This is an odd ad! - Page 5

Wayne Hingley · #**121** 22-06-20, 05:26

Ill be looking forward to seeing the limber and gun tractor projects take shape.

rob love · #**122** 10-01-21, 02:13

Well nothing moves as fast as one would like it seems, but I have made some good progress on the 25 pounder. There are still some small parts missing like the linkage front the trunnion lever to the sight assembly, but overall I have most things now painted, lubricated and operating. Lots of little things to look after yet like the grease fittings and cotter pins, and some fabrication work to make a new seat base and seat. The bore is like a sewer pipe, but I am going to pin the barrel up for blank fire so the bore won't matter.

I will bring in one of the firing platforms soon and get a start on it, although it will have to wait for spring before it can be blasted and painted.

For the most part, when purchasing, I bought doubles so the second gun can be done one day as well. The limber and tractor will have to come before the second gun of course.

One of the big problems I am about to face is that the cold side of the quonset is already filled with equipment. I think my easiest move will be to get the Jeep moved out into one of the smaller sheds to make room for this gun. But that will only be a temporary solution. I think I am soon going to have to assemble the next and bigger shed.

Ed Storey · #**123** 10-01-21, 02:21

That is one nice looking 25-Pdr!

rob love · #**124** 10-01-21, 02:31

Thanks Ed, but as the saying goes "there are many like it, but this one is mine".

One area I am happy with is that large hole that used to be on the back near the towing ring. It did not end up perfect, but if you didn't know it was there before you would not pick it out now.
Another challenge is going to be that I found a rivet broken holding the trail spike bracket on the left side. The casting will end up being cracked if that is not attended to. I am considering buying a long rivet and threading it, then bolting it into place with the nut on the inside. I know blacksmiths bolt supply sell these. I may look at that avenue as well.

Robert Bergeron · #**125** 10-01-21, 03:21

Very well done Rob . Make that next shed large enough this time . You are crowded in there now !

Wayne Hingley · #**126** 10-01-21, 03:46

Beauty! Nice work Rob.

David Dunlop · #**127** 10-01-21, 04:02

It has come a long way, Rob. Nice work!

David

Bob Carriere · #**128** 10-01-21, 15:42

....from the St Jerome area............... I have fond memories of pulling them off the property.

Nice job.......

rob love · #**129** 10-01-21, 16:36

Bob
Without the help of you and the team, I am not sure I would have made it off the property with these. It would have been days longer, and an inch at a time.

Without the help of many on this forum who contributed knowledge, gave or sold me parts, I would be much further back than I am now. Especially I would mention Hanno, who did all the leg work in his country to get me a lot of items I purchased from that auction out his way. He talked with the owner, picked up the goods, stored and prepped them for shipping, and made all the arrangements to have them shipped. Or Dave, who knew of the limbers and negotiated a deal on them. Or Wayne, who brought me out the tractor shell from his province. There are many many more to thank in this....I know they know who they are: Thanks.

It was a team effort for sure. No man is an Island, and certainly not in this case.

Mike Cecil · #**130** 10-01-21, 17:18

Very nice result, Rob.

Mike

maple_leaf_eh · #**131** 10-01-21, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

Bob
Without the help of you and the team, I am not sure I would have made it off the property with these. It would have been days longer, and an inch at a time.

Without the help of many on this forum who contributed knowledge, gave or sold me parts, I would be much further back than I am now.
.....

It was a team effort for sure. No man is an Island, and certainly not in this case.

It was an odd add indeed!

rob love · #**132** 11-01-21, 00:31

It was a rather nice day today, so after I put away the Christmas CMP 3 ton I used the tractor to pull one of the firing platforms out of the snowbank. I'll get it into the shop in the next day or two and after it thaws get a start on it. One spoke shows damage but I am pretty sure I can fix it without having to remove the spoke. My original plan was to remove the spoke, but there are a lot of rivets involved. I am going to plan B: heat, straighten and weld. I'll also get the crab legs off it, and mix them with the partial set I bought from the auction. Those are small enough I can get the individual pieces into the cabinet sandblaster. The platform will have to wait for spring.

