How To: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car US Ordnance number 7373

[motto]

I agree with Lynn though it's easy for me to say with my large accumulation of assorted junk. Some scrap angle iron or water pipe and four solid steel wheels along with a little cutting and welding and you're in business.

Dave

[Big D]

Hi Lynn and Dave,

Thanks for the replies. That's not the answer I was hoping you would give me though.....

Okay, I might have to rethink the plan on how to attack this. I don't want to undo all the good work on those axles and the diffs.

I'll see what I can come up with and let you know.

[lynx42]

Darryl, have you thought about an old tandem axle boat trailer? I have used one to move some heavy bits around. It can be towed by your own vehicle to the blasters and when at the sandblasters, they could use a forklift with a towball on one of the lifting tynes to both move it around and lift or tilt it up to blast underneath.
The open frame of the boat trailer means not too many places would be missed in the blasting and painting stages.

Regards Rick.

[Lynn Eades]

Rick, The few companies I have used over the years have had trestles to put large items on for blasting. I'm guessing the problem is transporting the hull to the blasters.
Darryl I have taped and wrapped assemblies in the past in preparation for blasting, only to be amazed at how far and how much that sand gets in. A bit like A.P. ammo worms its way into mechanical assemblies, if you have ever seen the results.

[Big D]

Hi Rick and Lynn,

Yes, I was looking at it more from the perspective of the added expense and hassle of having to use a truck with a crane to get it there and back. The blasters do have a seperate yard where they can put the hull on trestles, so the access to it will be good.

It's not a big deal in terms of a change in my plans. I will still go ahead and complete all the axles and spring assemblies. Then they will be ready for when the hull comes back and I can mount the hull straight onto them.

The blasters actually do my painting as well so what I'll do is get the hull fully completed with floor etc done, so that it can be blasted, primed and painted in one go.

Thanks for the ideas. Several heads are better than one and it certainly helps you get your plans right.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Attached are a few more photos of some work done in the last couple of days, as well as some parts I need to blast and paint. I’m at the point where in between other jobs I need to get some of these parts painted in their final colour so that they can be bolted in once the hull is back from blasting and painting.

I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere else on these forums but I’m after confirmation of the paint colour on the various hull parts and internals on the M8. I have accumulated many photographs of restored M8s and have noted quite a few differences in paint colour on various items between different M8’s. As an example, I have an uncut 37mm gun mount which I was told came out of an unrestored M8. However, it appears to have original white paint on it and I haven’t seen any others with a white gun mount.

This is the list I’ve come up with so far and the colours and variations I’ve noted. You’ll see that I have seen both olive drab and white colouring on some parts:

• hull inner walls - white
• hull floor - olive drab
• turret inner walls - olive drab
• turret seats - olive drab?/white?
• turret seat frame - olive drab?/white?
• turret hold down roller covers- white
• traverse gear - white
• 37mm gun - olive drab
• 37mm gun mount - olive drab?/white?
• 37mm gun parts - olive drab
• 37mm ready racks - olive drab
• 37mm spare parts box - white
• .30 cal spare parts box - white
• oddments container - white
• binocular container - white
• grenade boxes - white
• flare box - white
• turret support rollers - white
• ring gear - olive drab?/white?
• water can - olive drab
• fire extinguisher bracket - olive drab?/white?
• Driver and co-driver seats - olive drab?/white?
• water can bracket - olive drab?/white?
• hydrovac - white


Does anyone have any comment either way on what I’ve recorded so far? I’d like to get the paint colour right first time.

Thanks.

[Big D]

The rest of the photos.

[lynx42]

Hi Darryl,

Seems to be a lot of parts for sale overseas. Try this link for many parts up for auction.

https://www.troostwijkauctions.com/u...2-22698-23047/

Regards Rick.

[Big D]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for that. Yes, I have a contact over there who is going to the auction and will bid for me. It is just my luck that I only need a handful of items in one lot, a few in another lot and one or two parts in the third lot!

I'm not sure how far the finances will stretch but we will see.

It would be fantastic to be present at this auction and the tank museum auction in Normandy.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Just a quick update showing some work done in the last few weeks.

I am still awaiting the axle housings to come back from the blasters. I have new diff carrier bearings, pinion shaft oil seals and bearings, and axle oil seals to go into the housings.

