LP2a SAR restoration

[Phillip]

I've been collecting carrier parts and hulls for a few years with the intention of starting a restoration once the FGT was finished. Unfortunately for the FGT project, this hull turned up courtesy of an old friend and the opportunity for a very complete and original project was too tempting for me to let pass by.

I'm not sure of the actual numbers produced by SAR but I am guessing that the hull is late production with the tool rack on the back and the serial number being in the early 4'000's.

[Matt Stephenson]

Hi Phillip,

That's a really nice looking LP2A you have there to begin with. It should save you a lot of time try to source parts as it looks relatively complete. I'm intrigued by the cover located on the left side rear compartment. Most LP2A's only had that feature on the drivers side rear as an armoured cover for the No.19 wireless set. Similar arrangements for armour covers we added to the left side on mortar carriers.... I'd love to see more pics of your hull when you have a chance.

Regards.

[Darrin Wright]

Hi Phillip,

that is indeed a BGC 3" Mortar Carrying version (the same as mine) as Matt has indicated.
Can we get some interior pics of the back right interior corner (base plate mounting), fittings on both interior sides rear compartment, any air scoop brackets and anything else that is slightly different.
Any sign of it having handrails in the rear?

A top view pic of the ammunition cover, curious if it is a left or right cover.

Nice and complete vehicle to start with, don't blame you for placing the FGT on the back burner

Regards

[Wayne Henderson]

Very nice, if only you could find a 3"mortar to go with it
I still have a few SAR bits left over if you need something expensive.

[Matt Stephenson]

Hey Wayne,

You have about as much chance of aquiring a 3" mortar as you do of sumbling across a herd of Unicorns. My recommendation would be to take lots of pics and measurements of a real one, and try to replicate as much as you can, in either steel or plastic. If its going to be for display purposes only, then plastic should suffice, and there is little chance of it being operational, which helps keep the authorities happy......especially in this day and age.

Darrin has made an excellent replica of the base plate for the 3" mortar, and under a coat of paint most people would be hard pressed to pick it from an original. The aiming apparatus for the mortars do appear on ebay from time to time too. All together it wouldnt be a insurmountable challange to produce a replica that looks quite convincing without all the hassles of permits and safe storage that would come with owning a genuine one.

Just my 2 cents.....

Regards.

[Phillip]

Whilst the hull is intact and the floor in brilliant condition, it amazing how many parts are not there. Fortunately, I've got a lot of bits on the shelf so I'm only chasing some small stuff, (Wayne - I'll sort through your pile and take it off your bill).

I've spent the last few days sorting through my pile of wiring conduit and ended up with a full set of original conduit where all the joiners match those already in the carrier.

I have to thank Rick Davies for the technique in getting the conduit apart after 70 years - one bottle on MAP gas, a few hours work and here we are (For the observant you'll notice that I have two pipes around the wrong way.) I only have to make two 3/4 pipes out of some of the spare pipe and its complete.

Yes, it is a 3" Mortar Carrier, photos are attached as requested. The cover is the nearside (left) cover as the brackets are spaced differently on the offside (right). No sign of any handrails having been fitted.

Unfortunately no engine cover came with it, so I'd very much appreciate some drawings/ dimensions for the brackets fitted to the cover to secure the mortar.

I'm off to tend to my unicorns.

[Sean Mayo]

Hi Phillip,

very nice and complete carrier, looking forward to seeing your restoration.
Why do I have the feeling next time we visit, there will be a 3in mortar at your place.
Hi Wayne, do I need any of your very expensive parts for my SAR carrier?
Hope you both had a Great Christmas and New years.

regards Sean and Wayne.

[Wayne Henderson]

Hi Sean, Greetings
Not much left now as Phil as been in my shed again.
Heaps of wheels and springy things off a SAR carrier.
Drop by next time you're around this way.

[Paul Dutton]

Originally Posted by Matt Stephenson

Hey Wayne,

You have about as much chance of aquiring a 3" mortar as you do of sumbling across a herd of Unicorns. My recommendation would be to take lots of pics and measurements of a real one, and try to replicate as much as you can, in either steel or plastic. If its going to be for display purposes only, then plastic should suffice, and there is little chance of it being operational, which helps keep the authorities happy......especially in this day and age.

Darrin has made an excellent replica of the base plate for the 3" mortar, and under a coat of paint most people would be hard pressed to pick it from an original. The aiming apparatus for the mortars do appear on ebay from time to time too. All together it wouldnt be a insurmountable challange to produce a replica that looks quite convincing without all the hassles of permits and safe storage that would come with owning a genuine one.

Just my 2 cents.....

Regards.

Funny enough, I happen to be picking up a 3" mortar soon!
Also a 6 pounder and 2' mortar! All go BANG at the correct ends too!

[Matt Stephenson]

Hi Paul,

All I can say is that you're fortunate enough to live somewhere that doesn't have draconian gun laws and restrictions. Most states in Australia wont permit the private ownership of a mortar of any description, even if it is deactivated. Similarly most that were in private ownership have been surrendered to the government and now such things can only be found in museums and a few private owners who are fortunate enough to have been given a special permit or a armouers licence. In NSW you cant own a mortar, anti tank gun, artillery or a anti aircraft gun unless is is completely deactivated, on permanent display to the public, and the authorities have given you a permit to do all the above.
Like I said......draconian.

