Two Kettenrads

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Chris. Robert

[Ed Storey]

I believe that perception is key, no-one goes to an art museum to see mouldy artwork on rotted canvasses so why would the public want to see dilapidated military vehicles that are falling apart in a military museum? I have travelled extensively in Europe (on my own dime) and the national museums over there have dropped this antiquated display method in favour of restored vehicles which I feel shows a respect for the artefacts. This respect is in turn passed on to the viewing public who realize that they are not looking at unkempt metal but respected historic items.

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No rusty junk in the Panzer Museum in Munster.

[Russ Gregg]

James, it was a pleasure to meet you today, I really enjoyed seeing it in person and also the pictures of your extensive reconstruction of this unique vehicle. Thank you for making the effort to bring it to the Aquino event.

[Bruce MacMillan]

Here we see the oft blurred line between "museum" and "collector" quality.
Museums should preserve and display artifacts as found. This gives a item provenance. People often think that a item rebuilt to be as new is what museums want. Talk to any curator at the CWM or IWM and you'll find the history is more important than how it looks.

There is a need for both camps. Rebuilt vehicles are needed for living history displays. These venues can be taken to the public and give some idea of working items of that era. One of the biggest and popular is the Living History area of W&P.

The public there doesn't know that the German panzer is actually a FV432 chassis made up to look the part. But we are all entertained.

[James P]

^ I have to totally disagree with just about everything you are stating that museums should get a pass at doing restoration work and display a artifact/vehicle incorrectly because that is now its "history". I have heard that eye rolling line at the CWM and just think it is a an easy out and excuse.

[Bruce MacMillan]

Originally Posted by James P

^ I have to totally disagree with just about everything you are stating.

I take it you are responding to my comments.

The people that run the museums are professionals in their field. They follow standard practice & guidelines when dealing with exhibits. They are not in the hobby of restoring things.

You will notice my second paragraph said there is room for both camps. An example of leave alone is the LRDG Chev 30CWT at the IWM in London. It is displayed as found in the desert including rust & flat tires. The exhibit tells a story.

A great example of restoration is Rob Love's work on the cadillac. It also tells a story that can be brought to the people.

The point I was trying to make was that museums are a place where people can go to research or study original artifacts. If items are restored or modified then what happens to any historical significance?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bruce MacMillan

The people that run the museums are professionals in their field.

The point I was trying to make was that museums are a place where people can go to research or study original artifacts. If items are restored or modified then what happens to any historical significance?

Ah, but professional at what? Certainly not the details of the artifacts themselves (they often haven't a clue how they were used or in what context). No, the artifacts are there to tell a historical tale, and even that has taken on a whole new meaning in recent years. It used to be the tale of kings and generals in the formation of nations and in great military or political events. Now it is quite different. Historians will tell you history is all about giving voice to those oppressed people in history who had none. Therefore it is no longer about generals and kings, it's about the overlooked stories of those who had these momentous events swirling about them.

In any event, museum professionals feel they are at their best when they take a single 'significant' artifact, say a shoe, place it in a nicely back lit glass case and invite museum patrons to gaze upon it and say "...uhhhh...I feel deep emotion..."

As to the restoration of artifacts, I really am of two minds. Greek pottery is not displayed in shards as found, it's pieced together. I guess there is a point where something is so far gone it cannot give the observer any sense of what it was like in life. Rob's ambulance may be one in that category.

In New Orleans there is the universally acclaimed best American WW2 museum. It has two parts, the first being in the camp of introspection and has its share of those infamous back lit glass cases. They invite you to sit in a fake train car where you take on the persona of a WW2 participant (I declined that part) and, as with the CWM, I found a good number of errors in their artifact descriptions. The second part is a cavernous building with restored vehicles (Sherman, Stewart, Jeep, etc.), and restored aircraft (B-17, Avenger, Corsair, etc) suspended from the ceiling with elevated walkways allowing you to get right up close to them. Given the state of vehicles and aircraft that have been modified and left to the weather, there's no way the museum could have displayed them as found.

[Jason Ginn]

Originally Posted by James P

^ I have to totally disagree with just about everything you are stating that museums should get a pass at doing restoration work and display a artifact/vehicle incorrectly because that is now its "history". I have heard that eye rolling line at the CWM and just think it is a an easy out and excuse.

Gord, As somone who directly benefited from the CWM's preservation of this artefact I'm a little surprised that you are implying the staff fed you a line concerning the long term preservation of objects, especially in an area originally intended as open storage space and not a formal display.

I'm not going to drone on about museum priorities, budgets, political pressures, stakeholders etc. But they often override many internal and external desires and drives to improve complex artefacts.

The key for any museum is and always will be non intrusive preservation and stabilization. Inrervention, especially Restoration is often only considered if interpretation of the object is not possible in its current state. The Kkrad at the CWM is in much the same state as when it was received, missing parts yes, incorrect paint yes, but neglected , deteriorating at an unacceptable rate-no.

Something that also may be considered is the fact that Axis light prime movers/ utility vehicled are pretty low on the long list of significant artefacts housed in the national collection needing additional labour, funds and interpretation.

I full well understand that the axe grinders would be chirping just as loudly if the same pieces were inaccessible and hidden away in closed storage.

I haven't directed this at the OP as he knows this full well as a member of the museum in questions internal structure. As Such he is also aware of the process to have an artefact conserved or restored and has been apart of many such projects.

If people are willing to lobby the CWM, the Friends of the CWM and Fenderal Gov't I am sure that they would be responsive to fund-raising initiatives and listen to the masses that would like to see this object improved.
If that was the intent of the OP super, but you may have wanted to say that in your first post.

Please note I am no longer with the CWM. I just have an opinion because I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night. Oh and I'm also the guy that fed Gord the eye rolling line years back.

[Jordan Baker]

Jason you always make me laugh.

[James P]

Originally Posted by Jason Ginn

Oh and I'm also the guy that fed him the eye rolling line years back.

Don,t go taking credit for that eye rolling statement as it never came from you, but from your superiors at the CWM and I shall stand by my belief that is a easy out /excuse. And to imply I "directly benefited" from the CWM Kettenkrad is rather rich also, but yes that line is indeed eye rolling so you can feel free to own that one.

[James P]

Originally Posted by Russ Gregg

James, it was a pleasure to meet you today, I really enjoyed seeing it in person and also the pictures of your extensive reconstruction of this unique vehicle. Thank you for making the effort to bring it to the Aquino event.

Thank you Russ, the day, the weather, and displays went well and many folks got to see the kett first hand and ask a million a one questions.