My CMP restoration

[Jon Bradshaw]

Hello all. I have begun to work on a CMP that was in very good condition to look at but not so hot once it got stripped down. I bought it already taken apart but the first pics are as it was bought by the previous owner. It was too much of a project and so he sold it to me in boxes and bits.
The truck was put back to a running chassis so I could load it on my trailer and drive it into my garage, after that I took the engine off and re-did the rear crank seal as it was leaking. The tranny seems ok and the transfer case needs a new gasket but overall it ran well.
I am now down to the brakes and have ordered new wheel cylinders for all 4. The master cylinder may be salvageable so I am waiting to see how the wheels go before doing it. The back axle is too long for me to pull the brake drums. You need to remove the axle shaft to get it out??? (it hits my side walls) so doing the front then moving the truck over and doing one side at a time on the back . The joys of a small shop....
The water tank I am using to make this common troop truck into a water truck is in very good shape and I will take care to refurbish all the bits before reassembling the pumps and filter cans (yes I have those elusive bits) they are not a matched set but better than none at all.... The tank came out of ON and I hauled it out here.
More details to come. I know you all like photos....

[Jon Bradshaw]

Here are some more pics of the tank and the bits.

[Owen Evans]

Nice project Jon!

Glad to hear you have the hand pumps and filters. Can you tell us what make your water filters are? Just curious to see if the Canadian ones were made by the same companies that made the British filters, or if they were maybe built under licence?

And please keep the photos coming!

Owen.

[Pete Ashby]

Look forward to following your project Jon,

like Owen I have an interest in seeing the ancillary fittings to the tank

Pete

[Jon Bradshaw]

Here are the requested photos of the filter casings and the pumps. They have not been cleaned up yet but you can see the shape they are in.
The 1941 case was made in Belleville Ontario and is of a much higher quality. Riveted construction and better galvanizing. The inside is almost perfect.
The 1942 case was made in London Ontario and is of a much lower quality spot welded and poor galvanizing, very rusty inside.
The pumps are a match set made by EMCO and no date or location of manufacture is visible.

[Jon Bradshaw]

Can anyone show me pictures of the water tap/spigots that go on the end of the pipes for filling canteens and water cans? Are they a specific kind/ brand? Not much info available on them. I have the manual with some really good schematics for the piping and it looks like they are single sided knobs.
The manual has lots of good info on operating the truck and good pictures for setting it up but doesn't mention what the pipes were made out of. I assume all the piping was made of galvanized steel, not copper. I wonder about using modern pipes since galvanized water pipe is no longer easily found. I could possibly use smaller chain link fence posts and top pipes with some threading work..... Or use copper and cover it with paint. I plan to use the truck with water and show it off with water in it so I want the pipes to work.

[Owen Evans]

Great info Jon, thanks for posting!

Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw

Can anyone show me pictures of the water tap/spigots that go on the end of the pipes for filling canteens and water cans? Are they a specific kind/ brand? Not much info available on them. I have the manual with some really good schematics for the piping and it looks like they are single sided knobs.
The manual has lots of good info on operating the truck and good pictures for setting it up but doesn't mention what the pipes were made out of. I assume all the piping was made of galvanized steel, not copper. I wonder about using modern pipes since galvanized water pipe is no longer easily found. I could possibly use smaller chain link fence posts and top pipes with some threading work..... Or use copper and cover it with paint. I plan to use the truck with water and show it off with water in it so I want the pipes to work.

That manual looks good; much more info than the British one. You should check out this thread:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=19723

Posts 15 to 17 contain the pages from the parts book for your water tank, which will help. I suspect you are correct that the pipe would have been galvanised; for mine, I intend to use steel pipe and malleable iron fittings. I felt copper would be too 'wobbly'.

From the parts list, the taps were "Crane No.800"; see attached photo. I've never managed to find any, though.

Do you also have the power pump? I believe the Canadian water tanks used a Fairbanks Morse 40A Typhoon pump, 700 Gallons per hour capacity. But I've never seen one installed, so not sure how they were installed.

Good luck!

Owen.

[Pete Ashby]

Thanks for photos of the filters and pumps Jon
at first look they are appear very similar to the British manufactured items

Thanks
Pete

[Peter Duggan]

Jon,

Great to see you off to such a positive start. Looking forward to your updates.

Peter

[David Dunlop]

Jon.

Perhaps antique and vintage plumbing supply shops might still carry similar water taps. Might be worth sending them photos of what you are looking for.