Don't get me started on the silly requirements for having a plastic, non-firing replica.

So in this part of the world things like 3"mortars tend to be very rare, hence the unicorn analogy.

More importantly, Phillip has a great looking LP2A mortar carrier, which once restored will look great, and would only be enhanced further by the addition of a 3" mortar stowed on/in it.

[Paul Dutton]

And I thought the weapons laws here were bad!
These are all blank firing.
The law is stupid, I've always said it will NEVER stop criminals from obtaining weapons.
I've been collecting firearms for over 20 years, and trust me, been offered some very dodgy scruff.
Take the sten gun, I'm an engineer, I could knock one up in a day or so! Mortar, just a tube with firing pin in base!
12g shotgun out of two pieces of steel tube . . . . Etc
Yep, the laws are crazy, I do feel for you guys.

[Phillip]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Wayne's Chev Six Seater truck is looking brilliant and despite Waynes parts raiding comments, I did not leave with anything carrier related - one day his zombie carrier will LIVE.......

Cleaning and restoring small parts continue, this is novel for me and I'm looking forward to being able to assemble this as a big 'kit' when the hull gets sandblasted.

I pulled the Bakelite junction disc thingy out of its cover, unfortunately the steel screws had rotted and swelled, breaking the disc into many pieces. After a clean I realised that I was missing some pieces and had to sift through the rubbish to find the bits I'd inadvertatly swept up.

I still have to work out how they were sealed against the weather and make up some 0BA posts to hold the cover to the base.

[Phillip]

Spent the weekend alternating between family duties, mowing lawns and still more cleaning of the original electrical conduit.

The West Australian climate (or something else) has done wonders for the rubber coated wire, with some of it being melted and stuck to the tubes so removing it has been fun (especially the long tube to the nearside lamp).

Most the conduit is now cleaned of rust and rubber. Every piece of conduit had traces of black on the outside and inside there were trades of red primer ( I assume red lead) so I've used a red oxide primer.

I need to cut down some pipes but cannot find the correct thread for the conduit - at 16TPI for both the 3/4" & 1" it looks like it is UNF but I cannot find any pipe thread cutters in UNF - any suggestions?

I found a carrier light circuit breaker and ignition resister in amongst the FGT parts. I pulled it apart and cleaned it up but the manual does not give any tests - does anyone know how to test these?

[Lynn Eades]

Phillip, The conduit threads are just that. The answer is to find an old electrician with a set of B.S.Conduit dies. I found a set over here on Trademe quite easily.
3/4" o.d. is the same tpi as UNF (3/4"x 16) but i'm guessing your wanting to run a thread on 1" conduit which is also 16tpi and is specific to B.S. Conduit thread.
The resistor should be fine as long as you have continuity.
If you use an original (Ford) coil, they are notorious for failing when hot. The insulation (even in a nos one) will likely have deteriorated.
They can be rebuilt in the U.S. if you are that keen.
Basically how the system works is that the Ford coil is a 4.5 volt coil.
When you first turn on the key 6 volts goes through the cold resistor to the coil.
This gives the starting h.t.voltage a boost while the battery is under load from the starter. As the resistor heats up the voltage to the coil drops down to the 4.5 volts.
If you use the Ford coil without the resistor, it will eventually burn out.
If you use a std 6 volt or indeed a 12 volt coil, bypass the resistor.

The lighting circuit breaker: If you get a short in any of the light wiring, it will rattle away (noisily) and hopefully your lights still sort of go. Basically an abnormally high current draw will open circuit the relay. It however shuts again very quickly, suppling power to the lights again(momentarily)
When this happens, turn 'em off. It needs fixing.
If power flows through it and you can physically open the points (Which probably need a gentle clean)and they close again (spring) then it will probably work?

[Phillip]

Hi Lyn,

Awesome. Thanks, I'll be running an electronic ignition and matching coil, so you've solved a conundrum for me regarding the ignition resistor.

I have continuity on the circuit breaker so no issues there but will maybe just assume that it will it will work if I ever get a short.

Thanks once again.

[Lynn Eades]

You could hook it up to a measured load, to test it?
I'm not sure what the combined wattage of the lights are, but I imagine a 1 x 100w (12 volt) bulb would set it off?
What wattage are the original headlight bulbs?
At 12 volt, they will be 6 to 24 watt bulbs x 2, plus the two tail light bulbs at a further 6 watts each? Total=60 (ish)?
A 100 watt load can't be far off?

[Euan McDonald]

more evidence of black conduit.

[Phillip]

My little bloke got over a few hurdles this weekend, he learnedly how to ride his bike without the trainer wheels and also wanted to come down the shed and give me a hand. Here he is dismantling the air cleaner elements.

Lyn, thanks for the information on the thread types - I've picked up both the 3/4" and 1" BSC dies out of the UK. When they arrive I'll be able to finish the wiring conduit.

