Impressed? Not very!

[Tony Smith]

During WW2 (or at any other time of emergency), what was the procedure when an item or property was "Impressed" for military use? Was the owner give "tough luck" and thanks doing for your bit? Were they given a "Chit" and told they could reclaim their property at the end of hostilities, or were they paid a consideration, and was that at a prescribed value or market value?

The items most commonly associated with this forum would be cars, motorcycles and trucks, usually late model vehicles from the late 30's or early 40's. But there were also more significant assets required such as factories and workshops for small job War Production, or large stately homes and estates used for convalescent hostels. These would be of substantial value, and not something that an owner would b happy to say "Just glad I could help out". In the case of large homes used for convalescent hostels, I cannot think of many that reverted to private ownership post-war, indicating that the title had changed hands, but perhaps the conversion of the building rendered it unsuitable as a family home.

It would seem common sense that the owners of these items were compensated for the loss of their asset, but the sheer volume of vehicles and property acquired would have been an immense strain on Treasury, which leads me to think that they were either valued at below market value, or paid for by delayed means (War Bonds?). Seizure without compensation on a wide scale would have caused an outcry.

This occurred in the majority of nations in the Commonwealth, but the degree varied (ie in Britain the needs would have been more pressing than Canada, and therefore the volume and the cost). I do know that Australia's Federal Constitution has provisions that if the Government needs to claim private property (ie a portion of land for a road), or makes a decision that affects an asset (such as acquiring the usage of a workshop or factory), then the owner is entitled to fair compensation. I would expect that other countries would have similar. But perhaps because of the urgencies of war, and the potential squabbling and haggling over value, as well as the scale of the cost, wartime legislation was passed that over-rode those protections?

I have heard many examples of assets being Impressed, but have never been clear on how the ownership was actually transferred. Any thoughts?

[maple_leaf_eh]

The most ably informed member on this topic is our our MLU colleague Bob Bergeron.

I did a search of the Canadian National Defence Act for 'property' and got a number of responses, typically dealing with Her Majesty's belongings entrusted to the Canadian Forces, and things belonging to other people. Generally the language looked like, don't steal, don't waste and everything belongs to someone who we'll charge if it goes astray. A search for the word 'impress' had no returns.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/Searc...rty&h1ts0n1y=0

But, going back to my earlier training, I am reminded of a scenario used in an aid to the civil power lecture. If 'martial law' was declared, which is worse than an emergency or invoking the War Measures Act, troops would be empowered to do whatever is necessary to achieve their mission. I do recall however, that 'martial law' no longer exists as a state in Canadian law. Under that misinterpretation, the story goes that a section of troops on an exercise were briefed that martial law had been declared and they needed to go somewhere to do something. The directing staff having previously antagonized the speaker spoke those words, so the speaker took the man at his word and promptly requisitioned his car, and drove off base with six grinning grubby grunts piled aboard, FN C1 rifles poking out the windows.

In 1988 the War Measures Act was replaced by the Emergencies Act. A search for the word 'impress' gave a nil response. There are five hits on the word 'property'. I believe your answer in a Canadian context is there. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/Searc...nt3ntTyp3=Acts

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Interesting topic which certainly needs more looking in to

IIRC (you know, having heard the bell ringing) in Britain and The Netherlands there were schemes that for when companies were buying lorries, they would get a subsidy when a certain type in a certain weight class was procured. Records of these were kept, and in the case of war the government then would have the right to requisition the vehicle. The civilian owners also had to keep it properly maintained etc. Sound like a "dual use" case.

Anyway, we should research this more thoroughly - thanks for bringing this up.

Hanno

[Lang]

I think we have had this topic before?

In the Australian case, anything impressed had to be paid for at the going market rate eg a team of car sales people with industry knowledge were employed to gather up the vehicles (very targeted makes and models). Full set price was paid and owners got first option to buy them back when not wanted also at a value placed on them by the experts. The buy-back price took into account depreciation and wear and tear.

There was the option of protesting confiscation if you could demonstrate the vehicle was doing essential war work eg farmers or factory trucks.

