3" Mortar Carrier

[Brian Johns]

Hi
I'm new to the carrier forum.
Currently restoring a British riveted 3" Mortar Carrier here in New Zealand.
I 've been able to research some of it's history thanks to it's brass plate, No.T84089.
I obtained a copy of it's contract card from the Bovington Tank Museum, this told me it was one of 2000 made by the Wolseley Motor Company.
What I'm not sure of is the type of carrier, I've always believed it to be a Mk1, can any one help with this information.

Brian

[Tony Smith]

How about a Pic, Brian? Does it look like this? There should be a vehicle type stated on the brass data plate.

[Brian Johns]

Tony
thanks for the reply, I take it those carriers are in NZ, by the looks.
Yes it will look just like that, at the moment it's stripped down ready for sand blasting.
The brass plate reads CARRIER 3 INCH MORTAR W.D.No T84089
What I would like to know is what Mk it is I, II or III and if possible what type of Ford V8 it would have had 30hp, 60hp or 85hp.
I'll try and get some images on soon, it's a genuine top to bottom restoration.

[Tony Smith]

You might need to ask Nigel Watson's opinion on the designation. Nigel has authored the Carrier Platoon site.

[Nigel Watson]

Hi Brian
Congrats at restoring a Mortar Carrier. There is one for sale over here, maybe been sold now, the only MkI I know of in the UK.

Here are the details of yours.
It is a Universal Carrier 3" Mortar No.1 MkII. Made by Wolseley to Contract No. 2251. One of a batch of 2000 made between 13/05/41 and 16/03/42 (T82618-84617)

Hope this helps in your quest for a wee bit more history.

Regards
Nigel

[Brian Johns]

Nigel
thanks for the info, appreciate it.
It's taken me a couple of years gathering bits and pieces and now I'm ready to start the restoration process, it'll probably take 2 years to reassemble it.

regards
Brian

[alleramilitaria]

no way, if you have the bits you should be squashing kiwis in afew months

did you install the bits i sent you yet?

thanks
dave

[Brian Johns]

Hi Dave
It'll be a while before I install any bits, I was just thinking ahead when I purchased the cam pieces from you, however I was in the process of taking the axle out at the time.
I think there is a law against squashing kiwis.

regards
Brian

[alleramilitaria]

i wont tell if you dont.
and no excuses about taking 2 years to get the carrier running :

i got my carrier running in 3 months (with the wife overseas)

ausi women are great

dave

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
aussie women are great

dave

Careful, Dave, you're talking to a Kiwi there...

[alleramilitaria]

but i was told that NZ was a state of OZ???. thats what the wife says. and i get to hear that aussies are gods gift. im not going to argue, she oked the purchas of another carrier today, gota love that.

[Brian Johns]

Careful Dave them fighting words, what did one of our great prime ministers say about kiwis leaving our fine shores to live in OZ that it lifted the IQ of both countries.

Brian

[Nigel Watson]

You two are as bad as the Picts and yon others over the wall over here!! Brian any idea of how the Mortar Carrier got over to NZ? Do you know if it has been used in anger?

Nigel

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
but i was told that NZ was a state of OZ???. thats what the wife says. and i get to hear that aussies are gods gift. im not going to argue, she oked the purchas of another carrier today, gota love that.

Kinda like the difference between Murricuns and Canajuns, or Scots, Irish and English. You can get into a lot of trouble here....

[alleramilitaria]

its all in good fun
you have to smile

and truth be told if you are on this forum you are a little silly anyway. who else would be touched enugh to drive around in a "baby tank".

take care
dave

[Brian Johns]

the ribbing that goes on between Aussies and Kiwis is always in good fun, I spent 7 of my best years in Newcastle NSW and probably have more Aussie friends than I do Kiwi ones.
At the end of the day the bond we have as nations forged all those years ago in Turkey is as strong today as it was then.

Nigel
the NZ govt from 1939 took delivery 6 Bren Carriers, 54 Universal Carriers, 111 Mortar Carriers, one each Australian LP1 and LP2 and 21 Loyd Carriers. Note this list my be slightly inaccurate.
There is some evidence my carrier was possibly with NZ 3rd Division which went to the islands in 1943, Guadalcanal and Solomons, but I've yet to prove it.
Most of the Mortar Carriers were used in the Recce Regiments set up as anti-invasion units during the war.

