Rover Light Armoured Car

[Wayne Henderson]

I recently acquired a Ford CMP based Armoured Car. This Australian designed body was made in 1941 using local 9mm armour plate and fitted to a 1941 cab12 chassis. Two versions were made, MK1 was fitted to a Ford 158 inch chassis then latter the MK2 fitted to the Ford 134 inch chassis.

The vehicle I have is a Mk1 which has suffered over the last 80 years but it is restorable. Only 40 Mk1 bodies were made.

There is very little information available apart from Mike Cecil's Military Profile books, most information on the web has come from this publication.

One eastern state museum claims to have one of only 3 left in the world, which is odd as there are at least 4 in W.A.

I will update this thread as I proceed and add any other information

[Robin Craig]

Wayne,

in the title you mention the name or term Rover. Can you expand on where that came from or what it relates to as you do not mention any Rover connection in the wordage, you have me curious.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Nice find, Wayne!

[Mike Cecil]

Robin,

A series of names were adopted officially for Australian armoured vehicles (except the MG carrier and derivatives).

Car, Light Armoured, (Aust) was the Rover.
Car, Heavy, (Aust) was the Rhino
Car, Scout (Aust) was the Dingo.

The Australian Cruiser tank Mk.1 was the Sentinel, and the Mk.3 was the Thunderbolt.

I've never found an official explanation as to how the names were arrived at, unlike the post-war SP 25-pdr called Yeramba, where the origin of the name is well documented.

The Rover was un-officially known as the Mobile Slit Trench due to the long, narrow open top.

Given Wayne's expertise as we have seen it with Wayne's Wonder Bus, etc, I'm looking forward to this restoration thread. This is indeed a rare vehicle, and it will be fantastic to see it properly restored. I'm sure I'll learn a lot more about the Rover and its construction along the way - there is nothing like the experience of dealing with the real thing.


Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Robin,

I've never found an official explanation as to how the names were arrived at,

Mike

But it is almost certainly unlikely to have any connection with the UK's Rover Car Company, which is what you were leaning towards, Robin?

[Robin Craig]

Tony and Mike thanks for the replies.

Tony I was by way of exclusion mentioning the Rover Car connection as there was no mention of it, that was my drift.

Interesting project and nice once again to see history getting preserved.

[Lynn Eades]

Early V hull, with some input by Pininfarina?
Great find Wayne.

[Wayne Henderson]

As mentioned, nothing to do with Rover Car Company but may have been some design influence on the Rover P5B...

Went and had a look at 4 other Rovers on the weekend for research purposes. Came home with some hatches, a bonnet and armour wheel arches.
Now have a better understanding of the changes between long and short wheelbase variants.
Bonnet is very crude but effective design, minus the farmers circle cut out.

[Lynn Eades]

Wayne, you now at least have a pattern "in hand".

[Wayne Henderson]

Laser cut plate to fill the holes.

[Wayne Henderson]

I ordered a photo in hi res of this Rover, from the Australian War Memorial Collection.
The caption says Puckapunyal in Victoria, but markings are 1st Armoured in WA and I think the photo was taken at Northam, judging but the bushland.

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Wayne,

The markings are 1 Armd Div (formation) and what looks like 65 for the Unit, which would be 2nd Armoured Brigade Reconnaissance Squadron of 2nd Armd Brigade. Those markings, both Formation, Unit, and the Recce Sqn inverted triangle just visible above the unit marking, were first promulgated in March 1942. That unit, 2 Armd Bde Recce Sqn, was effectively disbanded on 8 November 1942 when it morphed into B Squadron, 2/4th Armoured Regiment, and switched to tanks.

At the time, the unit was still in the Narrabri-Gunnedah area of NSW, having moved there from Puckapunyal, Victoria, in July. The unit sign '65' was used by the unit from March 1942 until November 1942, but had been disbanded by the time elements of the Division moved to Western Australia in 1943. No other unit was listed with the '65' code for 1st Armd Division.

I would therefore suggest that the image, if taken at Puckapunyal - and it certainly matches the terrain - was taken between March and July 1942. If it was taken in NSW, which I doubt, then sometime between July and November.

Mike

[Wayne Henderson]

Thanks for the info Mike. One photo below shows markings on the rear of a Mk1 C Squadron? Unit signs are too far gone to even guess at.
I will try to find Rover photos from either Northam or Moora camps using the State Library as a source.

The other shows repairs to cracks in the hull, you mentioned in Military Profiles that several hulls were rejected because of cracks. Someone welded and patched this hull, not to subtle either.

[Mike Cecil]

Yes, a C Squadron symbol of a circle.

2/11th Aust Armd Car Regt would be a pretty safe bet: located at Mingenew, WA from late December 1942. Consisted of HQ Sqn, and A, B and C Sqns.

Good luck with the photo hunt.

Mike

[Wayne Henderson]

Been going over the hull to fit new armour plate, have noticed that many of the original welds have let go.
Many of the boxes and internal fittings welded to the AAP have separated over the years. Anyone who has welded armour plate knows it requires prep work and knowledge of stress and tension.
I am welding in 5, 8, and 9mm mild steel plate to fill the holes. 9mm AAP is no longer available.
Will be using a MIG and pre heating to do the welds and grinding the welds flush. The Nickle weld will be reproduced by a stick welder later.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Looks good! When you get closer to fabricating larger missing pieces, bear in mind the workshop conditions when these 40 hulls were manufactured. Was there a fully dedicated clean-sheet production line, or were these welded up on jigs on an open stretch of the factory floor? Were the workers the most highly skilled men in the entire factory, or were they the next shift available? Are there signs of careful, precise and repeatable measurements and precision controlled cutters, or more scribe a line and grind down to it?

I mention this degree of imprecision thinking about a story from when DEW Industries in Canada graciously restored a WW1 US light tank which ended its service life in the nascent Canadian Armoured Corps. Don Dingwall was at DEW and he had to laughingly explain to the modern shop workers just how primitive the shops were in 1918-19. Of course nothing would be square or perfect. The workmen were used to making locomotives, which only had a few truly standardized parts.

[Wayne Henderson]

Finished the upper sections today. Looks much better but still the ugliest truck ever. I will tackle the hatches and fittings when time allows.

[Brian Gough]

Wayne, it looks to me like the Rover inspired Elon Musk in the design of Tesla's new Cybertruck.

Brian

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by Brian Gough

Wayne, it looks to me like the Rover inspired Elon Musk in the design of Tesla's new Cybertruck.

Brian

I would suggest Tesla’s Cybertruck is an insult to the Rover.

[Mike Cecil]

The original MRAP??

Great job, Wayne: very unusual vehicle and, as it's a LWB Mk.1, must be close to the only survivor - certainly the only one under restoration?

When does Mr Sandblaster arrive to change the patina?

Mike

[Wayne Henderson]

Hi Mike,
I will finish off the hatches next and then the plates at the bottom that rusted away during its time in the salt lakes at Nungarrin. Plan is to do a bit here and there as the paying jobs keep getting priority.