Houses and buildings etc were occupied on a case by case basis with compensation agreed by negotiation - obviously you could not refuse but had the option to strike a fair deal. Any damage had to be repaired or paid for on return to the owner.

Vacant land for camps and airfields was obtained either by compulsory purchase or "until end of hostilities" lease. Original owners nearly always got their land back even if it did have two miles of bitumen on it to prevent planting wheat!

There is a good oversight of the Australian arrangements I will try to find. I believe each country had similar but not identical arrangements.

Lang

[David Dunlop]

I don't think much of that type of activity took place in Canada during the World War Two, with the notable exception of Japanese Canadians on the West Coast who lost everything.

Manufacturing facilities were not seized. They were all surveyed for capability and capacity very early in the war. They were then advised what they would be making for the war effort and who their material suppliers would be and away they would go with their new production.

Oddly, the only item I have ever read about the Canadian Military needed and requisitioned from civilian sources were typewriters.

David

[horsa]

Seems handguns were also requested from civilian Canadians and Commonwealth living in the USA prior to the lend-lease act being implemented. Nobody went door to door taking them though.

[Lang]

Nobody in Australia had anything "taken" nor were manufacturing facilities "seized".

The required vehicles, and there was only relatively small number until war production got underway, were all paid for at the current Blue Book rate.

Manufacturers all bid for production on a commercial basis and many of their normal civilian products ceased, to cater for the huge war volume. Government inspectors identified and coordinated capabilities and bidding was often restricted to selected organisations - or even just one.

They also had to justify the consumption of raw materials for non military or civilian basic items and if it was deemed not in the interests of war production they would be denied or reduced access to purchase.

Despite all the PR about everyone pulling for the war effort nobody lost money and most manufacturers look back on the war period as a licence to print money. Wars are very expensive undertakings!

Lang

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I don't think much of that type of activity took place in Canada during the World War Two, with the notable exception of Japanese Canadians on the West Coast who lost everything.

I believe camp Ipperwash was taken from the Natives due to the neccessity of another training camp. After the war, it was not returned (nor paid for) which led to the native protests, including the shooting of Dudley George. It was eventually paid for in 2016 and control of the land returned.

In 1942 during World War II, the Government of Canada wanted reserve land from the Stoney Point Band to use as a base for military training and offered to buy it for $15 per acre. They also promised to return the land after the war ended. The Natives rejected the offer.
Under the War Measures Act, the federal government expropriated the lands from the Stoney Point Reserve and established Military Camp Ipperwash. The First Nations claim that the grounds contain a burial site. As of 2010, archaeological surveys have established that such a site does indeed exist.

More on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipperwash_Crisis

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Lang

Nobody in Australia had anything "taken" nor were manufacturing facilities "seized".


Lang

I don't think there was any easy way the average joe on the street could put up a case if the Govt. wanted to impress your truck. It was probably an act of parliament that was enforced , maybe one of the emergency wartime acts .

Years ago I was talking to a chap at the Chevy parts place in Cheltenham. Col , the owner, ran the business from is home. Anyway an elderly bloke , the neighbour, was saying to me " I had my new 39 Chev truck taken from me and I wasn't happy about it " . I asked him if he got the truck back and he said " no never saw it again". He said "two guys came to my door and said we are taking your truck and that is it" .

I wish now, that I had queried him more about the money side of things e.g. did he get a fair price for the truck.

I bought this old wartime Victorian rego certificate at a swap meet . The ownership changes are interesting ! The Dept. of Defence owned this truck for a while, and Vic Drew who we all know of. Would this truck have had a ARN number while in the DD ownership ?

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I don't think there was any easy way the average joe on the street could put up a case if the Govt. wanted to impress your truck. It was probably an act of parliament that was enforced , maybe one of the emergency wartime acts .

Years ago I was talking to a chap at the Chevy parts place in Cheltenham. Col , the owner, ran the business from is home. Anyway an elderly bloke , the neighbour, was saying to me " I had my new 39 Chev truck taken from me and I wasn't happy about it " . I asked him if he got the truck back and he said " no never saw it again". He said "two guys came to my door and said we are taking your truck and that is it" .

