How To: Ford CMP "Blitz" miscellany

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

Here is another project I finished over the winter.

A year ago I looked at ways to repair rust holes in the diaphragm on a Ford horn. I put it on the back burner as I do when a solution doesn't quickly spring to mind.

A replacement diaphragm was not forthcoming so I thought of ways to seal the holes at least to prevent ingress of water. I discounted solder as that would probably fall out over time with vibration. Brazing or welding was out due to the possible heat effect on the diaphragm which I think is type of spring steel or tempered steel to allow for it to flex during vibration.

I found some vinyl inflatable pool patches in the shed and thought that might be a solution if glued to the diaphragm. Being thin, Light weight, and flexible it should not greatly affect the resonance of the diaphragm.

I tested a piece of it on a tin can using Sika Flex contact adhesive and it took all my strength to pull it of after it cured so I gave it a go.

It stuck well, and after reassembly and putting it across a 6V charger it blurted out a loud sound for the first time I would imagine in quite a few decades. Looking at the original condition I really didn't think it would work so it was a very pleasant surprise.

Cheers,

[David Herbert]

Well done Jacques, a very creative solution !

David

[Jacques Reed]

Thanks David, Dont think I will have any problems with the horn. Won't be using it in Rome or Mexico City where the horns get more hours on them than the engines!

Jumping back to the transmission rebuild, I am almost ready to finish it off. I was awaiting some new clutch cross shaft bushings which just came. I also have a NOS cross shaft to use in the gear case. The shaft and bushings can be subject to quite a bit of wear and therefore sloppiness as shown in the photo.
Found a couple interesting things about the bushings: There are two sizes of them for Ford Flatheads: 0.945" OD and 1.000" OD. My truck uses the smaller OD type. I also found two types of material used: Solid bronze, and steel backed bronze lining. See the attached photo. The newly manufactured one is on the right, original steel backed on left, and original solid in middle.

I seem to remember long ago tapping the steel backed ones carefully into a case with the shaft installed to prevent damage. I am not so confident to do that to the softer solid bronze new ones without crumpling them. Presently started turning up a guide tool to pull them into the case instead, and yes. threaded rod will be used again.

Will post results when done but truck work is on hold for a week or so as I look after my four-legged best friend after some surgery last week.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

Well, I finished my bushing guide tool on the lathe yesterday. My buddy is no longer wearing an Elizabethan collar so I could spend more time in the shed.

I was going to make it out of brass but then thought it was a bit of overkill so used a piece of 25mm nylon rod I had laying around.

Simple design: the pilot end has a section the same diameter as the inside of the bushing and a section the same diameter as the outside of the bushing. This ensures the bushing is pulled straight at all times. Two collars for the pulling end: one with the same diameter as the outside diameter of the bushing to install the first bushing, and one with same diameter as the inside diameter of the bushing to install the second bushing. Six mudguard washers and 4 nuts for the 3/8 UNC threaded rod finishes it off.

It worked a treat! A bit of 3 in One oil for lube and they pulled in nicely.

Not a lot of force on the spanners was required but I am convinced the solid bronze bushings would not just tap in without damage so I am glad I went to the extra trouble. No more shake, rattle, and roll on the cross shaft!

Hope this is of some interest.

Cheers

[Ganmain Tony]

As always Jacques
Need to do that very shortly myself..

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

Thanks. Here are the before and after photos with the new gears, shafts, and bearings installed. Nice to finally have a transmission that matches the type of truck I have.

PM me when you want to do your bushings. I can probably send you just the nylon bits to keep the postage down if you want to borrow them. Bunnings has the threaded rod.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

Another loose end crossed off from this past winter.

I decided to replace my front spring clips (U-bolts) with the ones from the parts truck. The main reason being the parts truck is an original F15-A but the restoration project started from what I believe to be bits cobbled together by previous owners so I am not sure if the clips are the originals. The other factor is I just prefer the look of the the full-nuts and half-nuts. There is a bit more thread engagement too, with the full-nut compared to a slotted-nut which can only be beneficial. It is not uncommon to have wastage on the threads near the cotter pins of the slotted-nut type clips.

The parts truck used full-nuts and jamming half-nuts to secure the clips to the front axle. The project truck used slotted-nuts and cotter pins. A friend who has a dozen trucks said about half his used slotted-nuts and half had the full-nut and half-nuts for securing the clips.

