Chevrolet 1533X2 30-cwt trucks

[Davistine Liddle]

Originally Posted by Stuart Kirkham

I too am not an expert on LRDG vehicles although I do take an interest in them. I can only go on the photographs I took of the truck, information I have from the owner and information I find through research.

I believe this truck may have been a 'Headquarters/Survey Section' vehicle as these had the same timber rear bodies and timber cab sides. http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/lrdgvehicles.html

Although this Chev in the photo below is an earlier model, it does display very similar modifications including the cab side fuel filler and chassis mounted side fuel tank. It also has the timber rear body. The other photo shows an officer inside a timer bodied LRDG vehicle. Photo taken from here - http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/lrdg-hq-trucks.html

Dear Stuart

My name is Davis from india recently i got a chevy 1.5 ton truck which has some similar wood pattern to this truck.If you have any more info 'i am very much thankful to you.Help me to identifying this truck .i am also sharing some link you can also check them. Thank you ..

Regards Davis

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=28622

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php...10207#p1710207

[Stuart Kirkham]

Hello Davis.

That looks like a very rare truck you have. Very similar to the ex New Zealand Long Range Desert Group truck in Western Australia.

I have many detailed photos of the LRDG truck here in WA so if you need any for reference just let me know and I will post them up for you.

The LRDG Chevrolets had a flat steel plate bolted to the inside of the chassis rails to add strength. Does yours have this modification? Can you post up a few photos showing underneath your truck?

It will be interesting to compare photos of both trucks.

[Davistine Liddle]

Hello Stuart

I am mentioning some of the photos and link kindly check.I dont find any data plates and any engine rebuild plates or any frame serial number,Any help where i can find its chassis serial number.

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php...10207#p1710207

[Stuart Kirkham]

Davis

Yes, it looks like your truck has the same strengthening steel plate attached to the outside (sorry, I said inside ) of the chassis rails. The plate should be 25cms high as shown in the photo.

The truck shown below has a nomenclature/ID plate attached to the right hand side of the bulkhead/firewall just under the bonnet/hood.

[Philippe Jeanneau]

Are the wheels on this Australian truck 18" x 10.5 or 16" x 10.5? Does anyone have a part number for the Canadian 10 bolt hubs fitted to Australian and Indian pattern trucks? Are they shorter than the commercial 5 bolt hub?
Thank you

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cletrac (RIP)

Here's the caption off this one with full windshields from IWM.
Members of the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) inspect newly-issued Chevrolet 30cwt trucks in Cairo, May 1942.

Here's a better version of this picture.

L4618873 is part of the block of census numbers L4615000-4635000 which was assigned to “various types” in the Middle East. This Chevrolet 1533X2 being one of them.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Added a general arrangement diagram of the 4B1 body, this was designed specifically for mounting on the Chevrolet 1533X2 truck.

[Simon Theobald]

I have been trying to track down the make and model of a truck in this picture and whilst most advice has been it is a Chevrolet 30cwt, I couldn't find pictures where the front end matched.....until coming across this forum. The man in the picture is my father who was part of REME when it was originally formed. He was part of 2ABW and I believe this was Egypt. So was this "Indian" reference to modifications made in India? I would like to make a scale model of one but the Tamiya one that is most common has a totally different grill and will need modifying somewhat. Any help appreciated!

[Andrew H.]

Yes, that is definitely a Chevrolet "India pattern" truck. The parking lights on top of the headlights suggest it is a 1942-45 model (1941 models had them elsewhere). The curvature of the front mudguards suggest that it does not have the wider Timken axle. The grille is un-cut and the bumper is civilian-style, so probably not LRDG despite its sand-pattern tyres.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Simon Theobald

I would like to make a scale model of one but the Tamiya one that is most common has a totally different grill and will need modifying somewhat. Any help appreciated!

Attachment 114629

The Tamiya kit has the same grill with some bars missing otherwise it is the same as the truck in the photo.

[David Dunlop]

Great photo!

Anyone know what the front plate means and when/where they were used? First one I have seen.

David

[Ilian Filipov]

Originally Posted by cliff

The Tamiya kit has the same grill with some bars missing otherwise it is the same as the truck in the photo.

I'm in doubt this one is with 4B1 metal body fitted to LRDG trucks, looks wooden. Could be 1311X3 model used also in the desert (with marker lights on top of the headlights) but with untouched "waterfall" grille. The problem is that the Tamiya model is of 1533X2.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Simon Theobald

I have been trying to track down the make and model of a truck in this picture and whilst most advice has been it is a Chevrolet 30cwt, I couldn't find pictures where the front end matched.....until coming across this forum. The man in the picture is my father who was part of REME when it was originally formed. He was part of 2ABW and I believe this was Egypt. So was this "Indian" reference to modifications made in India? I would like to make a scale model of one but the Tamiya one that is most common has a totally different grill and will need modifying somewhat. Any help appreciated!