I wish now, that I had queried him more about the money side of things e.g. did he get a fair price for the truck.

I bought this old wartime Victorian rego certificate at a swap meet . The ownership changes are interesting ! The Dept. of Defence owned this truck for a while, and Vic Drew who we all know of. Would this truck have had a ARN number while in the DD ownership ?

I went to school in Maryborough in the 70's with a couple of Rinaldi boys Mike. I dare say there was a connection with the Rinaldi who owned that truck at one point.

[motto (RIP)]

My father was with a signals outfit at Albert Park Barracks (Melbourne) in the early part of the war. He was a Despatch Rider or Don R as they were known. Part of his job was preparing impressed motor cycles for military service, or at least they were riding and maintaining impressed bikes.
IIRC he said that the civilian owners were given the choice of having the motorcycle returned when war ended or taking a ten pound payment and relinquishing all claim. He also said that those who elected to have their cycle returned usually received a new replacement. I guess the army had plenty of them at wars end.
Dad bought a WLA Harley Davidson after the war from Miledge Brothers in Melbourne. The price was 182 pounds ten shillings. He had the choice of taking one in the crate or buying one they had assembled as a demonstrator. They had a large stack of crated ones out the back.
I bought a WLA direct from government disposals (Tottenham) in 1970 for $65 I rode it for years and still have it. I got sick of hearing how you could buy them in crates for ten dollars but had to buy ten. Everyone seemed to know about it but no one could tell me exactly where.

David

[lynx42]

I started off trying to find the International tipper detailed in post No.9 by Mike Kelly through the AWM, ARN books but sofar haven't had much luck. BUT I did find a few pages of impressed vehicles, which were impressed in both the Northern Territory and New Guinea. The quality of my phone photos is not too good but here they are. There are some interesting vehicles and it seems they would grab anything. In the New Guinea list there is mentioned a 1925 Chev Tourer, a 1926 Chev Ute, a 1927 Buick Roadster, a 1928 Ford Sedan, a 1927 Dodge Van, a 1928 Chev Van and many more. In the Northern territory list the vehicles are a bit more modern, the oldest (I think) is a 1935 Ford Sedan.

Regards Rick.

1

[Mike K]

Appears that the Inter tipper was de-registered when the defence dept. took control of it . It also changed hands three times on the same day !

Makes you wonder what the Defence Dept. encompassed ? Army, Navy, Air force and what else ?

Years ago I visited a MV collector near Deloraine in Northern Tasmania, among his many bits n pieces was a nice FWD HAR truck, on the cab side was a AWC ( Allied Works Council ) number plate in perfect condition . He also had a Cletrac airfield tractor with the tubular cab frame on it , EH Mack, the ex Clemmons restored Thornycroft 6X4 workshop and a UK bren carrier in terrible shape.

It looks like the AWC had their own reg. scheme and this is where maybe some vehicles disappeared into oblivion

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Terry but I am no subject matter expert, just a student of these subjects .

My only recollection of a forfeiture of property without compensation in Canada during the war was Order in council no 1486 by Prime Minister King and his Cabinet.

The Order in council ( or Executive Order..) thereby ordered the forced deportation and forfeiture of property of 22,000 Canadians citizens of Japanese descent from the West Coast ( British Colombia ) on 22 Feb 1942. All without compensation . A tragedy and travesty of justice in today's mind set .

All other war confiscations or destructions in Canada , borne out of military necessity , were deemed expropriations and ( duly , not always same as today I guess ) compensated . They were and still are considered claims against the Crown.

That approach dates back to responsible government in the Commonwealth and the realisation that the maxim '' the King can do no wrong '' has it's limits in democracy.

As a contemporary example, that tradition carries over in international conflicts . When a Leopard tank had to... ( Terry's friends like to go cross country in 40 ton dune buggies .. ) go through a poppy field in Afghanistan out of military necessity to reach the objective , a claims analyst ( suited up in body armour ) dutifully followed the tracks to assess the damages and compensate the farmer either in cash or in goats.