The two types of clips are show and differ in length by about 1/4"

Could not find a torque setting for the nuts in the Ford CMP Maintenance Manual but checking my GM CMP Maintenance Manual they gave 90 Ft lbs for those nuts. That is what I torqued them to and applied a bit of Locktite just to the half-nuts as added precaution against them coming off. They are not the kind of thing you find at the local nut and bolt supplier if they go missing.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

Ticked off another loose end. Started fabricating the last fuel line a while back but got a bit sidetracked with the transmission rebuild.

So yesterday I finished off the fuel line from the left side fuel tank to the changeover valve. Again, the parts truck junk was invaluable as a pattern. The clip that holds it to the running board support adaptor was too wasted to reuse so another small fabrication job was required.

So that completed all my Bundy tube bending for the truck. fuel lines, brake lines and even the lines to and from the bypass oil filter. Must be quite a few metres all up not including the lines I redid after getting corrected information.

Time now for a Bundy and Coke! Bundaberg that is.

Cheers,

[Keith Webb]

A well deserved Bundy I think... don't forget the ice!

[Mike Cecil]

Well done, Jacques.

But I'm a bit green with envy ... one of the few Aussie items I cannot obtain in the USA is Bundy (and I don't mean the tubing!!)

Best regards

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

And not Ginger beer either. Right Mike?

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mike,

That is surprising, thought they would be worldwide as they have greatly grown the business in the last few years.

Saw a good documentary on the company maybe 9 months ago on the TV. Can't remember what channel it was on. That doesn't do you much good however!!

Cheers,

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Well done, Jacques.

But I'm a bit green with envy ... one of the few Aussie items I cannot obtain in the USA is Bundy (and I don't mean the tubing!!)

Best regards

Mike

To paraphrase Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson:
"You want answers?",
"I want a bottle of Bundy",
"You can't handle the Bundy!"
It's simply too much for the American palate, like Vegemite.

Anyway, sending you some Christmas Cheer and bottled Queensland Sunshine.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Tony, and a Merry Christmas to you and all my MLU associates, too! Three bottles on Bundy ....mmmmm!

Lynn, the Bundaberg Ginger Beer is available from a place called World Market (along with Vegemite, but only occasionally).

Jacques, the US governmental attitude to 'hard liquor' is odd to an Australian. It is treated differently than wine & beer.

Mike

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day All,

It is a cold, wet, self-isolation kinda day so I thought I would share some info I discovered recently. Perhaps many others know this but it may be of some help to someone else starting out.

I always thought the engine mounting bolts were the same size as the front cabin mounting bolts but I knew the rear cabin mounting bolt was a bit shorter.
I was doing a test fit on the right standard Ford engine mount and found the bolt was not long enough to allow the earth strap to attach to it and still engage the hole with the slotted nut (not castellated nut, they are different).
Pulling out a tin of salvaged mounting bolts I found four different versions of them as per attached photo. First two on left are engine bolts and last three are cab mounting bolts.

When all else fails read the Parts Manual. Sure enough, there are four different bolts used in these two locations. Three of them with the * unique to CMP vehicles in the list.

I have added the following notes and table I made up for my own reference:

Engine and cab mounting bolts:
Despite similar appearance there are 4 types of bolts. The rubber isolators however seem to be the same at all locations. See following:

Engine mounting bolt-right seems to be a standard Ford part. Engine- left is unique to CMP’s. Probably the extra length is to accommodate the engine earth strap under the nut. Believe Parts Manual got it wrong. Right side has the earth strap and needs a slightly longer bolt. The Drivers handbook also shows a longer bolt on the left side but has the strap on the right side! There is however a hole in the same relative location on the left engine crossmember for an earth strap so it could be placed there.
The shorter shoulder height is used on the engine as it goes through thinner gauge steel on the engine crossmember. The longer shoulder height on the cab mounting bolts is to accommodate the thicker cast steel support arms at the front and the doubler plate on the rear cab channel support bracket.

Hope this is of some interest.

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

I am presently trying to sort out my speedo cable on my F-15A equipped with a late war round speedo.

I bought a NOS cable years ago which is 119" long. I remember reading on MLU the cable length should be 84" so mine is extra long. I also have a F-15 cable which is 74" long, so 84" sounds the correct length allowing for the extra distance to the xfer case on a F-15A instead of the rear of the transmission.

Searched all my Ford publications and could find nothing about the routing other than perhaps the image attached which seems to show what looks like a speedo cable going behind the handbrake bracket at the transmission. When I tried the F-15 cable going that way there is a long run out in the open above the engine before it gets to the cowl opening. And that is leaving it 10" short of the speedo.