If one goes back to the first page of all this, you will read that the platforms were a complete surprise. All the photos I saw were of guns without platform. When I got there the owner told me there were the big circles under the flower garden's earth. A nice surprise...those are not common here.

rob love · #**133** 19-01-21, 04:32

Some photos of the firing platform. I repaired the bent spoke, and replaced the metal underneath rather than try to straighten it. The crab legs gave some resistance, and to save oxyacetelyne I dropped the upper legs into the woodstove for 10 minutes. They came out slightly glowing red which softened up the pins and had them apart in reasonable time. Both of the "axles" for the arms were bent or broken, but it turns out they are fabricated, so it will be easy to make new ones. I have pushed the ring underneath the gun for now until spring, but will make the leg axles soon once I buy some metal from town.

rob love · #**134** 15-06-21, 06:08

I thought the firing platform would take a while to sandblast, but it was done in a morning. I also have totally disassembled the attaching legs and cleaned all those up as well. One pin decided to shed it's threads, but I am glad it is a fairly simple pin. I'll try to salvage one off my spare set of legs, but if that doesn't work out it will be easy enough to make.

Tolerances on the pins and legs seem pretty tight and don't leave a lot of room for lubricant. I'll polish up the shafts on the pins which should give a few thou of tolerance. Otherwise they are close to a press fit.

rob love · #**135** 16-07-21, 05:55

I tried to salvaged another stripped pin and the next one I removed did the same thing. So I had one left to try, and by heating the bracket to a nice red colour, the pin came out with it's threads.

I re-sandblasted everything lightly to remove any oils, and followed up with a coat of POR15 and then the Gillespie OD. I had to re-polish any overspray off the pins, and clean some of the bores, but everything went together without issue. The platform is now on the gun, although I am going to have to make up some new pads on the trails, as the platform is loose and the one chain that adjusts will not go far enough to tighten the ring. I was able to put a twist in the two chains to get it all tight for now.

I note lots of small jobs to do on the gun, like riveting some straps in place, and I have to make the wood seat yet, and also the case for the instrument lights. But today I towed it out of the shop to let the sun and heat help the fresh paint to cure. It will also let me "cut the grass" in the area of the shop that has housed this gun for the past two or three years.

rob love · #**136** 16-07-21, 05:59

So now it is time to move to the next portion of this restoration: the limber. I pulled the tarp off and brought it to the shop. I am hoping this will be a quick restoration. I removed the right tire which was missing it's snap-ring, and replaced it with a cmp rim and tire for now. The first order of business will be to remove the fenders, and straighten a few parts. With any luck I'll have it in the sandblast shed for August.

This was a Saskatchewan/Alberta piece, so is relatively rust free which is nice. I expect the fenders to give me the biggest problem. In the background you can just see the artillery tractor shell. The tractor will be made up from 3 different CMPs, and use a 15cwt frame which I believe to be pretty identical to the FAT frame.

David Dunlop · #**137** 16-07-21, 14:03

Rob.

Back when Mike Calnan was at Shilo, here was a guy in town out there driving around in a homebuilt mud truck based on a Gun Tractor Chassis. Used to hang out at the restaurant just outside the base. Maybe that truck is still out there somewhere.

David

rob love · #**138** 16-07-21, 15:55

The restaurant is still there, but there seem to be very very few CMPs left in this area. There are a couple of scrapyards in the area, and I suspect they may have consumed most of the CMPs. That said, there are still a few surprises out there. The tractor shell was found (not by me) about 25 miles North, resting in the bush line for about 60 years. It suffered a few bullet holes, and the owners used some sheetmetal off the rear slope, but the potential is there. In fact, it still has an original padlock or two still on some of the bins.

I have said it before, the biggest killer of artillery tractors was that rear winch. The owners would shed the shell, and weld a tow truck boom directly onto the frame. Then there would be a cycle of frame cracking and fish-plating that would make an unrecoverable mess of the original frames. I'll show some photos of a frame like that when I get to the restoration of the tractor.

Mike Cecil · #**139** 16-07-21, 16:06

Hi Rob,

Looking really nice.

What is the box mounted on the rear of the trail for, please?

I thought both diagonally opposite chains/turnbuckles adjusted the tension of the platform stowage?

Regards

Mike

rob love · #**140** 16-07-21, 16:16

The box contains the siege lamps. One website indicates this position for stowage, but I did not find any supporting information in the manuals for it. I believe normally the canvas items are stowed there.

From the back of the gun, the right chain has the turnbuckle to adjust the length, The left side is a fixed length. Not sure if this is a Cdn thing. My 1950 parts manual shows both having turnbuckles like you mention. I'll have to check the other two carriages here in the yard, along with some of the half dozen or so guns at work to see if this fixed chain might be a Canadian thing, or someone's quick fix. Unfortunately I do not have a Canadian parts manual for the 25 pounder (yet).