Keeps the countrymen happy and helps to conquer the hearts and minds of the people you are trying to help overseas.

Be nice to hear about the treatment of Australia's enemy nationals during the same period as a scholarly comparison .

The times were different then .

My two cents.

[Lang]

Robert,

Two points about Australia that make our experience different to Canada.

Firstly we had very few resident Japanese (mainly in the pearl diving industry in northern Queensland and Western Australia) so had little of the massive disruption caused in Canada and USA.

There were internment camps for enemy nationals but nowhere near the North American scale.

The most important difference is our Constitution has specifically written into it that the Government may take property if in the national interest (in war time or to build major roads etc) but the owners must receive "fair and reasonable" compensation.

This has always been interpreted to mean full retail value and further payment for costs suffered by the owner. Of course in this day and age Government resumptions not only pay for costs such as moving household goods etc but for various things like pain and suffering and psychiatric treatment for their traumatized dog.

As mentioned above, Australians were paid very fairly for any vehicles or property taken during WW2.

Even in wartime parliament can not alter or suspend the constitution without a full national referendum which historically has almost never approved proposed changes.

It would be interesting to know if a blind eye was turned to property belonging to enemy nationals - I suspect it was and they got little or nothing - but they all returned to their farms etc after the war so were not robbed of their possessions permanently.

The story goes on 75 years later.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-...20-gxexwf.html

This is a dramatised report but gives some more of the picture.
http://theconversation.com/why-austr...ld-war-ii-4582

Lang

[rob love]

Here in Canada, we do not have property rights enshrined in our constitution: the government may take with no compensation. Ask any gun owner whose guns were declared prohibited overnight, and had to forfeit them.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Lang . Very interesting indeed . We had to wait until the 80's in Canada to have a Bill of Rights and a proper Constitution repatriated from Britain and as Rob said still no property rights . I had not realised how evolved your country was on these aspects. Roos rule ! Wish i could offer you a cold pint for that . Cheers mate .

[Lang]

We had a compulsory national hand-in of guns about 20 years ago in the wake of a mass killing by one crazed individual in Tasmania.

All automatic and semi-automatic weapons became illegal (including BB guns, shotguns and 22's). As a result hundreds of thousands of weapons were handed in. Owners could watch their rifles being destroyed in a press at the collection centres to avoid any talk of guns being resold etc.

As discussed, the government had to pay for the weapons at a cost of several hundred million dollars. A team of qualified gunsmiths and registered dealers drew up a value for EVERY weapon model and type - thousands of them. No matter what disgruntled owners say the prices were top dollar retail and all weapons were treated as Grade A condition.

Among others, I had to hand in an automatic shotgun given to me by my father on my 21st birthday. I got about twice the price I would have expected in a normal sale.

Of course, the whole thing was a farce set-up by politicians to cater for the hand-wringers and left wingers, who danced in the streets over all these weapons being removed from public hands.

The utter stupidity of the whole scheme was apparent to anybody with the slightest knowledge. I had to hand in my shotgun, 22 autos, MI Carbine and Garand because they were now illegal.

This only left me with fully legal bolt action .303 Jungle Carbine. SMLE, 310 Martini Cadet rifle and my Parker-Hale 243 plus a couple of bolt 22's and an under and over shotgun!

We are now down to about 2 weapons for every man, woman and child in Australia in private hands - they certainly must be stored in approved locked containers which the police check every few years.

Hand guns have always been illegal in Australia and outside military and security work may not be owned by anyone but regular attending pistol club members and of course criminals.

There is currently an amnesty (no payment) for anyone having illegal weapons to hand them in with no punishment upon threat of jail terms for ownership after the amnesty period expires. The collection centres and police stations have been underwhelmed by the public response.

Lang

[rob love]

Ours do not automatically get destroyed. They languish in lockups, sometimes for years, and there are some cases where they are redirected from destruction, over to museums or sometimes even into public service.

Legalized theft is a term often used.

