Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mike K]

When you think about it, it took the automotive industry many decades before the owned up the fact that paint in its many forms , was not a good long term rust preventative.

Anybody here own a Holden in the 50's 60's 70's ? They were absolute rust buckets and what did GMH do about it ..nothing of course . GMH wanted you to buy a new Holden each 4 years or so.

Paint back then was porous and eventually good old H2O got through to the steel .

[Richard Seymour]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

When you think about it, it took the automotive industry many decades before the owned up the fact that paint in its many forms , was not a good long term rust preventative.

Anybody here own a Holden in the 50's 60's 70's ? They were absolute rust buckets and what did GMH do about it ..nothing of course . GMH wanted you to buy a new Holden each 4 years or so.

Paint back then was porous and eventually good old H2O got through to the steel .

Not just Holden either

[Mike Cecil]

http://milepegsnt.com/site/vehicle-camouflage-markings/

This site may be of some interest. I think a link to the site's home page may have been posted before somewhere on the forum? Nevertheless, still relates to this thread.

Mike

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

http://milepegsnt.com/site/vehicle-camouflage-markings/

This site may be of some interest. I think a link to the site's home page may have been posted before somewhere on the forum? Nevertheless, still relates to this thread.

Mike

Yes that' s a good read, I emailed him some time back .

The "Plymouth pickup" description is a misnomer , it is a Fargo 15 cwt GS Van . In the email I pointed out his American terminology and that we have utes here not pickups

The Dodge convertible is another misnomer, it is a 12 cwt GS van Dodge , don't know how he got a convertible . These Dodge's were actually Canadian sourced Plymouths tarted up with a fake Dodge grill .

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

http://milepegsnt.com/site/vehicle-camouflage-markings/

This site may be of some interest. I think a link to the site's home page may have been posted before somewhere on the forum?

Actually Mike the same link was posted by Mike Kelly in this thread a couple of years ago (#278 19-6-16) and I chased up the NT Force diary references, which are available online:

October 1942 (pp. 99-102):

https://oldsite.awm.gov.au/images/co...024596--9-.pdf

December 1943 (pp. 14-21):

https://oldsite.awm.gov.au/images/co...24421--13-.pdf

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Nevertheless, still relates to this thread.

Indeed it does Mike, and well worth revisiting. Of most interest is NT Force GS Instn No.22 of 30 October 1942, which specifies Dark Green M as preferred Dark Tone, with various formulations of Grey as preferred Light Tone, and specifically rules out Light Stone:

“Vehs already painted in two tones in accordance with previous instns will not be repainted with the exception of those vehs on which cream patches still exist. These patches will be painted out with a suitable light tone from those mentioned above.”

Similar colours had already been specified for NG Force ( Dark Green M / Light Slate Grey B ) and NSW LOC Area ( Dark Green M with 1/8 Night Black U / Vehicle Light Grey ), with specific instructions to overpaint existing patches of Light Stone and Vehicle Buff (B.S.C. 59 Middle Buff or DHS equivalent). By early September agreement had been reached between NSW LOC Area, 2 Aust Corps, and 1 Aust Army to adopt a unified scheme ( Dark Green 3 / Vehicle Grey ) which even met with Dakin’s approval: “Your scheme for Vehicle Disruptive Painting is very satisfactory indeed”.

Thus by mid-late 1942 we find Army formations along the entire east coast of Australia plus NT and New Guinea in furious agreement about the unsuitability of Light Stone, with an overwhelming preference for Dark Green / Light Grey schemes. All that remained was to introduce such a scheme into vehicle production, and thereby end all reliance on Dakin’s dodgy house paint applied in extremis by Army itself in the field. That being the case, the earliest evidence we’d expect to see of Dark Green / Light Grey scheme would be on new vehicles. Of course, we must first remove our Light Stone goggles!


127882 TRUCKS, 3-TON, D.F. RADIO (AUSTRALIAN)..JPG

127889 TRUCKS, 3-TON WATER, 400-GALL. (AUSTRALIAN) PILOT MODEL.JPG

P00165.010 P00165.010 3RD AUST ORDNANCE VEHICLE PARK, NORTH RYDE, NSW. TAKEN BY JOHN GARDENER .JPG

FGT9 ARN 132141.jpg

AWM FGT9 grayscale.jpg

[Mike Cecil]

The AWM No.9 FGT disruptive colour is Light Earth, not light stone.

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Mike I’ve not seen the vehicle myself, but if you’re saying it’s intended to be Khaki Green / Light Earth scheme, then I’d suggest it would fail badly on colour matching, even allowing for the vagaries of lighting / photography etc. There’s just way too much tonal contrast evident for that scheme. However the scheme itself would make more sense chronologically, so I’ve removed the FAIL stamp….provisionally! I remain of the belief that we’re seeing the later scheme in the classic FGT9 images and I’d be interested in your thoughts about that possibility.

[Mike Cecil]

There is nothing like seeing something in person. Arrange a visit, Tony, and take your colour swatches with you. I can send you the email address of which section to make that request to if you like, or you can wait for a storage area open day - I think they run open days once or twice a year.

Mike