All the hubs have been cleaned up and primed. Interestingly, there was a mix of original US, French and Italian wheel bearings. One of the US ones was a little rough but I think I will get away with it considering the limited use this vehicle will get. The torsion bar, torque rods and steering U joints have also been cleaned up and are ready to fit/paint.

In between time, I have fully restored the turret seats. These were painted white on OD and the remnants of the black lettering for ‘CARBINE’ was still there under the white paint. The seat towers required some new spring retainers at the bottom of the towers which I have fabricated. All the rollers were locked up so I had to heat them up to get them off. All roll freely now. The seat pans were corroded so I removed these and replaced the corroded pieces of metal. I need to make up the padded seat bases and backs now.

With the exception of the spring I need for the sliding gear, the traverse mechanism is all set to fit. The gun mount has been cleaned up and painted, albeit in a shade I am not happy with yet. I’ll tidy that up later.

I have started work on the hatches. The hull has one of the front hatches fitted and I have two hatches to choose from for the other side. I started removing the frozen visor parts off these today and I am still working out which hatch to fit. One is rougher than the other one but has some hinges on it that I think I can work with. The other one is tidier overall but needs both hinges fabricated.

The visor assemblies need to be completely rebuilt on both the front hatch already fitted and the one I am going to fit. What a battle to get those little nuts off that had corroded. I need to fit new studs and spacers for the straps and fabricate the locking pin assembly.

At some stage, someone has stripped the hull of its original top hatches by cutting a square around each hinge. I have two top hatches to replace the missing ones. One of these has been removed from another hull by cutting horizontally right across the width of the hatch under both hinges, so I can shape the metalwork around the hinge mounts on this one to fit the cut outs on the hull fairly easily. The other hatch has been really knocked around with the mounting plate and hinges all twisted. I had to cut the hinges off that and will have to straighten them or rebuild them before I can fit that hatch.

I have a few questions about the hull and the hatches.

• I will need to fabricate new visors and straps for the side ports on the hull. Are these side visors and straps etc, all the same size as the port assemblies in the front hatches?

• Has anyone rebuilt the locking pin assembly for the visors? Alternatively, has anyone stripped one and has photos?

• Has anyone rebuilt the rotating handle on the top hatches? This seems like it would have had some sort of spring loading in the mount and an indent on the end so it would lock in the folded up position and in the 90 degrees position. Am I correct with that? Mine just have the remnants of the handle rusted into the mount so I need to start from scratch with them.

Thanks.

[Big D]

More pictures.

[Big D]

Pictures of the hull and hatches.

[Big D]

Last of the pictures of the hull and hatches.

[Big D]

Hi all,

It’s been a few weeks since I posted any progress reports on the M8 so here are a few pictures of some work I’ve been doing.

I’ve spent a lot of time on the hull, removing old broken bolts, cleaning out mounting holes, re-tapping threads where necessary, and cutting and grinding off the odd post-war mount.

I’ve removed the first section of the armoured floor. As you can see from the photos, the remnants of the original floor are still in place around the sides of the hull and the first cross member. I’m going to remove the rest of the armoured floor so I can clean out all those old rusty bits and pieces. I have a second-hand original front floor coming from Belgium but this won’t be here until Xmas. I’m not sure how much of the outside of that has been cut off and it will need repair to a few places but I’m hoping that it will be better than what I’ve got here. If not, I’ll go back to the armoured floor.

I’ve fabricated some new mounts for storing the headlights at the foot of the hull by the co-driver’s feet. I still need to make up the spring plate that sits in the mount and holds the light base in place in the mount.

I tidied up the top hatch mounts and started tacking them in place. One hatch needed the hinges removed altogether from what was left of the cut off mounts and straightened with a bit of heat. The other side still had part of the cut-away hull plate attached to the hinges so I have cut that piece to size to fit into place on the hull and tacked it in. I’ll fill in the joints the next time I’m in the workshop.

The driver’s front hatch is now in place and I’ll finish welding the hinges in next week. I had two hatches to choose from. This one has a bit of bullet damage to the front but the hinge mounts were in much better shape than the other, so I decided to use this one. The bullet damage will be a conversation starter anyway…

My father in law has fabricated new handles and mounts for the underside of the top hatches. It took us a while to work out how these were designed but the finished product looks quite good. These are now fitted to the top hatches.