There were instances where the government did direct that there would be compensation paid for certain firearms, when their "re-classification" was the rsult of the RCMP not fully doing their job in the first place. The funds came out of the RCMPs budget, but only came out to a few hundred thousand, which is a hiccup when you talk about government budgets. But that was under a firearms accommodating government.....they are back in the wings for now.

It was my understanding that the Australian government buy back even included purchasing back empty brass. I have many pails of "retirement funds" waiting out in the shed for such a scheme here.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lang

The most important difference is our Constitution has specifically written into it that the Government may take property if in the national interest (in war time or to build major roads etc) but the owners must receive "fair and reasonable" compensation.

As mentioned above, Australians were paid very fairly for any vehicles or property taken during WW2.

It would be interesting to know if a blind eye was turned to property belonging to enemy nationals - I suspect it was and they got little or nothing - but they all returned to their farms etc after the war so were not robbed of their possessions permanently.

Lang

Very different story for those Japanese interned in Aust. See https://digital.library.adelaide.edu.../2/02whole.pdf

Australian born and/or naturalised people of Japanese descent were arrested and interned and lost their property and assets, businesses and jobs and often their families were split up never to be reunited, and then deported at war's end. Many Korean and Formosan (aka Taiwanese) prisoners, who were regarded as "Japanese" nationality when interned, were also deported at war's end although notionally they had been granted newly independant nationalities that were our allies.

This wasn't due however to a blanket policy regarding all POWs and Internees, it was related to another policy in force at the time, the White Australia Policy. This has popped up in another thread, http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27908 . See the story BELOW the highlighted article in this link: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...eTo=1946-12-31

The White Australia Policy effectively excluded "undesirable types" from entering the country by legitimately setting impossible hurdles to gain entry to the country. One such method was setting an entry questionnaire "in a European language". If you were a "desirable type", your questionnaire might be in English. If you looked a little bit swarthy, or brown, or yellow, or otherwise foreign, your questionnaire might be written in Greek, or Estonian, or Basque. All fair and legal. Of course, you were asked first if you were proficient in any other languages. "Why, yes, I am a professor of languages at Calcutta University, and fluent in English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Aramaic, Pashtun, Urdu and Hindi. I also know a little Mandarin and Japanese!" "Well, you're outta luck, Sport! Ya shoulda studied Gaelic Dialects of the 17th Century!" Entry denied.

Persons born in Australia to Japanese parents, or long term residents who had naturalised to British (Australian) citizenship, wwere stripped of their naturalisation, and on release from interment were declared Illegal Aliens under the WAP and deported to countries they had never known or knew the language. People who had in some cases lived in Australia for 40, 45 or 50 years before the war (remember, Japan was our ally in WW1), grown large families and sucessful businesses were sent overseas and never able to return, and their families never saw them again.

Perhaps most oddly to us today, the Japanese internees, either POWs, locals or civilians transferred here from the Dutch or French colonies of the South West Pacific generally thought they had been treated well and humanely by Australian Authorities.

It was a whole different mindset back then!

[Lang]

Tony

You are right that the Japanese were treated far more severely than European enemy nationals (White Australia mentality?) Fortunately, in the scheme of things there were very few of them.

Many of the European, long term Australian residents were released - particularly farmers - long before the war finished. This specially applied to the large Italian community even before Italy changed sides.

In most cases only the men were imprisoned (and often used as government labour force) leaving the women and kids to carry on. Those kids must have suffered hell at school from the Australian kids. Many women struggled but some did very well by hiring labour and Luigi had a better farm when he returned.

A sad business all around.

Lang

[Lang]

Re guns

Rob

The buy back did not include empty brass but lots of people brought in ammunition (for which there was no payment).

Robert

It would be interesting to hear what hurdles the re-enactors have to jump in various countries to take their automatic weapons to shows.

Personally I find the Australian gun laws far less onerous than many European countries. Sure we can not have automatic weapons (unless you are a registered collector with very strong security storage arrangements) but it does not stop you owning 100 rifles and guns of all other types.

