How To: Ford CMP "Blitz" miscellany

[John Mackie]

Hullo Jaques, I have always enjoyed reading your posts. the informaion available on MLu is terific.
I have just aquired a F15 A, it was a bushfire truck out here in the western riverina so is a bit knocked about but mot a lot of rust. Because there was no room in my shed it has gone to my son's. he had it running in less than 24 hours.
it has been fitted with a 2 speed transfer case and a trensmission handbrake so I do not have to chase up handbrake cables to the rear wheels.
I have been following the discussion about spedo. cables and realise I will havs the same headakes. In your photos you show a cable end with what I would call a key / keyway set up, I have never seen Ford use these. Detroit diesel and maybee GM used them. What are they from?
I hope John will put information up about his progress on MLU

[Jacques Reed]

Hi John,

The keyway end or tang end, as some manufacturers call them, at the transfer case seems to be another thing unique to these vehicles compared to standard Ford vehicles. I don't know why they use them. Perhaps the transfer cases are outside supply to Ford so that is what they are given.

Civilian Ford car and truck speedometers of course are driven from the transmission as there is no transfer case.

All civilian Fords use a driven speedometer gear with a square hole for the shaft. The shaft is flattened to a 0.104" square to go into this hole, same as the speedometer end. This is why no cable from any of the old Ford parts suppliers will work on a Ford CMP except maybe an F-15. They have a standard 20 tooth driven gear with a square hole, which is located on the rear transmission mount as used on 4 x 2 four speed transmissions.

Clark Brothers Instruments catalogue, available online, show some of the fittings used on speedometer cables. The nuts have not changed since WW2 and are still available. Male 3/4-20 UNEF at the commercial speedometer and Female 7/8-18 at the transfer case. Likewise the 0.203" lower tang tip which looks identical to mine and is the same dimensions. I think your connection to Detroit Diesel makes a lot of sense as Clark Brothers supply a lot of instrumentation for the big rigs. These tang tips obviously are used by some of them.
Don't know availability here of their products but at least it is a reference if someone has to talk to a cable manufacturer.

Hope this is of some interest and help.

Cheers,

[Grant Bowker]

Speedometer cable at transfer case:
1. I don't know whether Ford and Chevrolet use identical cable tips at the transfer case.
2. If they are the same, Phil Waterman put Chevrolet measurements on his web site at http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ge%20Notes.htm
3. From memory (not to be trusted 100%) I think Clark Brothers Instruments http://www.clarkbrothers.net/catalogs.html had similar tips but not absolutely identical to Chevrolet. My memory is that the precise cable and sheath weren't obviously available but I may not have looked hard enough....



A couple of days ago I made up a dummy to see whether the sheet metal guide at the transfer case could be replicated on a bead roller. No photos at this time but the summary is "exact to the nth degree" - no, but functional should be possible.

[Lynn Eades]

The riveted carriers use a drive like that. The cable nuts (female) are brass thread, so probably British origin. May be that kind of drive is as well?

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

Speedometer cable at transfer case:
1. I don't know whether Ford and Chevrolet use identical cable tips at the transfer case.
2. If they are the same, Phil Waterman put Chevrolet measurements on his web site at http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ge%20Notes.htm
3. From memory (not to be trusted 100%) I think Clark Brothers Instruments http://www.clarkbrothers.net/catalogs.html had similar tips but not absolutely identical to Chevrolet. My memory is that the precise cable and sheath weren't obviously available but I may not have looked hard enough....



A couple of days ago I made up a dummy to see whether the sheet metal guide at the transfer case could be replicated on a bead roller. No photos at this time but the summary is "exact to the nth degree" - no, but functional should be possible.

Hi Grant,

I had a look at Phil's drawing and my dimensions are the same where it connects to the driven gear: tip diameter = 0.203", height of tang = 0.040"
Overall length is different. Mine is shorter at 1.20" (nominal 1-3/16" same as Clark Bros tip J-2) Likewise my shoulder position is the same as J-2, 3/4".
There is also no O-ring notch on mine or tip J-2.
My shoulderless tip has the same tip diameter and tang height.
Both tips were pulled out of Ford transfer cases that looked like they hadn't been touched since WW2. It has just dawned on me. I think the J-2 type came from a two speed transfer case and I think it had a large diameter casing. I replaced my 2 speed with the single speed in keeping with a F-15A. The shoulderless type definitely came out of a single speed case and had a remnant or 1/4" diameter casing on the ferule.

The only bare steel outer casing Clark Brothers stock is bulk 0.25" OD which is the Ford commercial and F-15, F-15A size. Perhaps Ford used a larger casing on their two speed transfer cases too?
Covered sizes may be the same as Chev, without the covering, but I will leave that to the Chev guys to determine.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day.

Further to previous post and to keep it short:

Does anyone have the Ford F60L-01 Spare Parts list?

It would be interesting to see if the part numbers were the same for the speedometer casing and shaft of the F-15A and F-60L as fitted to new design cabs.

For the F-15A:

*C29Q 17261- Casing Speedometer shaft. Used with new design cab
*C29Q 17262- Shaft Speedometer. Used with new design cab

I would think the lengths would be similar based on location of driven gear.
If different part numbers, it might explain a larger diameter casing on a two speed transfer case.

Cheers,

[gjamo]

F60L-01 parts list

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Jacques,

The F60L-01 parts list Dec 1942 issue shows:

C01Q 17261 Casing speedometer - used to serial #21565 with old design cab
C29Q 17261 Casing speedometer shaft - used from serial #21566 with new design cab.
106749 - key, speedometer drive gear (74142-S)

C01Q 17262 shaft, speedometer, used to serial #21565 with old design cab
C29Q 17262 shaft, speedometer - used from serial #21566 with new design cab.

*083065: Sleeve speedometer drive gear (C01Q-17269
* 1809553: Gear speedometer driven - 14 teeth (C01Q-17271-D)
*284414: Bushing - speedometer driven gear (C01Q-17277)
*1809534: Gear-speedometer driving - 4 teeth (C01Q-17285)
C01Q-17288 Spacer, speedometer gear.

Hope that helps. - Edit: looks like I was typing while GJ was scanning!

Mike

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Graeme and Mike,

Thanks for your replies. Based on those same numbers, Ford single and two speed transfer cases used the same speedometer casings and shafts on the Cab 13's. Hanno's speedometer shaft would slot right into a F-60L casing.

Only the following are different:
Driving gear, C01Q-17285-A (4 teeth) Note: this is also listed as part 1809534 same as the F-60L part number. "A"?
Driven gear, C011WQ-17271 (15 teeth)

The key, sleeve, bushing, and spacer are the same part numbers as the single speed case.

Thank heaven I keep a box of "samples". Since posting the previous posts I found the ferule and remnant of the casing from what I believe was the two speed transfer case.
It measured 0.452" in diameter which would be nominally 7/16"
This does not prove anything, however, as the transfer case was installed in the modified F-15A chassis so the casing could have come from anywhere. Different supplier or even a Chevy perhaps? Bush engineers grab whatever is laying around.
I am fairly certain the transfer case had Ford markings on it but it is long gone to check.

Cheers,