I’ve fabricated some new visor/pistol port slides for the front hatches and side ports, using the existing pieces as templates. I have one good working retracting spring plunger and another that I should be able to get going. I also found two modern spring plungers which look similar to the originals. These have a knurled handle as well but are a bit smaller than the originals. While they won’t look quite right, they will do until an original hopefully turns up one day. Does anyone have any spare originals?

I’ve also replaced some of the original studs for mounting the slide levers.

I am working on the top hatch locking arms which hold the top hatches in the horizontal position. One had been removed from a hull at some stage and the mechanism was completely frozen. Despite lots of penetrant, some heat, plus a little bit of encouragement from a press, it refused to budge. As you can see I had to be a little surgical and get access to the mechanism by removing a strip of metal from the top. Penetrant was never going to do it! Once I have got it all working again, I’ll lengthen the activating rod and weld the top strip back in again. I’ll repair the other locking arm in situ.

The shovel and axe mounts, rear tow cable mount and siren mount are fitted along with a handful of footman loops I had.

The spring latch that sits on the glacis on the front of the hull for the two front hatches is repaired and ready to be welded on.

One mine rack has been repaired and ready to fit (thanks for the measurements Sly). The other one is being fabricated along with the missing top hatch handle and front hatch lever/handle.

The guys in the engineering shop are going to see if they can straighten the headlight guards. The ones I’ve got are pretty beaten up so it may be a case of starting afresh with them, and the bends in them are not something I can create.

[Big D]

More photos.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Here a few progress photos along with a quick update.

The hatches are on now but I am still working on the hatch locking levers. The one that was still on the hull is being as stubborn as the other, and is seized. I did the same as the other side and cut a piece out of the top so I could access the workings, without removing it from the hull. I freed up the latch itself but the actuating rod (the one you pull to release the hatch) is seized into the sleeve in the side of the hull so I am still working on that. The hatch locking lever on the driver side is now fitted, although I haven’t yet finalised the actuating rod on that either.

The mine racks are now fitted to the hull and I’ve fitted a strip of folded steel on the left side of the hull for the tool locker mounts. I’ve also fabricated some new mounts for the protectoscope boxes and drilled out a lot of the broken bolts around the hull and tapped new threads where necessary. A lot of the captive nuts around the hull are history, so I need to work out what to do with those.

I removed what was left of the rear of the original floor. The cross member below that looks to be in pretty good shape. As you can see, there are still some remnants of the original front floor under the armoured floor. The sheet front floor I have coming arrives in 3 weeks so I will look at that piece before deciding what I do with the front floor.

Can anyone give me some dimensions and close-up photos of the mounts for the engine cover support rods? These have been removed at some point. I get the impression that the mount has an angle greater than 90 degrees, but it is hard to determine. I thought with a 90 degree bracket, the angle of the hull mightn’t set the support rods up high enough. Can anyone confirm this for me please?

There are the remnants of a bracket near the floor on the co-driver side, as per the photo. Does anyone know what this bracket was for? Am I right in saying this was for a Signal Projector? What is that, exactly?

[Big D]

A few more photos.....

[Big D]

Hi all,

I was asked about progress on the M8 so this is just a quick update.

For the last week or so I’ve been working my way through a pile of parts that I have had arrive from Europe for the project, cleaning them up and priming etc. I have the fuel line covers, rear engine mounts, fan shrouds and tunnels, some piping for the engine bay, oil breather, gaskets, clutch disc, protectoscopes and boxes, gearstick housing, shock absorbers, etc.

I got the front floor piece I was waiting on. While it is heavily corroded in some places, the diff bulge and stampings and steering box hole are all in one piece. I figure we can cut out these good pieces and weld them into a new piece of folded sheet metal. There should be enough left of the rear piece of the floor I previously removed to shape the rear of this front floor piece. I could have got away with the front armoured floor but it had to be repaired in places and a new diff bulge fabricated anyway, so this will give it more of an original look.

I received two gearshift housings, levers and pins etc and noted some differences. One of the pins is a nice fabrication and just needs the two holes drilled for the couplings. I see there is a difference in the angles of the gearsticks though. At first I thought the one in red primer was a fabrication, but there are some numbers stamped on the small plate at the bottom, so I’m presuming it is an original piece. The other gear stick with the gear knob on it is an original piece – it has its number stamped into the metalwork.