I am strongly in favour of our historical ban on handguns. I can see no reason, apart from pistol club for anyone to own one. They are a completely useless weapon for any form of hunting and the self defence argument is a crock. They are the perfect weapon for criminals, violent domestic arguments and road ragers. If you took the hand gun shootings (we all concentrate on the rare high profile automatic long-arm massacres) out of the picture, North American incidents would drop by over half.

So, despite our much criticized gun control and the fact there are still millions of weapons - legally and illegally - in private hands we have one of the lowest gun death rates in the world.

I would love to drive a Ferrari at 250kph everywhere but accept that I can still get there in my pick-up at the speed limit and not kill someone along the way or be killed by someone else in a Ferrari.

Likewise I would love to go out and empty a magazine on full auto or plink away with a handgun. But I am happy to still be able to shoot pigs just as well without some nutter pulling a handgun on me because he has it in his glove compartment or pocket when I give him the finger as he cuts me off in traffic.

My opinion and others have theirs.

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

Blimey! This thread has taken a few twists and turns ... impressment during WW2 evolving into comments on internment, fast cars and modern/current gun control. Where to next? Views on the current Australian gay marriage debate??!

But I'll have a little say about Japanese Internment: the Australian Government had interned 4,170 Japanese and Thai 'enemy aliens' by July 1942, many having been transferred to Australia from places such as NEI and the Solomon Islands. They were interned at Loveday, South Australia, Hay NSW and Tatura Victoria. The Japanese Legation Staff were confined to their residence in Harcourt Street, Auburn, Victoria.

A 'trade' with the Japanese was arranged by the British Commonwealth in August 1942, exchanging 1,834 Japanese for an equal number of British Commonwealth internees. The Japanese included Minister Tatsuo Kawai and the legation staff in Australia. A total of 871 detainees were transferred from Australia, the remainder from the UK and India. The exchange was carried out at the neutral port of Lourenco Marques, (now Maputo in Mozambique). The cremated remains of the four Japanese submariners from the Sydney Harbour midget sub raid were also handed to the Japanese at the same time. The four urns with the remains had been placed under the care of Minister Kawai in Melbourne when he boarded the ship.

The transport City of Canterbury was used to ship the detainees from Australia, complete with a 77 man armed guard unit (the commander of which was eventually tried by court martial and found guilty for 'cooking the books' during the assignment, but that's another story!)

Although other exchanges were proposed with the Japanese, this was the only one the British Commonwealth was actually able to complete. The remaining 3,200-odd internees remained incarcerated for the duration. It is a very interesting story (but a long way from impressed trucks and motorcycles!!)

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

There was an interesting and extensive 'to do' list once a vehicle was impressed for Army use. For vehicles in Victoria (3rd Military District - 3MD), the vehicles were to be 'gathered' at the 3MD VRD - Vehicle Receiving Depot at Broadmeadows Camp. At that point, several things occurred in sequence, as per 3MD VRD Instruction No.12 dated 21 February 1942:

(1) check vehicle against forms lodged with vehicle: AAF S3; AAF G4; AAF TS4, pro-forma, VOL list.
(2) Check toolkit, and list tools and equipment required to make up the Vehicle Outfit List (VOL). Existing tools in the vehicle kit were to be shown in red on the list.
(3) Assign the ARN from the registration block of numbers assigned to 3MD VRD. Chalk this on the inside of the cab, and write on the forms accompanying the vehicle (see 1 above for forms)
(4) Provide AAB 20 Log Book and complete the AAB 20 part G5 (vehicle details in the log book)
(5) Prepare G14 for vehicle kit, fix label and key rings.
(6) Complete AAF G51 in black pencil (as allocation of vehicle to a unit is not yet known)
(7) Dispatch vehicle with completed AAF G4 to workshop section for repairs/refit. If work scope beyond section, allocate to Base Workshop.
(8) Upon completion of repairs, if vehicle requires tailgate and sides, send to Holden Motors in Ferrars Street, South Melb, for fitting (all tray type vehs were to have sides and rear gate fitted for Army use).
(9) Upon receipt of completed vehicle, Workshop section to repaint in Khaki Green No.3 dull finish, Army number to be painted on centre rear & each side of bonnet in white 3.5 inch block numerals.
(10) Place vehicle on Park ready for issue.

