Research regarding Cookers, Portable, No. 2

[Colin Alford]

The tray in the Sexton

Your tray was very likely manufactured to house the Canadian Cookers, Portable, No. 2.* Montreal Locomotive Works likely had one on hand as they obviously used a Canadian model when they were designing the stowage in the Ram tanks.* Does this mean you need to find one of the Canadian models?* If you are looking to portray a vehicle that is stowed as originally intended at the factory then yes, but if you are looking to portray the stowage as used in operations then no.* The crews likely either had to stow the British cooker in a different location, modify the existing tray or make up some sort of adaptor. If it were my vehicle I would be tempted to make up an adaptor plate (potentially out of plywood with a metal lip) which sat into the recess of the existing tray then had a larger tray mounted on top to accommodate the dimensions of the British Cooker.* If the strap proves to be too short I would simply insert a normal utility (blanket) strap to increase the functional length.

Other Canadian manufactured armoured vehicles

Having had a look through various stowage diagrams I note that for the Lynx and Fox, the Cookers were stowed in bins that also housed other items.* I don't know if the bins had any dividers or brackets in them to specifically locate the Cooker or if the other items packed within the bins helped prevent movement.

The stowage diagram for the Otter does illustrate the Cooker and I think that we are seeing a drawing of the Canadian Cookers, Portable, No. 2 as there is no British style stove illustrated and the pot appears to be tall. (Otter images below)

The stowage diagram for the Windsor Carrier indicates the stove is stowed beside the pot thereby indicating use of the British Cooker.* This does make sense given the later date of design compared to other Canadian produced armoured vehicles.

[Colin Alford]

How to identify a military Coleman Model 500 Speed Master Stove

The detailed images available at the various Camp Stove Collector forums/sites give a good idea of the correct features for the Military Contract stoves.* The early stoves had nickel plated founts (fuel reservoir) and these are the type that are evident in the war time photos.* At least one example had a C-Broad Arrow stamped into the lower edge.* By 1942 the stoves were painted (Someone might be able to name the correct colour).* It appears that the wind shield is unique to the Canadian Military Stoves.* And certainly all of them will be made in Canada (not USA) and have appropriate wartime dates.* A detail which seems to support my whole theory is that none of the noted dates are after 1943 and this makes sense due to the fact that this style of burner was not compatible with leaded fuel.

[Colin Alford]

Post-war Canadian use of the Coleman Model 500

The hand-written note at the bottom of this document may be discussing the Coleman 500.* The most noteworthy part is that this 1949 note is the only document I have encountered that mentioned a "Cdn Cookers Portable No 2"

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...2/5002?r=0&s=4

Here is my best attempt at deciphering the handwriting:

"Weight of US stove (5 lbs) is approximately the same as the Cdn Cookers Portable No 2.* Two of the latter items are reported to adequately heat a 5-man tent and prepare pack rations for 5 men, more-over they are being procured for present stockpiling.* Would therefore consider that we are interested in the US development should it prove to be an improvement over the Cdn. Cookers Port, No 2."* Dated 23 Mar 1949



If you are seriously interested in this topic, you may have come across reference to the Coleman 500 being referred to as a "Model C1B1" here is the basis for that information:

B-GG-302-002/FP-001 (formerly CFP 302(2), Part 1), Specific Operations, Volume 2, Arctic and Sub-Arctic Operations, Part 1, Basic Cold Weather Training. Dated 1974-03-15 (including Change 1 - 1982-08-04)

Paras 234-241 (pages 2-67 to 2-73) an image from this manual is attached.

This seems to indicate that these stoves were still in use into the 1980s. Does anyone remember them?

[Colin Alford]

A complete summary

As stated in the beginning, I certainly do not have all of the answers regarding Cookers, Portable No.2, but hopefully the information I have presented can prompt further discussion on this topic.

I recognize that there is some potential that my claims regarding the true identity and designation of the Canadian stoves could cause some controversy (and maybe I am wrong) and I welcome discussion or further evidence on the matter.

The research that I have conducted has been mainly based on files that I can access via the internet.* On the Library and Archives Canada site there are 2 more Canadian Military Headquarters - London files that are visible:

Petrol cookers.<http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_archives/index.php?fuseaction=genitem.displayItem&rec_nbr=1 086764&lang=eng&rec_nbr_list=1086764,1086767,42870 42> 1943/01-1944/02. File.
RG24-C-2. Volume/box number: 12584. File number: 11/COOKERS PETROL/1.
Textual material. [Access: Open]. Government.
Finding aid number: 24-15

Petrol cookers.<http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_archives/index.php?fuseaction=genitem.displayItem&rec_nbr=1 086767&lang=eng&rec_nbr_list=1086764,1086767,42870 42> 1945/02-1945/05. File.
RG24-C-2. Volume/box number: 12584. File number: 11/COOKERS PETROL/1/2.
Textual material. [Access: Open]. Government.
Finding aid number: 24-15

These 2 files likely contain additional information which could assist in further developing a complete picture of Canadian usage, unfortunately they are not currently available on-line.