David

[maple_leaf_eh]

I know a wartime RCE field engineer, who besides being wonderful company and is a Legion comrade, worked his way from DDay to VEDay making roads, bridges and water. Stanley landed ahead of the assault waves in 5th Fd Coy RCE. His company was scattered in small parties all across the Canadian front, presumably to concentrate losses in one unit only.

Your tanker would be the sort of small transport that battalions and companies would need to get reliable water forward.

[Jon Bradshaw]

Thanks for the positive support so far.

I don't have the power pump for the PTO for this truck.

I would like to get a faucet from someone to carry around and show the supply shops but a picture like this is almost as good. Can I get a scale put beside it?

I also need the top for the filter cans, if someone has a top with the fittings on it for me to have a copy made or search for that would be great. I only have the pics out of the books.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw

Thanks for the positive support so far.

I don't have the power pump for the PTO for this truck.

I would like to get a faucet from someone to carry around and show the supply shops but a picture like this is almost as good. Can I get a scale put beside it?

I also need the top for the filter cans, if someone has a top with the fittings on it for me to have a copy made or search for that would be great. I only have the pics out of the books.

Here's some pictures of the tops off the British filters; I suspect the Canadian ones won't be too much different.

I don't have a tap to measure off, but they are 3/4" fittings. So the outside diameter of the threaded part will be approx. 1 inch. You should be able to work out the overall size of the tap from that.

Owen.

[Guy Verstrepen]

nice project there.

I am also working on a cmp water truck in Belgium.
and indeed I do not have pumps and filters anymore, they are very hard to find.
so I made replicas.
you can also view my project under restoration waterbowser.
very nice that there is still a cmp waterbowser and that he will soon tour and be exhibited to the public.

nice pictures by the way
greetings Guy

[Jon Bradshaw]

That series of pics of the filter tops is interesting. It appears to be from three separate pumps two of which are mounted on trucks. The rubber hose from the top to the tank is that correct? I thought it would have been steel like the rest? Now that I look closer I think I see that more of the piping is rubber than I had originally thought. That makes it easier.
Has anyone seen something that looks similar to those filter tops and might be modified to work?

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw

That series of pics of the filter tops is interesting. It appears to be from three separate pumps two of which are mounted on trucks. The rubber hose from the top to the tank is that correct? I thought it would have been steel like the rest? Now that I look closer I think I see that more of the piping is rubber than I had originally thought. That makes it easier.

Yes, there's quite a bit of rubber hose to consider. From the link to the parts list (in post #7 above):

Page 12-13 - part no. 9123. 3/4" hose (20" long)
Page 12-15 - part no. 9123. 3/4" hose (11", 27" and 45" long)
Page 12-17 - part no. 9123. 3/4" hose, no length given
Page 12-17 - part no. 9232. 1-1/2" hose, no length given
Page 12-17 - part no. 9162. 1-1/4" hose, no length given

Then there's two 25-foot lengths of 3/4" hose for the suction hoses that are stowed in the rear locker.

Owen.

[Jon Bradshaw]

I have been busy with other things and not accomplished much on the CMP.

I have removed and replaced the wheel cylinders and master cylinder and re-shod the front shoes. The back were almost as good as new so I left those shoes alone. I cleaned and blasted the front drums and backing plates. Painted them and reinstalled everything.
Bled the brakes yesterday and now have a basically new set of brakes all around. The truck is still just a rolling chassis but I have begun making arrangements to get the chassis and the rest of the body pieces into a sandblaster in March from there straight to a paint and then reassembled. Sorry no pictures because there isn't much to see.
I hope to have this ready for a July first show here and then on to another in August.

[Gordons]

Hi Jon, nice to see the old F15A getting a rebuild, I owned the F15 at one time, brought it out from Saskatchewan a few years ago, then sold it, Bill Greggs noted, it looked like it had served with United Nations at one time as it had been painted white. nice item where the original 10:50 x 16 tires

[Jon Bradshaw]

Are you saying this used to be your truck? or did you mean you also owned one like it?
Yes it has white paint underneath and was painted with grey after that at some time. The grey did not stick very well and is flaking off in a lot of spots.

[Gordons]

Yes I sold it running, it went to Onoway, alberta
nice to see someone rebuilding it

Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw

Are you saying this used to be your truck? or did you mean you also owned one like it?
Yes it has white paint underneath and was painted with grey after that at some time. The grey did not stick very well and is flaking off in a lot of spots.

Attachment 105277 Attachment 105276

[Jon Bradshaw]

It is nice to see that you recognize it but do you know more about the history of it? Was it a truck from up there or did you buy it from someone who brought it north? Do you know what unit or base it came from? If a northern truck then it would be one of only a few possibilities....
I bought it as a running vehicle in pieces, made getting to the heart of the restoration very easy. Assembly might be more difficult since I didn't see it come apart. All good fun for the future.
I hope to have it green and ready to go by the time summer is here.
I will likely do it up in PPCLI markings from Europe since that is my regiment and Europe would have been the location of it's use. Although Italian campaign markings might be fun too.....