Simple, eh?

Mike

[Robert Bergeron]

This has indeed turned into a "speaker's corner " ..

[Lang]

Robert and Mike

You are right - although the drift is progressive and not completely out of left field.

I think things on the forum can get a bit anal at times with serial numbers, dates and whether the canvas had 3,789 stitches.

The vehicles and equipment are a part of a very big human picture and personally I like to read what that was as well. Inevitably it will contain lots of opinion which will be contradicted but we are all big people and the forum is full of really good blokes and a very civilised one compared to many others.

So long as we don't get into blatant politics or social media slanging matches (which the moderators will jump on anyhow) I get a much better picture of someone on the other side of the world by hearing of what he thinks on some related subject of common interest.

Lang

[rob love]

I have always enjoyed watching the MLU threads meander. It has never really bothered me, and like Lang, it is neat to see the general (and usually similar) feelings from the other parts of the world.

[Mike K]

There was also at least one, possibly more, internment camp(s) administered and staffed by the NEI ( dutch) forces in Australia. The internees were subjects of the NEI govt, escapees from NEI to Australia as the Japanese advanced. Some of the Dutch officers had Aust. girlfriends from nearby towns.

The camps were not strictly guarded and in one case illegal supply drops of booze were flown in by a DC3 , the whole thing was a comedy really. It all turned serious when one of the internees was murdered one night . One of the girls was interviewed on ABC radio and she describing what went on behind the scenes.

The Italian POW camp at the Stud road/Wellington road corner , Wantirna, Melbourne, the CO shot and killed an Italian POW, the CO claimed an escape was in progress, a court martial cleared him

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

There was an interesting and extensive 'to do' list once a vehicle was impressed for Army use. For vehicles in Victoria (3rd Military District - 3MD), the vehicles were to be 'gathered' at the 3MD VRD - Vehicle Receiving Depot at Broadmeadows Camp. At that point, several things occurred in sequence, as per 3MD VRD Instruction No.12 dated 21 February 1942:

(1) check vehicle against forms lodged with vehicle: AAF S3; AAF G4; AAF TS4, pro-forma, VOL list.
(2) Check toolkit, and list tools and equipment required to make up the Vehicle Outfit List (VOL). Existing tools in the vehicle kit were to be shown in red on the list.
(3) Assign the ARN from the registration block of numbers assigned to 3MD VRD. Chalk this on the inside of the cab, and write on the forms accompanying the vehicle (see 1 above for forms)
(4) Provide AAB 20 Log Book and complete the AAB 20 part G5 (vehicle details in the log book)
(5) Prepare G14 for vehicle kit, fix label and key rings.
(6) Complete AAF G51 in black pencil (as allocation of vehicle to a unit is not yet known)
(7) Dispatch vehicle with completed AAF G4 to workshop section for repairs/refit. If work scope beyond section, allocate to Base Workshop.
(8) Upon completion of repairs, if vehicle requires tailgate and sides, send to Holden Motors in Ferrars Street, South Melb, for fitting (all tray type vehs were to have sides and rear gate fitted for Army use).
(9) Upon receipt of completed vehicle, Workshop section to repaint in Khaki Green No.3 dull finish, Army number to be painted on centre rear & each side of bonnet in white 3.5 inch block numerals.
(10) Place vehicle on Park ready for issue.

Simple, eh?

Mike

I am pretty sure I know where one of these impressed vehicles survives . A chap at Diamond creek owns a very nice unrestored 1940 Chev 15 cwt light commercial 115" wb with a wooden body fitted , the body has a GMH badge on it . I had the chance to buy this vehicle 20 years ago when it was at Kyneton , the local GMH dealer there had it for sale $6K . The motor in the chev has a DD rebuild badge on it and the chances are it's the original motor. I lost contact with the owner , wonder where the car is now ?

[Peter Samsonov]

My grandfather's motorcycle was pressed into service in the Red Army. He got a receipt, which entitled him to an equivalent motorcycle (likely a captured one) after the war, but unfortunately he lost it before he could cash it in.