Hello Simon,

Thanks for joing us and bringing in such an interesting story.

The Chevrolet in the picture is definitely an "Indian Pattern" truck, which means it was a chassis/cowl (either with or without windscreen) exported to India where it was fitted with a wooden cab and basic angle-iron-and-wood GS cargo body. This is most likely a 3-ton truck, not a 30-cwt.

Check out the threads "Bombay Chev" and "Chevy Art deco 1942 (4x2)" for more information and pictures.

As suggested it is indeed not a 1533X2, which was built entirely in Canada for a specific demand from the LRDG.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Ilian Filipov

I'm in doubt this one is with 4B1 metal body fitted to LRDG trucks, looks wooden. Could be 1311X3 model used also in the desert (with marker lights on top of the headlights) but with untouched "waterfall" grille. The problem is that the Tamiya model is of 1533X2.

The Tamiya front body panels are the same as the truck shown apart from missing some bars from the grill!

[Simon Theobald]

Thanks Hanno its a great forum to have access to....I have gained more knowledge from the last few posts than in hours of googling! I have some great pics from my dad's war but not all Canadian obviously...although I believe this one is

[Ilian Filipov]

Originally Posted by cliff

The Tamiya front body panels are the same as the truck shown apart from missing some bars from the grill!

Hi Cliff,
Yep, I know the front sheet metal was the same up to 1947 but this can't make the wrestling with Tamiya kit easier.
Cheers!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

On a LRDG research FB page, John J. Valenti posted the specs drawn up by the LRDG for what became the Chevrolet 1533X2. It mentions all kinds of interesting details, like an “engine driven air pump”.

[Grant Bowker]

Yes, very interesting.
Given the stated objection to WD pattern was weight, complexity and gear noise of the 4WD drive, I wonder why a C30 modified to use a commercial pattern Timkin (their spelling) front axle wasn't considered. It would have provided many of the features they asked to include on the modified commercial chassis. Hatred of the cramped cab 11/12 (document dated 1941 so before cab 13)?

The phrase "engine driven air pump" could describe the CMP standard pump mounted on the transmission but powered by the engine.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Grant,

I think the previous experience with civilian GM trucks from “Local Purchase” in North Africa influenced these specs. See the attached document from 1940 listing the types of trucks in use by the LRDG.

Apart from the purpose built body by Gotfredson, the rest of the 1533X2’s configuration seems to be made up from off the shelf components already used for MCP and CMP trucks.

The tyre pump would indeed be the gearbox mounted compressor which was an option on MCP and CMP trucks.

Noteworthy is the specification of the rear axle with 6.17 ratio. This would be the same axle as on the C15, which has a type of differential lock. Thus, the 1533X2 was ideally equipped for the desert, whereas the extra weight, noise and fuel consumption of an all wheel drive system apparently did not give enough advantage.

[Charlie Down]

Hi, this is my first venture into MLU, just joined today as advised by Hanno. I am currently trying to get a set of drawings of the floor and cab area including the dashboard completed for the LRDG Chevrolet 1533X2 truck on the basis that we don't know much specific detail about it. On the spec above it stated that the trucks would have a PTO air pump, but have never seen one being used. I have so far got details of the actual pump and its location, I know what the airline looks like and the connector, but have no idea where the airline runs to from the pump and whether it comes out in the cab or somewhere else. The cab makes sense as it's central to all 4 wheels, but there is no photo evidence of it's location on the LRDG trucks. I know the pump and airline were a standard accessory, was its fitting and location also standard?

[Grant Bowker]

This doesn't apply directly to the 1533x2:
When fitted to a Chevrolet CMP, the pump is driven by PTO attached to the left side of the transmission, engaged by twisting a rod with slot in the end using a screwdriver or similar tool through a hole in the floor. On CMP, the air output line ran to a fitting mounted on the frame rail adjacent to the pump. Based on the photos of the trucks, the frame rail isn't readily accessible so either an extension to the airline, relocation of the line or an access door would be needed. One of the photos in post #19 above shows a couple of projections on the filler panel between running board and cab (at the forward edge) that might be an air fitting. I hope someone with more knowledge can give you a better answer.