[Gordons]

I purchased the F15A from Ken Heiburg of Regina in 2005, and a 41 C15A from Mike Heiburg in Gronlid Saskatchewan in 2004, I believe they had been used on the farm, did you get the tool boxes.

[Jon Bradshaw]

I got the black tool box and the truck box but left them in Onoway until I have room for them. Since I am doing a water truck they are extra and not important to me right now.
Funny the truck has made quite a few trips since the end of it's "useful life".
It went from Regina to Yellowknife to Onoway AB and I am taking it to Picton ON this summer once it is done. I wonder where it will go after me?

[Gordons]

I'm sure the F15A will look great as a water truck, those tool boxes are very hard to find so hang on to them, the black one is off the early composite (CKD) Complete Knock Down, 2H1 body, built to save space for shipping

[Jon Bradshaw]

I have taken the transfer case off and will need to take it apart to replace all the oil seals on the drive shafts. They all seem to leak at least a bit and since it is off I might as well do them all. The darn thing is quite heavy to carry....
Does anyone have the seal numbers for these? I am sure one of you out there has cross referenced the old number with new ones?
I have also taken the filter to a local metal fab shop to see what they can do to make me a set of tops for the filter cans. The fuel tanks I got with the truck are not bad but for this one where I plan to try driving it on the road I am having them make stainless fuel tanks for it. These will last as long as I own it and never give me issues with corrosion. A bit pricier than doing the sealant swish in the tank but a lifetime fix, so worth it to me. I have more CMP's with rustier tanks so these fuel tanks won't go to waste.
For the filter pumps does anyone have the experience of stripping them? Mine seem to be very well stuck and will not pump at all. I see they are all brass except the pin holding the handle which is solidly stuck in.
I will take them apart and try to replace the leather seals but since they likely won't ever pump water it is a moot point.
The hose for the pump and tank is a very heavy rubber 3/4 inch ID and 1 1/4 inch OD I am looking into finding that now, so that I can have the 30ft on hand to do it up once I get to that point.
Still no luck finding good solid old brass taps for the back where the troops get the water out.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw

For the filter pumps does anyone have the experience of stripping them? Mine seem to be very well stuck and will not pump at all. I see they are all brass except the pin holding the handle which is solidly stuck in.
I will take them apart and try to replace the leather seals but since they likely won't ever pump water it is a moot point.

I don't have one to take apart but the attached photos may help you, if you haven't already seen them. Looks like you need to remove the lever cam in order to get the piston out.

Owen.

[Jon Bradshaw]

Thanks Owen I have one of those pics but not the cutaway view one of the lever cam action. As I said above the cam retaining pin is solidly stuck rusted in place. I may have to press it or drill it out. By the looks of the cutaway there is no way to access it from the ends to take it apart otherwise.
Still looking for the oil seal numbers if anyone has them?

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw

Still looking for the oil seal numbers if anyone has them?

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

(From the "Modern Part numbers for CMP's" thread)
Stopped off at a bearing shop today.

Myself and the guy behind the counter measured up the seals and shafts and came to the following modern parts. Parts are ordered and I should have them tomorrow morning.

Transfer Case
Modern oil seal part number is SKF 19360 QTY3
Speedi Sleeve is SKF 99193 QTY 3

Bearings as listed in the parts manual.
Timken 332. QTY 6
Timken 339. QTY 5
Timken 342-S. QTY 1
Timken 14274 QTY 2
Timken 14137 QTY 2

That number is good for the generic seal size. For example, if you want to go for traditional leather seals instead of modern neoprene, then the Chicago Rawhide part number is CR 19360.

The other seal used on the transfer case is for the shift shaft CR 5510 (or SKF).

[Jon Bradshaw]

I saw that thread after I posted last night. I took the seals off today and they are all the same size. I am looking at the paper gaskets in behind them and will likely trace and cut them out of gasket paper. Strange only one of them had a steel gasket plate the other two just had paper. Will make tracing very easy....
The second strange thing about them was that the three plates were all held on by different sized bolts. 13mm, 14mm and 15mm I thought this was strange but maybe it is like that on all of them?

[rob love]

Metric bolts on a CMP transfer case? That does not sound right.


The steel shim is likely for adjustment of the shaft/bearing end play. That will change if you use a different thickness of paper gasket, or use RTV. You may find the steel shims only on one end of a shaft.