Another interesting thing I discovered is that Ford changed the design of the front idler bearing cap to re-orient the cable more nearly horizontal. Earlier caps had the cable entering vertically which resulted in a sharp bend at the xfer case crossmember. C01Q 19818 is the vertical one and C29Q 19818 is the horizontal one.

I am thinking maybe I should run the long cable through the same opening as the wiring to the rear chassis to use up some of the length. No publication show a speedo cable there however.

Also shown is the different ends at the speedometer. Round gauge at top and Ford type below. Not interchangeable.

Anyone have experience with the cable routing on a late war speedo?

Cheers,

[Lynn Eades]

Jacques, my 41 to 47 Canadian commercial parts book lists casings at:
60.8"
103"
54"
92"
68"
and lastly at 61" long
How any of these match up to CMPs, I have no idea.
The LP2 and LP2A Australian carrier used a 51F-17261 case and a 51F- 17262 shaft. I can't find a length.
Any part numbers on your cable?
Not sure this helps you in any way, but I wondered.

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Another interesting thing I discovered is that Ford changed the design of the front idler bearing cap to re-orient the cable more nearly horizontal. Earlier caps had the cable entering vertically which resulted in a sharp bend at the xfer case crossmember.

A simiilar change from vertical entry to horizontal entry took place on Chevrolet CMPs (in 1942 based on serial numbers given). There is a service bulletin covering adding a curved guide to the vertical style on Chevrolets to reduce the chances of kinking. I've no idea whether a similar kit existed for Fords.

The same service bulletin gives lengths of speedometer casing as 95" and cable or shaft as 96" to 96-1/4".


For more on Chevrolet speedometer cables see Phil Waterman's site https://www.canadianmilitarypattern....ge%20Notes.htm which includes a photo of the cable guide.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Jacques, my 41 to 47 Canadian commercial parts book lists casings at:
60.8"
103"
54"
92"
68"
and lastly at 61" long
How any of these match up to CMPs, I have no idea.
The LP2 and LP2A Australian carrier used a 51F-17261 case and a 51F- 17262 shaft. I can't find a length.
Any part numbers on your cable?
Not sure this helps you in any way, but I wondered.

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for that information. Will have a look at the cable today for a part number.
Parts Manual list the casing as *C29Q 17261 for late model cabs. Another part unique to CMP's

Of interest: The cable was purchased from a dealer who's father bought up tons of surplus items after the war from the Ford factory in Geelong Vic.
I had thought it possibly was from another wartime Ford truck but not sure if any were fitted with the round gauges other than the CMP's.
If it was a carrier cable the length seems more likely, but the speedometer end would not fit a Ford instrument cluster. Perhaps Lynn you can answer if any carriers were fitted with the round military speedometers and gauges.
I really don't want to shorten it but it is excessively long for a F-15A. To use it, I have to run it along the right chassis rail, past the radiator, back to the cowl opening for the harness and then to the speedo. Running it along the handbrake bracket, like in the sketch, I wind up with about a metre of cable inside the cowl!

Thanks Grant also for that info and link.

Cheers,

[Keith Webb]

Jacques as far as I'm aware all Australian built carriers used the Ford commercial type dash.
Interesting story about the dealer who bought the Ford spares!

[Mike Cecil]

Ford, like many other companies, were contracted to assemble other imported models as well, such as Ford GPA, Ford GPW, etc, and other US military pattern types which had round gauges. So a stack of parts disposed of from Ford Geelong may well have had other models and even makes mixed in amongst them.

Then there were the boats, landing craft and other equipment that Ford were involved with that also used a speedo type drive for measuring rpm, etc. Lots of possibilities.

Mike

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Any part numbers on your cable?

Hi Lynn,

Just has a good look. No part numbers on the cable. As Mike said, Ford assembled many other vehicles during the war so it could be for anything. Wonder how standard the fittings at xfer cases and transmissions were between manufacturers? We know it fits Fords but are others the same?

I am of the belief now just to us it as is and route it with large radiii through the chassis and clip it to keep it off wires etc. It was obviously designed to work at that length on some vehicle so no need to shorten it to make it work any better.