[Charlie Down]

Thanks for the reply Grant. Based on the information you gave I had a good look at my 200 odd LRDG truck photo's. I looked at the area below and around the door frame, as you suggested. The running board on most LRDG trucks was loaded with stowage, quite often running its length, with extra boxes, spare wheel on the Breda gun trucks and cans stowed in front of the standard rack containing 3 x 2 gallon POW cans. This means that if the airline came out in this area on a vertical surface the stowage would block access, which doesn't make sense. This left the horizontal steps, which don't show up well in photos, due to the canvas door at the front, stowage at the rear, troopers in the way etc. However I did find this intriguing photo of a 20mm Breda gun truck having a tyre change. A trooper seems to be lifting a flap on the step, which ties in with your comments, would give the crew access when the running board was heavily stowed, is central to the vehicle and explains why its not visible in the other photos. Would this be a possible solution to the question? Does it make sense considering standard fitting on other vehicles? Also would there be one on the other side too? Are there any photos of this arrangement on other MCP Chevrolets?
Annoyingly I've looked at this photo a hundred times and never noticed that detail!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I think you have cracked the nut, Charlie!

Please post that other photo of the tyre inflation too.

[Charlie Down]

You mean this one Hanno? And thank you Hanno for your help and advice.

Here's what could be the only photo of the PTO air compressor being used on a LRDG truck. Unfortunately you can't see where the airline goes, but it could be under the truck to the connector on the LHS of the cab. I like to think so....

Does anyone have photo's of the relevant area LHS lower door frame and running board ) to show confirmation and details of the flap covering the airline connector. Could finally solve 78 year old mystery!

[Charlie Down]

As an after thought. If there was a flap below the LHS door in the bodywork, was it a standard fitting and therefore wouldn't there be a replacement piece of bodywork with a flap in it to fit the compressor kit? If so, it would be in a catalogue, vehicle manual, or something similar. Does anyone have that information, and could you post the picture or details to finally put this to bed please. TIA

[Charlie Down]

In this photo there seems to be an outline of a flap, maybe a knockout plate on a MCP Chevrolet Truck. Its quite faint. I hope that the PTO compressor kit came with a modified panel as shown to allow a flap to be fitted discreetly to a truck.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Charlie Down

You mean this one Hanno? And thank you Hanno for your help and advice.

Here's what could be the only photo of the PTO air compressor being used on a LRDG truck. Unfortunately you can't see where the airline goes, but it could be under the truck to the connector on the LHS of the cab. I like to think so....

Does anyone have photo's of the relevant area LHS lower door frame and running board ) to show confirmation and details of the flap covering the airline connector. Could finally solve 78 year old mystery!

Am I imagining things, or is that an air-line going up the front of the seat riser? Looks like it might fit down into the space below the seat (I am referring to the photo in post #114 above).

[Grant Bowker]

Based on my belief that only one air outlet was provided on Chevrolet CMPs equipped with the air pump, it would surprise me if there were more than one provided on a MCP. Not saying it is impossible, just seems unlikely. I would have expected them to run the hose around the truck, under the truck, or through the cab - whichever seemed easiest to the crew at the time.

[Tony Smith]

On CMP's, the the installation of the the PTO pump involved nothing more than drilling a hole in the floor to insert a screwdriver to engage the pump, and fitting the pump to the transmission. A copper pipe ran from the pump to the air fitting, which was screwed through an existing hole in the frame. An experienced Driver/Mechanic could probably fit it in 15 minutes.

On the MCP, I can't believe there was anything as fancy or elaborate as modified body panels, knockouts or flaps. Too much work. The simplicity of Canadian vehicles was their forte.

I think we've been staring at the fitting all along and not wanted to see it, expecting something sexier than just an exposed fitting, but there it is.

[Charlie Down]

Hi Andrew and Grant,
That could be an airline on Post 114, but a bit vague to be confirmed. Adds to the mystery. Attached photo shows what could be an airline behind the driver's seat near the rifle mount, not sure if that helps or not, although it focuses the area of the cab for its location. 6" of pipe not much to work on though.
The parts sheet only shows one airline connector from the pump, so only one connector makes sense.
Looking at the problem from another angle. If it was my truck, where would I want the connector located for easy access and connection, centrally on the truck? In the cab, obviously, not on the floor where it could be stepped on and kicked/pick up dirt and be a trip hazard. Not under a flap that could be damaged, knocked off or jammed. Not too low down so that I have to move stowage to get to it. Most likely I would mount it on the inside of the side panel of the cab on the LHS. I most likely wouldn't mount it under a flap on the side of the cab below the door.
MCP and CMP trucks were simple practical designs. the flap is out of character. It was a standard kit to fit MCP trucks, most of which had doors fitted, so access would require the door open and you would need to hold the door open to stop it slamming onto the hose and connector and damaging them.
But in that case what was the flap for? Have I mis-interpreted the original photo of the flap? Are there photos of CMP airline connectors fitted to trucks?
Are there specific panels to fit under the door with a flap on them? Sounds a complicated way to fit the kit if you have to remove a panel and weld/bolt a new one in to fit the connector.
More questions than answers! If pushed I would go for the flap arrangement purely because there is evidence for it, but I'm not convinced yet.