As you can see, there is a substantial difference in the angle of the gearsticks. I’ve tried both in place in the housings and the one that isn’t primed (the original?) is angled very sharply to the rear when the gearstick is to the rear in second or fourth gear.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Big D]

Some more photos.

[David Herbert]

Gear shift: It looks to me like the unpainted one had been modified by someone with short arms that wanted the gear knob further back. That prevented the latch working as designed and it fouled the fingers of the gate so both were removed. I just see it as a bodge but you are fortunate to have the good ones (the ones in primer).

As for the front floor I think that you will be making a new one and just sectioning the diff bulge from the one in the photos into it. It wouldn't be too difficult to press the ribs into the new one but to section new metal into the rusty one would need huge amounts of welding that would make it very hard to avoid warping and general distortion, quite apart from the work involved.

I must say that it is great to see someone doing such a thorough and profesional job on an M8. You will be amply rewarded when you drive it - great fun.

David

[Big D]

Hi David,

Thanks for the post and sorry about the delay in replying.

You could be right about the gear stick. I think it will be a case of trial and error, and I'll see which one works best. The one in primer does seem to feel right but we will see.

As for the floor...well, we sort of did what you suggested, as you will see below.

Thanks for the compliment. I think we are getting there!

[Big D]

Hi all,

Just a short update on progress on the M8.

I had some OD paint mixed up by a local vehicle paint specialist, using a Lustreless OD sample provided by Midwest Military. The paint supplied by the local company was a two pack with paint and hardener, with a matting agent in the paint to give it a flat look.

I got some of the painted parts back and the painter and I learnt an interesting lesson in the application of paint with matting agents in it. As you can see, some of the parts have a semi-gloss look to it, while others have the correct flat look. The painter worked out that the best way to apply the paint was by way of a ‘dusting’. When he painted some of the parts like he would have painted a car, layering the paint on a bit heavier, then it came out shinier. I’ve also since heard that too much hardener can have this effect. The finish on the brake backing plate as pictured is bang-on compared to the paint sample I had, so I am happy with the mix. We’ll just have to monitor the application and finish.

We started working on the front floor yesterday. As you will recall, I had two options; one was to tear the armoured floor out and fabricate a new sheet metal floor using the bulge and a couple of other parts from the old floor piece I bought in Europe. Option 2 was to leave the armoured floor in place and build it up again to what it would have looked like.

In the end, I have gone with a combination of both. I had already taken out the rear part of the armoured floor as the welds had fractured and needed cleaning up and re-welding. We have used what we could off the old part of the floor which was the diff bulge and spigot for the steering box shaft and the mount for the foot accelerator pedal. We have aligned everything as it should be and are in the process of stitch welding the remnants of the old floor onto the underside of the armoured floor.

We have also created a flange to go around the top of the floor around the join between the bulge and the armoured floor. We will mig weld around this to create a seam and then use a sealer to seal it off underneath. It should look nice and tidy once I clean the welding up with a flap disc.

I figured there was just too much time and cost involved in gouging out the armoured floor, cleaning up the hull and then recreating almost from scratch a new sheet metal floor with the bulge placed into it.

I'll post some more pictures next week after we've finished the welding.

[Andrew Rowe]

Hi Darryl , the flatning agent in paint can also separate from the main colours, so stirring well mechanically is well advised. I am using 150% flatning agent, and have noticed the same effect, Cheers Andrew.

[Lynn Eades]

Andrew, I assume 15%? Btw, you can edit your post.

[Big D]

Hi Andrew and Lynn

Thanks for that. Yes, I know the painter won't be caught out like that again. Interesting how much contrast one can get from the same tin of paint, with the parts being sprayed at the same time!

[Tony Smith]

I've found with paints that contain a flattening agent, that they can be porous and not offer much corrosion protection. A way to counter this is the apply the first coat heavy (to hell with the gloss!) to achieve a a solid film thickness, then use a second (or third) coat to master the light application for a flatter finish.

[Big D]

Hi Tony,

Yes, that makes good sense. I will let the painter know that.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Here are a few more photos of the progress on the floor and rear wall of the hull.

