it will come in handy when you get going with the restoration of the Limber.

Did you manage to get some wheel nuts in the meantime?