Centurion Arrives in BC

[Aide Memoire]

Originally Posted by rob love

Or could it have been a British used Centurion rescued from being a target in Wainwright or Suffield. Did the British operate in those two locations in the 70s (certainly they did in Suffield)? We certainly did see British supplied armour on the ranges throughout the 80s and onwards. And we have seen some of that make it's way out as monuments, often set up to represent Canadian service.

Yeah...another very real possibility. Supposedly there exists a number of photos of the (somewhat unauthorized ) range recovery, rail shipment to Seaforths, and pics in the then-compound there, but while everyone's talked about them - I've yet to see any. If there are any markings or unique paintwork in those pics - that might help - but unfortunately that was also the Kodak Instamatic generation and everything from those things is always out of focus. And orange.

[Dennis Cardy]

Paid a quick visit to the Aldergrove Legion today, Thurs. 28 Nov, 2019.
They are very happy about the Centurion project.

I was shown the spot where it will be placed. High visibility, right next to busy main road through the middle of Aldergrove.
Next to the Cenotaph, where the sign, flag pole, and the concrete pavers are.

In a collaborative move, the Legion and Maj.(CF) Newby, are seeking Govt. and other funding sources, to construct the pad,
as the pavers might be a tad under strength. A nearby CF Base has been contacted for engineering specs.
Too bad Rob Love wasn't here. His extensive knowledge of monument installation would be useful.

A lot going on behind the scenes to make it all happen.

We did not discuss its provenance.

Cheers.

[Aide Memoire]

Originally Posted by Dennis Cardy

Paid a quick visit to the Aldergrove Legion today, Thurs. 28 Nov, 2019.
They are very happy about the Centurion project.

I was shown the spot where it will be placed. High visibility, right next to busy main road through the middle of Aldergrove. Next to the Cenotaph, where the sign, flag pole, and the concrete pavers are.

Unfortunately that did not progress because of a bunch of reasons that are all spelled "liability". Seems to be happening with a lot of existing monuments too as entities start fearing they'll be sued if some visitor rediscovers the law of gravity while climbing on it. As a result the whole cosmetic rehab project stalled at the same time and is still struggling to get back nearer the top of the Job Jar.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

Unfortunately that did not progress because of a bunch of reasons that are all spelled "liability". Seems to be happening with a lot of existing monuments too as entities start fearing they'll be sued if some visitor rediscovers the law of gravity while climbing on it. As a result the whole cosmetic rehab project stalled at the same time and is still struggling to get back nearer the top of the Job Jar.

Where is the Centurion now?

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

Yeah...another very real possibility. Supposedly there exists a number of photos of the (somewhat unauthorized ) range recovery, rail shipment to Seaforths, and pics in the then-compound there, but while everyone's talked about them - I've yet to see any. If there are any markings or unique paintwork in those pics - that might help - but unfortunately that was also the Kodak Instamatic generation and everything from those things is always out of focus. And orange.

More assumptions. How do you know the photographs were taken from Kodak Instamatics if you have not seem them? I used a Canon FTB 35mm SLR in the 1970s and my photographs are crystal clear.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

Yeah...another very real possibility. Supposedly there exists a number of photos of the (somewhat unauthorized ) range recovery, rail shipment to Seaforths, and pics in the then-compound there, but while everyone's talked about them - I've yet to see any. If there are any markings or unique paintwork in those pics - that might help - but unfortunately that was also the Kodak Instamatic generation and everything from those things is always out of focus. And orange.

To that end, look for some of the Canadian modifications. A vehicle as large and cumbersome as a Cent will have been Canadianized to some degree.



An related example is the Canadian ferrets. There were a number of modifications, including the welding of different blocks on the hull so the 5 pound Ansul extinguisher brackets could be installed. Another was the installation of different passage points for the rear tail light wiring. There are a half dozen more official and unofficial modifications that differentiate the Canadian Ferret from the UK ferrets. I have no doubt there must be similar changes for the centurions, and if you find the Canadian modifications on them, then that may lend to it's Cdn lineage.

[jdmcm]

Hey Dennis and Andy

so awesome that the tank is going to be on display for everyone to see! Perhaps some kind of fundraiser is in order to help pay for the required display? I have no idea what that would cost but there must be a fellow victim of green fever in the area who specializes in concrete? Is the tank exterior complete? looks pretty good from what I have seen, I do have a few external bits I could donate if required to make sure she is turned out complete.

Anyway, I know there is a some question of its provenance, but honestly it is a Centurion, the first one we will have here in BC on display that I know of, which is fantastic! Keep up the good work.

Regards
John

[Aide Memoire]

The bins have the bottoms rotted out of them for the most part, and the sheet metal above the tracks needs to be replaced entirely, but it's all flat stock. Everything else is excellent right down to the road wheels.

Found something interesting. Anthony Sewards posted a pic of the data plate of the Cent he's involved with which has the Serial No. and British VRN number side-by-side but not the CFR (I've asked if he knows it.)

Serial No. of that Cent: 134-190 'March 1952'
Serial No. of our Cent: 142-190

To me, as logical guesswork, that looks like it was a run of 190 tanks for that particular block, and the two tanks are 8 serial numbers apart. Anthony's tank has the British VRN 07 BA 11, which is part of a contiguous block of VRNs not assigned in my list which has nothing from 06 BA 38 right through 07 BA 25 connected to anything English or Australian. Making an *enormous* leap-of-faith, that might make ours 07 BA 19, but as Ed said - things wind up out of sequence all the time for whatever reason.

Either way it would seem to make it made in the same batch around March 1952 as Anthony's one - which would include it among the ones built new for Canada and not any Korean retread.

One other interesting thing...I didn't track back the MIKAN numbers, but back to that one pic from Harold's site:

http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/s...o--4234066.jpg

Ed seems quite correct in that the 1964 date is most certainly wrong. I think it's RCDs right after they took delivery of the first Centurions as per this:

"The first 21 Centurions were delivered to the Royal Canadian Dragoons in Germany in March 1952, where they served with the Canadian contingent of the NATO forces based there."

Which would explain both the earlier sequence number "CDN 03 BA 47" and the lack of a (well...visible at least) CFR.

I have some more turret pics to post in a separate post.

[Aide Memoire]

Originally Posted by jdmcm

Hey Dennis and Andy

so awesome that the tank is going to be on display for everyone to see! Perhaps some kind of fundraiser is in order to help pay for the required display? (...) I do have a few external bits I could donate if required to make sure she is turned out complete.

Cheers. That's very generous of you. Everything certainly helps!

Not entirely sure what the timeline is. I know there was considerable site-prep dialogue and pressure to speed things along directly after R-day...but to me that's kind of at odds with having to do extensive sheet metal work and painting...outside...in the dead of Winter. Unless between the Legion, City and...higher headquarters here...someone's come up with a plan to contract both out that I'm unaware of. I'm more than happy to wait until the weather gets to the point I don't have to thin paint 300:1 to get it through the gun.