F60L resto NSW Australia

[David Nicholson]

Just a quick update on my engine!

I've measured the main crankshaft bearings(2.4993") and big end journal bearings(2.138"). According to "Ford Flathead v-8 Builders Handbook 1932-1953" this puts the engine around the 1946-48 I'd say as the Bell housing is still the old style.....

Any thoughts from the Flathead guru's?

[Jacques Reed]

Hi David,

Sure sounds like a '46-'48 engine based on the journal sizes but having said that in the course of 75 years the engine could have had a crank replaced. My '46 engine pictured had 8BA crank and rods in it along with the 8BA valves and guides.

The divers helmet distributor still seems an anomaly on a later block. Again, who knows what gets swapped about after 75 years. Ditto the alloy manifold.

That number you quoted "363:1 K" is that in raised lettering in either of the positions that "C69A" is shown on my engine block? Anecdotally, I have heard there were some odd block codes for things such as stationary engines but have never seen any documentation on such.

Here's hoping you get a confirmation of what year the engine is.


Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Hi David,

Just remembered- if there are no recognized casting marks on the engine, the water jacket shape will give you a good approximation of the year of the engine. I assume you have the heads off if you have measured the bore.

I refer you to Vanpelt sales website.

If there are large triangular shaped holes between the centre cylinder bores it is a 1938 engine.
If the top opening is triangular and the bottom two holes are trapezoidal it is a 1939-42 engine.
If the top hole is triangular and the bottom two are large round holes it is a 1945-48 engine.

This should narrow it down for you. See attached photo of two different types of head gaskets showing the openings described.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Hi David,

Attached photo shows the water jacket openings I mentioned in previous post.
My '46 engines have the two large round bottom openings.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Hi David,

The divers helmet distributor still seems an anomaly on a later block. Again, who knows what gets swapped about after 75 years. Ditto the alloy manifold.

Cheers,

Just realized, I don't think a divers helmet distributor would fit a post war block.

Looking at a picture of the mounting holes on one, they would not line up with the front timing gear cover as shown in one of the previous photos. Unfortunately I haven't got one on hand to compare so am relying on photos only.

I believe it is possible to mount a later model crab distributor on an early model engine using an adaptor such as one sold by Mac's but not the other way around.

Perhaps another flathead Ford person can confirm this.

Cheers,

[Howard]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

...I believe it is possible to mount a later model crab distributor on an early model engine using an adaptor such as one sold by Mac's but not the other way around...

That is my understanding, Jacques

[Mike Cecil]

It (ie using a helmet dizzie) is if you use the earlier camshaft, but why would you? That would seem to be a backward step to me. But I suppose if that is what the assembler had to hand.

I went the other way, from a helmet to a crab dizzie with no problems: I don't remember having to use an adapter or change the timing gear cover, as I think the bolt holes lined up (but it is 20 + years ago now!)

Mike

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mike,

Attached is the 3 bolt divers helmet distributor to a crab distributor adaptor plate I mentioned.

Looking at it, and the description, a cam button spacer is needed for some stock shallow cam noses.

So perhaps the other way to use an earlier distributor on a post war engine and vice versa is to also change the timing gear cover. Again, I am not sure if this is possible so perhaps another person can enlighten us. I agree, I don't know why one would want to use a divers helmet distributor as opposed to a crab distributor on a later engine but nothing surprises me when it comes to the old engines!

So to get back to David's original question, once he inspects the water jacket openings in the block that will be the final arbiter of what approximate year his engine was manufactured. After that it will be easy to decide what, if any, items have been changed from original.

Cheers,


http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flathe...olt,25076.html

[David Nicholson]

Hey Everyone, thanks for all you input....Engine looks like a 1945 casting. There are no raised numbers on the RH front of the block. Numbers have been cast/stamped into the rear bell housing...

Anyway, my valve guide removing crowbar and 'top down' valve guide drift should be arriving any day now.

Once the valves are out, I'll remove the cam bearings for the acid dip.

Current plan is to have the engine re-bored (Currently standard), purchase new pistons. Install new std Main/conrod bearings. All crankshaft dimensions are within 0.001 of round.

Install new (single piece guides) valves, guides, etc.

I haven't measured the cam yet, but they seem quite expensive too.

The last thing will be to get my hands on some double-row 'V' belt water pumps.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Hi Mike,

Attached is the 3 bolt divers helmet distributor to a crab distributor adaptor plate I mentioned.

Looking at it, and the description, a cam button spacer is needed for some stock shallow cam noses.

So perhaps the other way to use an earlier distributor on a post war engine and vice versa is to also change the timing gear cover. Again, I am not sure if this is possible so perhaps another person can enlighten us. I agree, I don't know why one would want to use a divers helmet distributor as opposed to a crab distributor on a later engine but nothing surprises me when it comes to the old engines!

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flathe...olt,25076.html

The Ford Manuals describe the method to interchange the "Diver's Helmet" and "Crab" distributors. The two timing covers are interchangable, and are the same height from the block to the dizzy mounting surface. 18-6019B has the 3 bolt mounting pattern for the Divers Helmet (and earlier) distributors, and 21A6019 has the 2 bolt pattern for the Crab, the '46-on and the Thames/Lucas styles.

The Camshafts however, are different. A long cam is used with short drive key of the 3 bolt dizzy's, and a short cam with the longer drive key of the 2 bolt style. If you need to fit a "Short" 3 bolt dizzy to a "Short" cam, in addition to swapping the timing cover there is a Ford spacer. If you are fitting a "Long" Crab dizzy to an earlier "Long" cam, then the Speedway style spacer will provide the additional length.

This might be necessary in wartime if you are maintaining a fleet of LP2 Carriers or MCP trucks with the Divers Helmet dizzys, and a replacement engine of the Crab style is supplied. To maintain commonality, you might want to replace the Crab with a Divers Helmet?

IMG_7234.JPG IMG_7238.JPG

IMG_7235.JPG IMG_7236.JPG IMG_7237.JPG

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by David Nicholson

Just a quick update on my engine!

I've measured the main crankshaft bearings(2.4993") and big end journal bearings(2.138"). According to "Ford Flathead v-8 Builders Handbook 1932-1953" this puts the engine around the 1946-48.

Any thoughts from the Flathead guru's?

NOPE.

The problem with most American sources (Books or Websites) is that they refuse to acknowledge that the Ford V8 continued to be produced throughout the war years. Production did stop in the US in favour of the 6cyl, but the V8 continued to be produced (and evolve) in Canada. Most of the "New" features that the Americans received in '46 models were the results of Canadian development and production. Don't believe the Yank "Fake News"!

Your crank dimensions are entirely consistant with the with the 1939-45 239ci 99A that is the correct engine for the Ford Blitz.

Any progress on finding a stamped engine number, not a casting number?