Welfare Vehicles

[David Dunlop]

I think it’s a Ford, Hanno. The mirror arm shadow heads to a point between the driver’s door hinges rather than to the top hinge assembly.

David

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I think it’s a Ford, Hanno. The mirror arm shadow heads to a point between the driver’s door hinges rather than to the top hinge assembly

Agree, that's a Ford spring bumper too.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I think it’s a Ford, Hanno. The mirror arm shadow heads to a point between the driver’s door hinges rather than to the top hinge assembly.

Most certainly a Ford - I merely quoted the caption in the archive. See link here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...611#post251611

H.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Most certainly a Ford - I merely quoted the caption in the archive. See link here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...611#post251611

I knew YOU would know Hanno lol.

[Matthew P]

Here is an article scan from the Australian "The War Cry" periodical of The Salvation Army about Ken Smith's Australian Comforts Fund/Salvation Army Jeep. Based on my research this is one of only approximately 36 such vehicles.

Matt

[Les Freathy]

A Commer based canteen with the food flying squad and a converted car based in London, not sure of the make of car but one from the upper class I would say

[Les Freathy]

I forgot how to include more than one image but here is the car based canteen

[Ed Storey]

The Salvation Army supported the Canadian military in Germany from the 1950s until the close-out in 1994. Here is an image from 1991.

[Matthew P]

Ed,

Thank you for that photo. I'm working on an article right now and had to amend my dates. In the SA archives in Toronto I found many photos from the 60's of support in Germany. Somewhere I got it in my head that the welfare work in Germany concluded in the 60's.

Also is that a 4x4 VW with a raised roof, ie "locally procured" or is that a Canadian built vehicle? I know the US Army over there had some Vanagons. They are pretty rare now. I don't think they were ever very common.

Matt

[Ed Storey]

It certainly looks like a VW Vanagon. My guess is that it was locally procured although I have no idea what arrangement was made between the Salvation Army and the Canadian Forces with respect to maintenance and fuel or just how much freedom of movement they had within military lines or the Brigade training areas.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Les Freathy

A Commer based canteen with the food flying squad and a converted car based in London, not sure of the make of car but one from the upper class I would say

That's a lovely picture, Les. Does anyone know more about the colours of these "Food flying squad" vehicles? I have seen a small die cast scale model that was I believe tan with lightgrey.....any thoughts if this could be correct or not?

Alex

[Matthew P]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

It certainly looks like a VW Vanagon. My guess is that it was locally procured although I have no idea what arrangement was made between the Salvation Army and the Canadian Forces with respect to maintenance and fuel or just how much freedom of movement they had within military lines or the Brigade training areas.

Looks to be a blackout lamp on the front bumper? I suppose the the vehicle was at least configured for deploying to forward areas if the need arose.

Matt

[Lang]

Found another one. Army personnel but civilian Queensland number plate.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

That's a lovely picture, Les. Does anyone know more about the colours of these "Food flying squad" vehicles? I have seen a small die cast scale model that was I believe tan with lightgrey.....any thoughts if this could be correct or not?

Alex,

The HMVF thread on Queen's messengers has a screen print of colour footage one of the "Food Flying Squad" Bedfords. They surely had odd colours for wartime service, albeit an effort was made to camouflage them. It may well be it worked well in built-up areas.

The second picture shows one of the Bedford OX canteen trucks in Vlissingen, proof of these convoy vehicles being in use in the Netherlands during WW2. In the HMVF tread you posted more photos showing hem in use in the Netherlands. Would be great to see one of these recreated!

HTH,
Hanno

[Alex van de Wetering]

Thanks Hanno, that colour image explains a lot. Odd colours though.....desert tan with navy grey???

In the HMVF tread you posted more photos showing hem in use in the Netherlands

Yes, I know of multiple pictures of the trucks in use in Rotterdam and Den Haag.

I agree, it would be awesome to see one of these trucks at MV events.

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Thanks Hanno, that colour image explains a lot. Odd colours though.....desert tan with navy grey???

IIRC, the colours were blue camouflage over a cream base colour. Some pictures show them without camouflage (including a Bassett-Lowke 1:8 scale model in the Science Museum).

In the HMVF topic Ted Angus mentions that post-war the new flying squad vehicles were just plain blue.

[Alex van de Wetering]

(including a Bassett-Lowke 1:8 scale model in the Science Museum).

That's an awesome model!


This is what Oxford die-cast models chose for their 1/76 model.

source: https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/prod...-squad-76bd001

Alex

[Ilian Filipov]

The choice of "civilian" wheels for this model is really strange, for they have in the range also OYC and OYD models with split rim wheels (in the German captured version even with dual rears!)
The only advantage of this canteen is that the awful cab isn't visible.

[Matthew P]

I play in HO scale but have a few OO scale wagons I picked up during my trip to England last year. I might have to get that Oxford and repaint it for one of the Salvation Army ones of which I have a few photographs of. Would that be an OX and the long chassis an OY or are both chassis classified as the same?

Matt

[David Herbert]

Matthew,
You are correct, OX is 1 1/2 ton (30cwt) capacity, short WB. OY is 3 ton capacity long WB.
There was also a 15cwt MW, which was even shorter and although the scuttle/firewall of the cab was the same and the engine and transmission was identical to the larger ones, the bonnet(hood) was longer and lower and the whole truck had a lower profile. All these model letters would have a third letter added depending on the intended use of the chassis, D for a GS truck, C for a chassis to be fitted as a tanker, W for wireless truck, and a few more.

David

[Matthew P]

Here's a picture that came up on eBay. While it interest me, it seems to interest someone even more. As it's not WW2 I'll probably bow out and let the other bidder win. But I saved a digital copy for our discussion here. There seems to be two Salvation Army Red Shield Services vans, the one behind the sedan looks to have a taller roof but otherwise is a lot more stock then the one to the right.

Photo in the eBay listing is uncaptioned and unattributed.

Matt

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Matthew P

Here's a picture that came up on eBay. While it interest me, it seems to interest someone even more. As it's not WW2 I'll probably bow out and let the other bidder win. But I saved a digital copy for our discussion here. There seems to be two Salvation Army Red Shield Services vans, the one behind the sedan looks to have a taller roof but otherwise is a lot more stock then the one to the right.

Photo in the eBay listing is uncaptioned and unattributed.

Matt

Matthew,
Obviously British Army, the van that is visible is built on a British made Ford 400E van. The 'sedan' is a Standard Vanguard and the army truck in the background to the right is an early 1950's Morris Commercial MRA1 1 ton 4x4

regards, Richard

[Mike K]

Interesting the 400E van. My neighbour down the road has around twenty 400E in various forms including a camper . They are well engineered vehicles with a solid chassis and IFS .Consul OHV engine.

[David Dunlop]

I think there is a third Salvation Army Truck, directly above the vent window of the Vanguard, by the trees in the distance.

David

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I think there is a third Salvation Army Truck, directly above the vent window of the Vanguard, by the trees in the distance.

David

and a couple of Austin Champs too (not Salvos!)

[Lang]

You would not want to give any cheek to this old bird. Even if you were the driver of the car behind she had just rammed while parking.

[Lang]

3 More photos - I think the carrier one might be up already.

[Matthew P]

Interesting mobile cinema trucks. That's a subset of Welfare vehicles even less documented then the canteens.

Matt

[Lang]

Well, the Australians took lots of shots of cinema units.

[Lang]

And more. The logs are the seating. The one with all the junk is the "theatre" next morning and this is what the audience brought to sit on.