[Jordan Baker]

Excellent research and compilation of data Colin.

I found this photo online a while back, (I believe on MLU)

[Jesse Browning]

Very nice work Colin. I think that answered the question about the stove for the Sexton, though measuring the case for a 500 would tell for sure. Concerning use of the British No2 in the Sexton: the stove and cooking pot will not fit in the bracket as they are too tall together. I will add some pictures from my research.

[Jesse Browning]

A covilian add for the No2.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

This seems to indicate that these stoves were still in use into the 1980s. Does anyone remember them?

I never had cause to notice them before, but I'll be looking now, especially at my favorite military scrapyard, where the pots may no doubt lurk.

There is an old Cdn NSN for them, 7310-21-108-5755, which includes some Cdn army numbers for the model as well. They are now obsolete, although it's hard to say when. The last update was 2013 on the number. A lot of the numbers refer to the Army cadets, so they may have been using them later than the actual Cdn Forces.

I see they are readily available on ebay, although if one gets picky about the date and trying to find a C/l\ example, it could take a little longer.

[Colin Alford]

Jordan,

Excellent research and compilation of data Colin.

I found this photo online a while back, (I believe on MLU)

Thanks, the source of that photo is: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...&postcount=107

Jesse,

Concerning use of the British No2 in the Sexton: the stove and cooking pot will not fit in the bracket as they are too tall together.

I hadn't considered that the height would be an issue in the Sexton. I thought it might be an issue in the Fox and Lynx which stowed the cookers in fender mounted bins. I will have to abandon the thoughts of an adaptor plate to fit in the Sexton tray.

The stove from the above kijiji ad is in the capable hands of a fellow MLUer who greatly assisted in obtaining it. Once we can work out a date to meet and it transfers to my possession I can then try fitting it in the local Sexton.

Colin

[Jesse Browning]

The adapter, or plywood spacer would have to be as tall as the edges of the bracket as the case of both No2 stoves is too big. I thought to put the pot under the stove as it fits in the bracket, but the whole rig is too tall, hitting on the sloped armor.

[Ed Storey]

Colin, that is a thorough piece of research on the Cookers, Portable, No. 2 and thank you for posting it. Here is a report that was written on the Cooker, Portable Mk II, No.2 following a cold weather test that was conducted in Canada in 1944.

Cold Weather Trials - Volume I 176.jpg Cold Weather Trials - Volume I 177.jpg Cold Weather Trials - Volume I 178.jpg Cold Weather Trials - Volume I 179.jpg Cold Weather Trials - Volume I 180.jpg

[Colin Alford]

Jesse,

Understood. I have been in Sexton but I did not pay any attention to the area in question and you are definitely better qualified than I to speak about the challenges of trying to accommodate a British Cooker in the available space.

During the research I did look through some files relating to the Sexton that included documents about the stowage but they all seemed to relate to the changes that happened between Sexton I and Sexton II. I did not find any mention of changes desired or implemented regarding stowage of the Cooker.

I presume that the field expedient would have been to find a different place to stow the British Cooker.

Colin

[Jesse Browning]

The stove described, and pictured appears to be a No2, or a No2 Mk1. It is refered to as a No2 mk2. I do agree with the findings.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

This seems to indicate that these stoves were still in use into the 1980s.

My reading of the above is that the above comments specifically relate to the Coleman 500 in CDN service, but you haven't mentioned the post-war service of the No2 mk2.

After looking on Ebay UK, I see a New Old Stock cooker in the bag with a manufacturing date of 1993 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Army-stov...kAAOSw-uNaS9YW). When did they phase them out of service, or is the No2 Mk2 still in use?

If the stoves were modified originally to become the Mk2 due to the introduction of leaded fuel, were any subsequent modifications required to run them on modern unleaded fuel with it's additives of ethanol, toluene and benzene (and who know's what else?) I see the ebay version I've linked is now called a No2 Mk2 Modified. Do these stoves run OK on modern fuel?

(PS If the seller would post internationally, I would not have linked this item! )

[Jordan Baker]

Here is my Coleman stove with the pot/pan as described by Colin. This one also came with an original 1942 instruction booklet.

[Jordan Baker]

One of the Coleman 500 aluminium cooking pots showed up in this film.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060023954

[charlie fitton]

For 105.80 (pounds) I'd take one...

[derk derin]

After reading this post Colin I was on the lookout for one of the Coleman 500 stoves and a couple of weeks ago I finally came across 3 that were scrapped as they were stripped of their valves & generators but what peaked my interest is the 42 date on 2 of the tanks. It was a start so I cleaned up the best tank and made one fairly complete one out of the 3 stoves. I’ve been trying to find a valve and generator to complete it but so far there has been no luck finding any. I hope to find more next spring that may have the parts I need to complete it but for now it will fill the spot in my carrier.
Thank you for doing all the research on these stoves.
Regards,Derk

[derk derin]

The tank had a couple of hammer marks, I popped them out with air then bondoed up the ripples. Turned out ok. Don’t want it to look too pretty otherwise I would worry about it getting scratched!
Derk