The front floor diff bulge is now in place. I debated sanding back the weld around the flange but I think it looks pretty good as it is. It may not look quite right compared with period photos, but then what was right? I’ll complete the section over the front cross member once the centre part of the floor is done and I can work out how it will all meet.

I fabricated the rear panel in the fighting compartment using some sheet metal. In the end I opted for a simple flat sheet, rather than the original’s angled pressed shape in the middle. Some heat was required to straighten the cross member in the engine bay to get the panel to sit flat. The panel should do the job and look good but I’ve yet to weld on the threaded fixing points for the grenade and flare boxes.

Using a pattern I made up from photos and measurements from the hull, I cut the rear floor piece. With the aid of my engineering guys we have folded it up to the right angles of the floor. It looks like it will fit nicely, although I didn’t quite get the shape of the rearmost mounting fold right. The corners should have followed the angled sides of the hull, but overall it is not too bad so far.

I still need to cut the centre of the rear floor next and build it up to the right height and angle to meet the centre floor section. To do that though, I need to work out where it will meet the centre floor piece, so I need to get onto cutting, folding and welding that centre section up next. To that end, I could use some assistance with the dimensions of that centre piece.

I’ve attached a picture of the centre floor piece I'm going to fabricate. I’m not sure where I downloaded the the picture from now and in fact I think it is an M20 floor, but hopefully the owner doesn’t mind me using it!

Can anyone give me the dimensions of this piece please as shown on the photo? I know this section doesn’t totally follow the shape of the cross member underneath it. From what I can see it is angled to follow the shape of the cross member on the co-driver side and flat where the water jerry can will sit on the driver's side. I'm just not sure of the width and angles on this side though.

Where does the rear section of floor meet with the centre section? I like the idea of being able to remove the floor pieces so I’d like to bolt the rear and centre sections together if I can. I get the impression that they join just rearward of the cross-member, but I'd like to get confirmation of that please.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks.

[Big D]

More photos.

[Big D]

Hi all,

A few pictures added just to show the completed floor pieces.

The centre floor piece has an interesting shape to it and I figure the original manufacturing would have involved some complicated pressing. I had to get my compass out to get the folds right for some of the angles, but it is not looking bad. The fit is pretty good. Thanks for the measurements David.

I had to improvise a little at the front where the centre floor piece meets the front cross member. The front of the original centre floor piece was pressed such that it has a step at the front and I wasn’t easily able to recreate that. Also, because there was nothing useable left of the old sheet metal front floor that the centre floor piece would normally bolt down on top of, I had to make up some packers to lift the centre floor piece to the right height up off the cross member. I also had to make a small false floor for the gearstick housing mounting. I think it all looks pretty good though.

I’ve made the floor so that I can take out the centre section relatively easily. That is, the fixing points between the centre floor and rear floor pieces are on the rear floor, rather than the other way around. I’m not sure when and if removing the centre floor will be required but I figure it could be handy. With that centre floor piece coming out first, I figure the rear floor could be taken out underneath if required.

I’ve extended the front armoured floor back to the area over the front cross member, where it originally would have been. I’ve also made up a small surround around the area where the gearstick housing is. I’ve followed the original shape of the armoured floor in doing this. Most of the pictures I’ve seen of armoured front floors have a circular cut-out around the gearstick housing, but I have seen one other photograph of an armoured floor with an angled cut-out like my one has.

I don’t have the correct fixed driver seat, nor do I have the correct mount for the co-driver seat. In the end I fabricated two mounts from photographs of the originals to mount the two seats I did have. I need to get some torsion springs of the right size though for the locking plate that holds the seat back up. I don’t figure the driver’s seat will be folded back too often, and I guess you have to work with what you’ve got. I’ll keep an eye out for the correct driver’s seat and hopefully one will turn up one day.

The pictures show the seats and extinguisher mount just sitting in place for the moment. I still need to finish the drilling and tapping for the seat bases as well as drilling the holes around the sides of the floor pieces for the securing bolts.

In between time on the floor, I’ve done a few repairs on the inner and outer front guards. The inner ones are just about done now but there is some work in the outer front guards. There are some tricky folds in these and the rust appears to have developed in the hardest folds to create.

I think I’m getting there…..