Still cleaning and painting lots of small parts. Very satisfying to see the pile of rust shrinking and the pile of green metal growing.

[Phillip]

Keith Hudson came down to visit over the long weekend for a holiday and to impart his knowledge on pulling apart the suspension.

I helped to run a 'Fun Run' for the Mens Resource Centre on Australia Day and worked on Friday, so it did not turn into a long frenzy of carrier restoration so we only got to tackle the suspension late on Saturday afternoon.

The bogies on my carrier were of some random scrap carrier, so I chose to tackle the bodgies of the spare carrier which is known to come from drier climes.

Our first problems arrived in taking the nuts off the axles, as the first axles started to spin. I found the big spanner and stopped the axle from turning and with the aid of a long bar, got the nuts off.

Expecting to be swinging on the sledge hammer to bash the axles out over a few hours, I could tell that Keith was almost in tears as each axle easily came out the way the they are supposed to.

With some time left, we tackled removing the springs. I must admit that this was a job I was not planning on doing just yet as after listening to all the horror stories, I was anticipating much colourful language.

So imagine my surprise when, about an hour after pulling the bogies into the shed, we had them all in pieces. The hardest part was actually removing the nuts fom the rods and we only had to cut one rod (and only then because I was impatient).

A big thanks to Keith for imparting your knowledge and manpower

[Ron Pier]

I did puzzle over your pictures until I saw your location......Now I get it Ron

[Phillip]

Thanks Ron,

If experiencing difficulty in viewing, remove head from shoulders and re-attach at the desired angle.

Strange - photos are the right way up on the iPad but get rotated when posted.

It's all related software so probably connected to the same glitch that enables us antipodeans to pay more than those of you in the Northern hemisphere for the same products through iTunes

[Dave Mills]

Had the same problem; are you using an Apple IPad? If so, once photo goes on MLU it rotates it 180 deg. Problem solved, take photo with mobile send photos to self, save and then upload onto MLU.
Dave.

[Phillip]

Cheers Dave,

Its a little frustrating. My normal process is to take the photos on the iphone, email them to my self, save them to the iPad, then attaching them. Sometimes they still rotate. Arrrrrgggh

Today's efforts - Yep you are right - it rotates everything 180 degrees. I rotated the last photo in the the picture gallery from the right way up to - the right way up and it came out the right way when attached. I suspect there is a setting in my phone that locks the rotation? I'll continue the experiment.

Today's progress, I picked up a 1 1/8" rattle gun socket, got home early, wife and kids were out so I went down the shed to de-stress. Removed the rear bogie rod nuts, axle, wheel and springs. The other side is frozen, so expecting a little more resistance when I get to it.

[Phillip]

With thanks to Lyn for information on the conduit threads, it did not take long to find both dies on the net. These arrived on Friday but I did not have the right sized die holder. I borrowed a 2" holder and after a few minutes on the lathe was in business.

The conduit out to the tail lights is now complete. I did have this going through the gap above the gearbox, but fortunately checked my original photos and realised it goes behind the seat back. I note the cleaver use of joiners in the original conduit to let you instal it in sections and feed the wire through as you go.

Only a few more broken bolts to remove and a bit of panel beating and it's off to the sandblasters. Yay.

And I thînk I've sorted out this photo rotation business.....

Nope, they still randomly rotate

[Matt Stephenson]

Hi Phillip,

Your making great progress there. Looking forward to seeing your hull sandblasted and painted. Great work on the conduit too. Seeing how you've done the conduit will help me when I finally get around to doing the conduit in mine. Following this with great interest.

[Phillip]

Thanks Matt,

How is your carrier going? Are you going to use original or modern conduit? If original, let me know if you are missing any bits.

With yours being a very early SAR carrier, the conduit for the tail lights might go up through the big cut out above the gearbox.

Phillip

[Matt Stephenson]

Hi Phillip,

Ive got original conduit from the front drivers/gunners compartment, and thats about it. If you've got any surplus to your needs I'd be very interested. When you have a chance can you please PM me.
As for my hull, still slowly working away on it, trying to get it ready for sandblasting and paint at the end of February.

Cheers.

[Phillip]

Work and the property has kept me pretty busy over the past weeks so not much progress.

When I've had the chance, I've been alternating between pulling down the suspension and misc small tasks.

After a little hunting around, I found a cloth wire that looks close to the faded samples that I have, the original could have been either yellow, tan or this brown colour. I liked the brown colour so went with that.

I've filled in a few evenings by finding all the correct BA screws (this has been challenging and in the end they have had to come out of the UK) and finishing the dash panel.

One concession I had to make was the toggle switches which are new however the toggles are as near a new exact match for the originals whilst the Bakelite switches and plug are all originals, as is the Ford dash.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

You're doing a great job on that Carrier, Phillip.

Originally Posted by Phillip

One concession I had to make was the toggle switches which are new however the toggles are as near a new exact match for the originals

Any info available on make & model and where to buy them?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Phillip]

Hi Hanno,

Switches are made by Cole Hersee part number - M-493.

The toggle length matches the ones used on the LP2a dash but is shorter than that used on the Ford CMP dash.

Hope this helps.