Nigel
when you say my Mortar Carrier is a No.1 MkII, does the No.1 mean Mk1?

regards
Brian

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by Brian Johns
Nigel
when you say my Mortar Carrier is a No.1 MkII, does the No.1 mean Mk1?

regards
Brian

The No.1 donates the engine fitted on the original machine. My Carrier correct nomenclature is Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*. The No.3 stands for the Ford Canadian V8 C01UC-6097 ANH. Your No.1 stands for the British made Ford V8 79E-6004 CS or DS. The CS is fitted with American electrical equipment and the DS is fitted with Lucas electrical equipment. British spark plugs fitted should be 18mm (American and Canadian were 14mm) I knew we were brighter sparks!!!!

Is this anorack stuff or what? You'll all be heads down, bum in the air inspecting those plugs I bet!!!

Nigel

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Brian Johns
the ribbing that goes on between Aussies and Kiwis is always in good fun, I spent 7 of my best years in Newcastle NSW and probably have more Aussie friends than I do Kiwi ones.
At the end of the day the bond we have as nations forged all those years ago in Turkey is as strong today as it was then.

Kiwis and Aussies do get on great. You're right about the strong ANZAC bond. However, it pays an Aussie not to mention underarm bowling, Rugby, the number 6, or the Topp Twins, or why Sam Neill, Russel Crowe, or the Finn Brothers should be regarded as Aussies. I don't know why everyone asks if I come from Orsetraaaaaya. What a dag, eh?

Originally posted by Brian Johns
Nigel
There is some evidence my carrier was possibly with NZ 3rd Division which went to the islands in 1943, Guadalcanal and Solomons, but I've yet to prove it.

The Divisional sign for the 3rd NZ Div was a Kiwi, which was later re-used by the Royal NZ Regiment from the '50s. Could your Mortar Carrier have still been in '50s or '60s service with RNZR also?

Originally posted by Brian Johns
Nigel
The NZ govt from 1939 took delivery 6 Bren Carriers, 54 Universal Carriers, 111 Mortar Carriers, one each Australian LP1 and LP2 and 21 Loyd Carriers. Note this list my be slightly inaccurate. When you say my Mortar Carrier is a No.1 MkII, does the No.1 mean Mk1?

regards
Brian

Did NZ take delivery of the UC's and Mortar Carriers in North Africa and Italy, or were they delivered to NZ? In addition to these imports, Jeff Plowman has said "There were a total of 45 LP1, 315 LP2 and 855 LP2A carriers produced in New Zealand."
The 6 Brens were actually "Carrier, Bren, No2 Mk1" of 1938 build.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Nigel
Your No.1 stands for the British made Ford V8 79E-6004 CS or DS. The CS is fitted with American electrical equipment and the DS is fitted with Lucas electrical equipment. British spark plugs fitted should be 18mm (American and Canadian were 14mm) I knew we were brighter sparks!!!!

Is this anorack stuff or what? You'll all be heads down, bum in the air inspecting those plugs I bet!!!

Nigel

Do the British ignitions use sealed/waterproof supressed leads like that found on the later Ferrets, etc? This Mortar Carrier had unusually large plugs with sealed leads and Lucas gear all over it.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi All
According to Mike Cecil's Book on Carriers, the two Carriers sent to New Zealand were LP1 Hull No. 144 and LP2 Hull No. 203 the latter being sent over on 29/05/1941. That's why Kiwi Carriers are so good, they copied the Oz Carriers.

Bob

[Brian Johns]

The Divisional sign for the 3rd NZ Div was a Kiwi, which was later re-used by the Royal NZ Regiment from the '50s. Could your Mortar Carrier have still been in '50s or '60s service with RNZR also?

Tony
My carrier was purchased privately in 1948, I believe the NZ army sold all or most of there riveted carriers during 1946

Did NZ take delivery of the UC's and Mortar Carriers in North Africa and Italy, or were they delivered to NZ? In addition to these imports, Jeff Plowman has said "There were a total of 45 LP1, 315 LP2 and 855 LP2A carriers produced in New Zealand."
The 6 Brens were actually "Carrier, Bren, No2 Mk1" of 1938 build.

All the imported carriers arrived here as far as I know, I don't think the NZ army transported carriers anywhere overseas apart from the Island operations later in the war. But I'm not an expert on this subject, Jeff is.

The No.1 donates the engine fitted on the original machine. My Carrier correct nomenclature is Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*. The No.3 stands for the Ford Canadian V8 C01UC-6097 ANH. Your No.1 stands for the British made Ford V8 79E-6004 CS or DS. The CS is fitted with American electrical equipment and the DS is fitted with Lucas electrical equipment. British spark plugs fitted should be 18mm (American and Canadian were 14mm) I knew we were brighter sparks!!!!

Is this anorack stuff or what? You'll all be heads down, bum in the air inspecting those plugs I bet!!!

Nigel

Nigel
Thanks for the info, now I have to look for a British V8, it took me all this time to find a Canadian 85hp model, what does one look for when looking for a British model.


regards
Brian