Yes, Keith, it was a great place, an "Aladdin's Cave" back in the 90's. I made three-monthly pilgrimages there between times at sea for many years. It closed over 15 years ago. I got NOS transmission gears, spring pins and bushings, crankcase breather filter, head gaskets, and front shock absorbers, just to name a few. He had a bin of rear spring pins still wrapped in grease paper and when he needed some round stock to turn up he would use them. Enough to make this grown man cry! Luckily I got some when the bin was still half full.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

While working on sorting out my speedo cable I had an idea that perhaps a Ford commercial truck speedometer driven gear might work in the single speed transfer case despite the Parts Manual identifying it as unique to CMP's.

I had recently sold an F-15 transmission and took photos of the speedometer gear used at the back of the transmission for the buyer. See first photo. If I could use a similar commercial gear then the drive cable end at the transfer case would be a simple formed square in the cable instead of a keyhole fitting which would make shortening the cable simpler.

The F-15 uses a 20 tooth driven gear but I could find no info on the number of teeth on a F-15A. So I removed the gear sleeve and driven gear to see what it looked like. See second photo. Surprisingly it is only a 15 tooth gear so it sure is unique to CMP's! Most Ford commercial truck speedometer gears are 18, 19, or 20 tooth. The F-15A gear is very different in other aspects also.
I then wondered why the big discrepancy in the number of teeth as an F-15 has a 6.66:1 diff and the F-15A a 6.50:1 diff. Very similar ratios and both use 16" wheels. Probably caused by the difference of number of teeth on the speedometer drive gear in the two vehicle types but I didn't have the number for a F-15.

I found a good device to determine number of teeth required for a speedometer gear on the Summit Racing website.
Inputting 4 teeth for drive gear- known from Parts Manual.
6.27 for diff ratio- (27/28 x 6.50 to allow for 27 teeth on driven gears in transfer case and 28 teeth on the idler where the speedometer gears are).
34"- for the tyre diameter as measured.

And Bingo 14.86 teeth!

Hope this is of some interest.

Cheers

[Ganmain Tony]

Fantastic information Jacques.

I must say I have never gone to this much trouble to document this information and I am finding it very useful.

Have you looked into Oil filters for the original system on an F15/F15A? I'm keen to learn what you may already know.

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

I have attached a link to a post I made in 2017 on Lynx42 thread.
Think all is still relevant especially for procuring parts in Australia.

Couple extra points: They are bypass and not full flow filters.
I have heard of people drilling out the orifice in the input side of the filter cannister in some misguided belief of better oil flow. A real no, no, as that restriction allows the oil pressure to build up to the designed amount. Drill it out and the pressure drops in the system.

Thanks Tony I document everything for whoever has the truck after me and to hopefully assist others now.

Cheers,

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...7&postcount=17

[Mike Cecil]

Instruction sheet that came with a Ford oil filter set. I remember the bracket shown did not suit a CMP, but there was a pressed steel bracket that mounted on two of the top line of engine head bolts that did fit. When I installed the oil filter on my CMP, I used an outlet connection into the side of the sump, rather than into the oil filler/engine breather.

The block I used had a tapped hole with a plug in it below the oil pressure gauge boss. If a block doesn't have that (and many don't), it would be easier to install a 'T' below the oil pressure gauge than to drill and tap a hole into the gallery.

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Mike, I would have assumed that all Ford flathead v8s had a plug there because the plug blanks off the cross drilling to the main gallery.

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

As Mike described here are the lines to and from the Oil Conditioner. My two C69A blocks both have the two holes in the block for the oil line and the sending unit.
Both have the sump with the side entry point elbow for the return oil line so I would say they were definitely truck engines either civilian or military.

Both oil lines are just good old 1/4" Bundy tube. I have a set of hoses used by Canadian and British Arm units, C11Q 18669 A and B. Rechecking my Parts List it says they were used on the earlier vehicles. They obviously switched to tubing for the Cab 13's. I acquired them here in Australia but also due to their age I used tubing instead. Very interesting fittings on the ends of them.

Cheers,

[Ganmain Tony]

Mike and Jacques,

Many many thanks - invaluable information for anyone rebuilding a V8.

Jacques there appears to be a third oil line??? Or is that my imagination??

At the bottom of the filter? Are you able to take some more pictures for me please?

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

Your eyes are not deceiving you. I jury rigged a line from the bottom of the cannister to the sending unit hole. Thought it might be good way to pressurize the system before starting but then I thought the force put on the cap might not be such a good idea. Could only imagine everything nearby covered in oil if the cap blew. Some ideas should never see the light of day! Should have removed that line for the picture, likewise in the two attached. Only a sending unit goes in that hole.

Cheers,