Mike Cecil · #**141** 16-07-21, 16:54

Hi Rob,

I have one ... I'll check. However, based upon the Australian experience, I think you may have a mix of two periods. The straight chain came first, then the chain and turnbuckle was introduced to compensate for the very problem you have: lack of sufficient tension on the firing platform which allowed the overcentre clamps to open during transit, with consequential damage to trail and platform.

There was also three methods of prevention of the overcentre clamps opening on their own: no restraint which relied on the tension of the overcentre arm itself, a spring-loaded, clip-on restraint, and finally a webbing strap restraint that was held to the trail by two footman loops. All detailed in my new book.

I thought the siege lamps were stowed on the trailer, No.27 Mk.1's tray, and the canvas covers, when stowed, went on that position of the trail. Maybe a Canadian thing?

I gather your 25-pdr is a Sorrel, Quebec, gun?

Interesting link between Canadian and Australian 25-pdr production.

Regards

Mike

maple_leaf_eh · #**142** 16-07-21, 17:07

Rob, you've made my day! From me spotting the cryptic heads up on a French language FB group and my post on this thread, to your half-way across the country recovery roadtrip, and now the proof of your labours. All great to see. And all the comments from other artillery collectors and builders helping along the way.

MLU at its finest!

Tony Smith · #**143** 16-07-21, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

I re-sandblasted everything lightly to remove any oils, and followed up with a coat of POR15 and then the Gillespie OD.

Rob, I think this has popped up in other threads at other times, but just to get the info here in this thread; what colour code of Gillespie paint did you use?

Someone else in years to come might be the custodian of this gun and they might appreciate knowing the correct touch up.

Mike Cecil · #**144** 16-07-21, 21:39

Hi Rob,

I've consulted three parts ID lists: the Sept 1943 Canadian ID list (CARXXVPRCA) published in North Africa, the British War Office ID list (CATOFIVPRA) published March 1941, and the British War Office parts list of February 1945.

The first two mentioned lists (1941 & 1943) show one side as a chain only, the other side as the chain/turnbuckle combination. The curious thing is, each shows the opposite location, viz the British list shows the chain on the left side of the trail, and the chain/turnbuckle on the right side (the same configuration as you have on your gun), while the Canadian list has the chain/turnbuckle on the left, and the chain only on the right (left & right based upon standing at the trail eye, facing toward the ordnance).

The 1945 British list shows chain/turnbuckle on both sides, for both the No.1 and the No.2 trails.

Hope that helps.

Mike

rob love · #**145** 16-07-21, 22:00

I checked the other Canadian gun and it is the same as this one: fixed chain on the left side and turnbuckle on the right. There are 6 Canadian guns on the base I can check and see if this was the norm on Cdn guns. I know when I was doing the work on the crab legs for the platform, the 1950 British parts manual showed me the wrong way to have the two pieces attaching to the frame. I got the one on, but the other one was off by about an inch and a half. I had to reverse both the pieces to get it to go on easily. The line drawings are not always correct.

I think the siege lamp stowage was posted on thegunner.net website, which is British. It was on their technical page but the link now appears to be broken.

Your 25 pounder book is on my list of things to order. Now that you allude to a Canadian connection, I guess I had better get to ordering.

Tony: The colour is Gillespie 33070. It is more of a ballpark match rather than an exact match. It kind of falls in between green and brown, depending on which way you look at it.

Terry: I would be happy to make your day again. Find me something else to buy....17 pounder, L5 or 6 pounders are all on my list. I don't mind going the distance or doing the work...good things don't always come easy.

rob love · #**146** 14-05-22, 15:42

Found a period photo of what I believe to be the siege lamp box stowed on the trail. Not the approved location, but I believe I have seen another photo with a gun stowing it in that position.
The caption of the photo reads: 25 pounder field gun of the 153rd Field Regiment (Leicestershire Yeomanry) during a practice shoot in the mountains near Tripoli in the Lebanon, 7 June 1943.

David Dunlop · #**147** 14-05-22, 17:04

Is it the angle of that photo, Rob, or is the Trail on that gun on the ground at a level with the front axle of the gun?

David

rob love · #**148** 15-05-22, 02:13

It may be partially the angle of the ground, but the wheels are on the firing platform which seems reasonable sunk in, and the spade-box may well be on the bottom end of the trail making it a little higher.